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The Bell Curve explained... Shannow Send a noteboard - 26/10/2012 10:27:34 AM
With Cadsuane mid-to-high 30s, Eg/Avi/El at 40, Nynaeve at 65, etc. Androl, meanwhile, is probably around 4 or 5. I see him as similar to Morgase, only a little more powerful.

The problem with Nynaeve at 65 is that it makes zero sense. She's has about 6 women stronger than her in the entire series, and matches mid-level Foresaken strength. No way is she 65.

And given what we know about strength being a bell curve, there's no way exceptionally strong women like Moiraine are going to be below strength 50, which would be the average strength of all channelers.


Here's what we know:

We know with reasonable certainty that the spread of channeling strength from Daigian to Moiraine is about 3 fold. Meaning that Moiraine is about 3 times as strong as Daigian.

We also know that Daigian is so weak that she is barely above Accepted level (making her the absolute bottom of the Aes Sedai strength range).

So we know that the spread of channeling strength from the weakest modern day sister to the strongest category (which included Moiraine, Romanda, Lelaine, Siuan and Elaida) is 3 fold.

We also know from Siuan, that if she was at two thirds of her old strength, she would be as strong as most sisters.

This gives us the strength level of the average sister, which is two thirds of the Moiraine/Siuan level. Meaning that Moiraine was 50% stronger than the average sister.

We further know that according to Aviendha, Egwene can match or exceed the strength level of Amys plus Melaine combined. Amys is just short of Moiraine's strength, while Melaine is stronger than an average sister. Meaning that at the very least, the two of them combined are about two thirds stronger than Moiraine.

E.G.

If Dagian is a 10

It puts the average sister at 20

Moiraine at 30

Amys plus Melaine at about 50 (which then is roughly Egwene's strength level)

We further learn that Moiraine believes that Egwene plus Aviendha could approach Lanfear in strength.

What do you know. Egwene at 50, plus Aviendha at maybe 40 (she's not at her full potential yet), gives you around 90. Not quite Lanfear's strength, but very close to it.


We also know that Egwene believes that she, Romanda and Lelaine together could possibly match a male Forsaken.

Egwene at 50, plus Romanda and Lelaine each at 30, gives you 110.

What do you know, just enough to match a male Forsaken of Rand's strength level.

We see Flinn - the strongest Ashaman, plus two average sisters, match Demandred very closely. Again, what do you know, 2 average sisters at 20 strength each, plus Flinn at around 55 gives you Demandred level of around 95.

We see 5 sisters barely able to hold Logain, who is presumably around a 90 level channeler.

Even if they are all 5 weaker than average (put them at 15 strength), their shield should still be at around 75 strength. And we know that you can be weaker than someone and still hold them shielded if they aren't embracing the source. So a strength of 75 is pretty much spot on to be borderline between what Logain could break free from.

The examples go on and on.

Together it makes a pretty much irrefutable case that the Bell Curve can only fit if the average strength female is around Egwene's level and all modern Aes Sedai fall well below average.

The conclusion is that the Bell Curve applies to the channeling population of the Age of Legends, at which time Egwene would have been an average strength channeler at exactly half the strength of the strongest possible woman.

And all modern Aes Sedai would have been considered below average by some margin. In fact, most of them would have fallen in the lowest 20% of Age of Legends channelers.

This is the only way that all the evidence fits a Bell Curve scenario.
This message last edited by Shannow on 26/10/2012 at 10:29:39 AM
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Ch2 : Pevara & Androl and channeling implications - 24/10/2012 06:40:47 PM 3074 Views
Did Perva actually initiate the link or was it Androl? *NM* - 24/10/2012 07:02:15 PM 841 Views
Androl did. *NM* - 25/10/2012 05:10:31 AM 1052 Views
But didn't Nynaeve do it first at the cleansing? - 25/10/2012 12:43:15 PM 1342 Views
Pevara was thinking on very sketchy information. - 25/10/2012 08:56:20 PM 1374 Views
did he start the link? or just take it? - 27/10/2012 07:33:49 AM 990 Views
I think it's slightly off - 28/10/2012 04:21:05 PM 1239 Views
Re: Ch2 : Pevara & Androl and channeling implications - 25/10/2012 05:13:43 AM 1554 Views
Re: Ch2 : Pevara & Androl and channeling implications - 25/10/2012 04:23:20 PM 1288 Views
Re: Ch2 : Pevara & Androl and channeling implications - 25/10/2012 09:52:03 PM 1339 Views
Travelling - 25/10/2012 08:56:41 AM 1332 Views
Yes that's a pet theory of mine - 25/10/2012 04:21:53 PM 1341 Views
Re: Yes that's a pet theory of mine - 25/10/2012 06:12:21 PM 1318 Views
Re: Yes that's a pet theory of mine - 25/10/2012 08:50:15 PM 1193 Views
Re: Yes that's a pet theory of mine - 25/10/2012 09:45:26 PM 1349 Views
Weren't there 150 or so at Maradon? *NM* - 26/10/2012 03:29:53 PM 748 Views
Re: Yes that's a pet theory of mine - 26/10/2012 08:49:58 PM 1412 Views
Perhaps, but if no on in the AoL could do it when mixed circles were common - 28/10/2012 04:22:20 PM 1108 Views
How strong Pevara is... - 25/10/2012 07:08:26 PM 1465 Views
I'm pretty sure Moiraine is closer to 30... - 25/10/2012 07:41:37 PM 1118 Views
Agreed - 25/10/2012 08:37:24 PM 1257 Views
So... the old story of ignore the bell curve, eh? - 26/10/2012 01:40:49 AM 1213 Views
No, I fully respect the bell curve - 26/10/2012 01:51:34 PM 1246 Views
That was disproved long ago... - 26/10/2012 01:36:24 AM 1262 Views
But Moiraine isn't 'exceptionally strong' - 26/10/2012 05:16:10 AM 1266 Views
Not particularly strong evidence for that last. - 26/10/2012 05:36:54 AM 1273 Views
But we know that it takes significantly more strength to maintain multiple weaves - 26/10/2012 08:14:58 AM 1200 Views
Not true - 27/10/2012 09:15:51 PM 1184 Views
Not accurate - 27/10/2012 09:31:05 PM 1129 Views
The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 10:27:34 AM 1200 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 11:40:04 AM 1183 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 12:32:01 PM 1101 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 12:48:51 PM 1244 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 01:07:39 PM 1210 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 01:18:32 PM 1320 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 01:57:18 PM 1276 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 28/10/2012 02:07:39 PM 1107 Views
Yet Sharina, Nynaeve etc exist, thus the BC is the same - 27/10/2012 09:39:58 PM 1388 Views
The curve is OBVIOUSLY the same... - 28/10/2012 01:50:37 AM 1051 Views
Re: The curve is OBVIOUSLY the same... - 28/10/2012 02:01:59 PM 1133 Views
You need to go read RJ's quotes: - 28/10/2012 02:41:49 PM 1228 Views
Re: You need to go read RJ's quotes: - 28/10/2012 05:39:12 PM 1067 Views
I need to come and save you from blatant fallacies being spouted by the loonies. - 28/10/2012 05:56:21 PM 1073 Views
This is like watching a train-wreck. - 29/10/2012 02:58:51 AM 1063 Views
Re: This is like watching a train-wreck. - 29/10/2012 01:10:35 PM 1270 Views
So what's your conclusion? - 29/10/2012 02:14:33 PM 1049 Views
His conclusion is that RJ was right about the books he wrote... - 29/10/2012 02:19:59 PM 1162 Views
Pretty much... - 30/10/2012 12:57:41 AM 1244 Views
Excellent points... - 29/10/2012 02:16:39 PM 1029 Views
Re: Excellent points... - 29/10/2012 02:47:30 PM 1217 Views
You seem confused. - 29/10/2012 03:22:47 PM 1020 Views
Re: You seem confused. - 29/10/2012 03:41:48 PM 1058 Views
I think the point is that the AS didn't go force every woman in the area - 29/10/2012 07:57:59 PM 1011 Views
Re: You seem confused. - 29/10/2012 08:23:22 PM 1228 Views
Re: You seem confused. - 29/10/2012 08:57:11 PM 1163 Views
He drew graphs! - 30/10/2012 12:49:09 AM 1064 Views
Re: He drew graphs! - 30/10/2012 07:43:54 AM 1185 Views
Re: He drew graphs! - 30/10/2012 01:57:05 PM 1096 Views
Re: Excellent points... - 30/10/2012 12:20:00 AM 1122 Views
Re: Excellent points... - 30/10/2012 07:49:57 AM 1101 Views
Re: Excellent points... - 30/10/2012 01:05:45 PM 1496 Views
Re: Excellent points... - 30/10/2012 01:25:11 PM 1131 Views
Re: Excellent points... - 30/10/2012 12:20:17 AM 1228 Views
AS recruiting is minimal - 28/10/2012 10:41:29 PM 1089 Views
Re: You need to go read RJ's quotes: - 29/10/2012 02:23:27 AM 1073 Views
Re: You need to go read RJ's quotes: - 29/10/2012 07:33:44 AM 1083 Views
Huh? - 29/10/2012 02:26:27 PM 1134 Views
Re: Huh? - 29/10/2012 02:42:07 PM 1040 Views
You don't seem to know what random means... - 29/10/2012 03:25:57 PM 1076 Views
Re: You don't seem to know what random means... - 29/10/2012 03:36:45 PM 1080 Views
Personally I just think that 1000 women being allowed to tag along is a drop - 29/10/2012 08:05:33 PM 1150 Views
Re: Personally I just think that 1000 women being allowed to tag along is a drop - 29/10/2012 09:04:02 PM 1180 Views
Geography alone can do this - 30/10/2012 12:39:53 AM 1068 Views
Re: Geography alone can do this - 30/10/2012 09:45:58 AM 1042 Views
Not really - 30/10/2012 02:49:05 PM 1026 Views
Here's why its not random... - 30/10/2012 01:04:18 AM 1042 Views
Re: Here's why its not random... - 30/10/2012 09:42:35 AM 1231 Views
Re: Here's why its not random... - 30/10/2012 01:51:03 PM 1032 Views
Re: Here's why its not random... - 30/10/2012 02:21:04 PM 1090 Views
YEah, there's no point debating this... - 30/10/2012 02:46:39 PM 1096 Views
Genetics plays a role - 30/10/2012 03:03:41 PM 1243 Views
Re: You don't seem to know what random means... - 29/10/2012 08:22:40 PM 1005 Views
Re: You don't seem to know what random means... - 29/10/2012 09:06:08 PM 1123 Views
Why must there be a mechanism? - 30/10/2012 01:06:29 AM 1040 Views
Re: Why must there be a mechanism? - 30/10/2012 09:48:16 AM 1030 Views
Nope... - 30/10/2012 01:43:56 PM 1200 Views
Re: Nope... - 30/10/2012 02:34:51 PM 1050 Views
Oh my... - 30/10/2012 02:50:12 PM 1085 Views
Thought experment time! Hurrah! - 30/10/2012 03:27:01 PM 1043 Views
But it is still possible in your example to get wildly varied results - 30/10/2012 03:30:59 PM 987 Views
Re: But it is still possible in your example to get wildly varied results - 30/10/2012 03:36:03 PM 1064 Views
LOL - 30/10/2012 04:49:06 PM 1657 Views
Re: Yet Sharina, Nynaeve etc exist, thus the BC is the same - 28/10/2012 01:39:55 PM 1079 Views
The point is there are still people being born in the highest strength categories - 28/10/2012 04:18:55 PM 1125 Views
Re: The point is there are still people being born in the highest strength categories - 28/10/2012 05:21:44 PM 1061 Views
The curve hasn't shifted! - 28/10/2012 05:39:42 PM 1211 Views
The fact is, Moiraine is not half as strong as Lanfear, hence she is below average strength. - 28/10/2012 06:02:04 PM 1103 Views
How is this fact? - 29/10/2012 02:59:49 AM 1182 Views
Re: How is this fact? - 29/10/2012 07:04:15 PM 1089 Views
Not so - 29/10/2012 08:09:29 PM 1061 Views
Re: Not so - 29/10/2012 08:43:16 PM 1170 Views
Sure it is - 30/10/2012 01:43:39 AM 1108 Views
Explain Elza-Merise-Cadsuane then... - 29/10/2012 08:20:14 PM 1071 Views
Re: Explain Elza-Merise-Cadsuane then... - 29/10/2012 08:38:11 PM 1172 Views
Are you blind man? - 30/10/2012 01:12:26 AM 1090 Views
Re: Are you blind man? - 30/10/2012 09:23:37 AM 1113 Views
Cadsuane is just below Egwene... - 30/10/2012 01:37:54 PM 1052 Views
Your strength scores don't square with the Pevara quote - 30/10/2012 03:15:22 PM 1054 Views
Re: The curve hasn't shifted! - 28/10/2012 07:36:36 PM 1080 Views
On Raw strength scores I think you are pretty inline with my thinking - 27/10/2012 09:37:25 PM 1203 Views
And the facing a Foresaken comment is out of context anyway... - 28/10/2012 01:56:12 AM 1204 Views
Excellent point on raw v. Effective strength *NM* - 28/10/2012 04:13:21 PM 747 Views

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