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Re: Here's why its not random... Tor Send a noteboard - 30/10/2012 09:42:35 AM
A good real world analogy for OP strength would be IQ. Nebulous as the very concept of IQ is, one important fact about it is that IQ also has a normal distribution. Now, if you take the IQ scores of a random population sample, it will approximate to a bell curve. But if you take a sample of "people who want to go to university", you WON'T get a bell curve.


Actually, that's probably not even true. I guess people who want to go to university also have a bell curve IQ, but probably with a higher average than the general population.

In any case, it is perfecly reasonable that high IQ is correlated with wanting to go to university. It is not perfecly reasonable that being a potentially strong channeler is correlated with wanting to become Aes Sedai, since most people don't know they can channel when they decide.

And that's the sample we have from the Rebels. A selection of people ready to give up their former lives and attach themselves to the Tower. This is NOT a random sample. In the case of Northern Altara, it worked out to there being fewer women strong enough to attain the shawl than expected (the obvious reason is RJ wanted there to be some tension about TG. The sudden addition of 600 strong channelers to the Tower would make it unreasonably strong).


So instead of choosing a self consistent approach, like for example having them recruit only 200 novices, he ignores his previous comment about the 62.5%.

Serisouly, there is no point throwing out numbers like 62.5% if he just ignores them whenever it's convenient.

Take another 1000 from there, or indeed, consider the sample we have from the Two Rivers (which is also non-random, as it was age restricted), and you get a higher than average number of women capable of being Aes Sedai (almost 100%, in fact). Take many such non-random samples from many places, and the combined numbers will likely resemble the bell curve and RJ's 62.5% more closely.


Again, it could well be that people from Norther Alatara are generally weaker in the power. I can't argue against that.

Though if that were the case, why couldn't the bell curve have shifted since the Age of Legends, for genetic reasons?
Fram kamerater!
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Ch2 : Pevara & Androl and channeling implications Sidious - 24/10/2012 06:40:47 PM 3190 Views
Did Perva actually initiate the link or was it Androl? *NM* TheCrownless - 24/10/2012 07:02:15 PM 913 Views
Androl did. *NM* Great Lord of Chaos - 25/10/2012 05:10:31 AM 1103 Views
But didn't Nynaeve do it first at the cleansing? TheCrownless - 25/10/2012 12:43:15 PM 1418 Views
Pevara was thinking on very sketchy information. Great Lord of Chaos - 25/10/2012 08:56:20 PM 1541 Views
did he start the link? or just take it? nigelgoboom - 27/10/2012 07:33:49 AM 1063 Views
I think it's slightly off darius_sedai - 28/10/2012 04:21:05 PM 1330 Views
Re: Ch2 : Pevara & Androl and channeling implications Great Lord of Chaos - 25/10/2012 05:13:43 AM 1684 Views
Re: Ch2 : Pevara & Androl and channeling implications Sidious - 25/10/2012 04:23:20 PM 1362 Views
Re: Ch2 : Pevara & Androl and channeling implications DomA - 25/10/2012 09:52:03 PM 1422 Views
Travelling Tor - 25/10/2012 08:56:41 AM 1400 Views
Yes that's a pet theory of mine Sidious - 25/10/2012 04:21:53 PM 1412 Views
Re: Yes that's a pet theory of mine Tor - 25/10/2012 06:12:21 PM 1377 Views
Re: Yes that's a pet theory of mine DomA - 25/10/2012 08:50:15 PM 1259 Views
Re: Yes that's a pet theory of mine Tor - 25/10/2012 09:45:26 PM 1428 Views
Weren't there 150 or so at Maradon? *NM* Voscaia Sedai - 26/10/2012 03:29:53 PM 821 Views
Re: Yes that's a pet theory of mine DomA - 26/10/2012 08:49:58 PM 1483 Views
Perhaps, but if no on in the AoL could do it when mixed circles were common darius_sedai - 28/10/2012 04:22:20 PM 1219 Views
How strong Pevara is... fionwe1987 - 25/10/2012 07:08:26 PM 1587 Views
I'm pretty sure Moiraine is closer to 30... DREWRULESWOT! - 25/10/2012 07:41:37 PM 1186 Views
Agreed Sidious - 25/10/2012 08:37:24 PM 1327 Views
So... the old story of ignore the bell curve, eh? fionwe1987 - 26/10/2012 01:40:49 AM 1289 Views
No, I fully respect the bell curve Sidious - 26/10/2012 01:51:34 PM 1312 Views
That was disproved long ago... fionwe1987 - 26/10/2012 01:36:24 AM 1377 Views
But Moiraine isn't 'exceptionally strong' DREWRULESWOT! - 26/10/2012 05:16:10 AM 1334 Views
Not particularly strong evidence for that last. Great Lord of Chaos - 26/10/2012 05:36:54 AM 1396 Views
But we know that it takes significantly more strength to maintain multiple weaves DREWRULESWOT! - 26/10/2012 08:14:58 AM 1317 Views
Not true darius_sedai - 27/10/2012 09:15:51 PM 1287 Views
Not accurate darius_sedai - 27/10/2012 09:31:05 PM 1210 Views
The Bell Curve explained... Shannow - 26/10/2012 10:27:34 AM 1264 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... Tor - 26/10/2012 11:40:04 AM 1258 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... Shannow - 26/10/2012 12:32:01 PM 1180 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... Tor - 26/10/2012 12:48:51 PM 1310 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... Shannow - 26/10/2012 01:07:39 PM 1277 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... Tor - 26/10/2012 01:18:32 PM 1470 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... Shannow - 26/10/2012 01:57:18 PM 1359 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... Tor - 28/10/2012 02:07:39 PM 1317 Views
Yet Sharina, Nynaeve etc exist, thus the BC is the same darius_sedai - 27/10/2012 09:39:58 PM 1542 Views
The curve is OBVIOUSLY the same... fionwe1987 - 28/10/2012 01:50:37 AM 1116 Views
Re: The curve is OBVIOUSLY the same... Tor - 28/10/2012 02:01:59 PM 1217 Views
You need to go read RJ's quotes: fionwe1987 - 28/10/2012 02:41:49 PM 1351 Views
Re: You need to go read RJ's quotes: Tor - 28/10/2012 05:39:12 PM 1132 Views
I need to come and save you from blatant fallacies being spouted by the loonies. Shannow - 28/10/2012 05:56:21 PM 1144 Views
Re: I need to come and save you from blatant fallacies being spouted by the loonies. Tor - 28/10/2012 07:44:02 PM 1242 Views
This is like watching a train-wreck. fionwe1987 - 29/10/2012 02:58:51 AM 1132 Views
Re: This is like watching a train-wreck. DomA - 29/10/2012 01:10:35 PM 1336 Views
So what's your conclusion? Shannow - 29/10/2012 02:14:33 PM 1113 Views
His conclusion is that RJ was right about the books he wrote... fionwe1987 - 29/10/2012 02:19:59 PM 1239 Views
Pretty much... DomA - 30/10/2012 12:57:41 AM 1313 Views
you do realize that is an impossible question to answer from the books right? darius_sedai - 29/10/2012 07:50:02 PM 1312 Views
Excellent points... fionwe1987 - 29/10/2012 02:16:39 PM 1101 Views
Re: Excellent points... Tor - 29/10/2012 02:47:30 PM 1327 Views
You seem confused. fionwe1987 - 29/10/2012 03:22:47 PM 1086 Views
Re: You seem confused. Tor - 29/10/2012 03:41:48 PM 1126 Views
I think the point is that the AS didn't go force every woman in the area darius_sedai - 29/10/2012 07:57:59 PM 1073 Views
Re: You seem confused. fionwe1987 - 29/10/2012 08:23:22 PM 1348 Views
Re: You seem confused. Tor - 29/10/2012 08:57:11 PM 1228 Views
He drew graphs! fionwe1987 - 30/10/2012 12:49:09 AM 1129 Views
Re: He drew graphs! Tor - 30/10/2012 07:43:54 AM 1339 Views
Re: He drew graphs! fionwe1987 - 30/10/2012 01:57:05 PM 1189 Views
Re: Excellent points... DomA - 30/10/2012 12:20:00 AM 1205 Views
Re: Excellent points... Tor - 30/10/2012 07:49:57 AM 1180 Views
Re: Excellent points... DomA - 30/10/2012 01:05:45 PM 1625 Views
Re: Excellent points... Tor - 30/10/2012 01:25:11 PM 1213 Views
Re: Excellent points... DomA - 30/10/2012 12:20:17 AM 1294 Views
AS recruiting is minimal darius_sedai - 28/10/2012 10:41:29 PM 1164 Views
Re: You need to go read RJ's quotes: fionwe1987 - 29/10/2012 02:23:27 AM 1162 Views
Re: You need to go read RJ's quotes: Tor - 29/10/2012 07:33:44 AM 1153 Views
Huh? fionwe1987 - 29/10/2012 02:26:27 PM 1246 Views
Re: Huh? Tor - 29/10/2012 02:42:07 PM 1107 Views
You don't seem to know what random means... fionwe1987 - 29/10/2012 03:25:57 PM 1151 Views
Re: You don't seem to know what random means... Tor - 29/10/2012 03:36:45 PM 1145 Views
Personally I just think that 1000 women being allowed to tag along is a drop darius_sedai - 29/10/2012 08:05:33 PM 1272 Views
Re: Personally I just think that 1000 women being allowed to tag along is a drop Tor - 29/10/2012 09:04:02 PM 1304 Views
Geography alone can do this darius_sedai - 30/10/2012 12:39:53 AM 1135 Views
Re: Geography alone can do this Tor - 30/10/2012 09:45:58 AM 1114 Views
Not really darius_sedai - 30/10/2012 02:49:05 PM 1111 Views
Here's why its not random... fionwe1987 - 30/10/2012 01:04:18 AM 1113 Views
Re: Here's why its not random... Tor - 30/10/2012 09:42:35 AM 1341 Views
Re: Here's why its not random... fionwe1987 - 30/10/2012 01:51:03 PM 1099 Views
Re: Here's why its not random... Tor - 30/10/2012 02:21:04 PM 1160 Views
YEah, there's no point debating this... fionwe1987 - 30/10/2012 02:46:39 PM 1170 Views
Genetics plays a role darius_sedai - 30/10/2012 03:03:41 PM 1347 Views
Re: You don't seem to know what random means... fionwe1987 - 29/10/2012 08:22:40 PM 1072 Views
Re: You don't seem to know what random means... Tor - 29/10/2012 09:06:08 PM 1190 Views
Why must there be a mechanism? fionwe1987 - 30/10/2012 01:06:29 AM 1142 Views
Re: Why must there be a mechanism? Tor - 30/10/2012 09:48:16 AM 1143 Views
Nope... fionwe1987 - 30/10/2012 01:43:56 PM 1274 Views
Re: Nope... Tor - 30/10/2012 02:34:51 PM 1116 Views
Oh my... fionwe1987 - 30/10/2012 02:50:12 PM 1145 Views
Thought experment time! Hurrah! Tor - 30/10/2012 03:27:01 PM 1118 Views
But it is still possible in your example to get wildly varied results darius_sedai - 30/10/2012 03:30:59 PM 1063 Views
Re: But it is still possible in your example to get wildly varied results Tor - 30/10/2012 03:36:03 PM 1138 Views
LOL darius_sedai - 30/10/2012 04:49:06 PM 1776 Views
Re: Yet Sharina, Nynaeve etc exist, thus the BC is the same Tor - 28/10/2012 01:39:55 PM 1197 Views
The point is there are still people being born in the highest strength categories darius_sedai - 28/10/2012 04:18:55 PM 1226 Views
Re: The point is there are still people being born in the highest strength categories Tor - 28/10/2012 05:21:44 PM 1131 Views
The curve hasn't shifted! fionwe1987 - 28/10/2012 05:39:42 PM 1321 Views
The fact is, Moiraine is not half as strong as Lanfear, hence she is below average strength. Shannow - 28/10/2012 06:02:04 PM 1169 Views
Re: The fact is, Moiraine is not half as strong as Lanfear, hence she is below average strength. Tor - 28/10/2012 07:27:26 PM 1175 Views
There is not a single quote in the series that states Moiraine is less than half the strength darius_sedai - 28/10/2012 10:31:28 PM 1226 Views
How is this fact? fionwe1987 - 29/10/2012 02:59:49 AM 1285 Views
Re: How is this fact? Sidious - 29/10/2012 07:04:15 PM 1164 Views
Not so darius_sedai - 29/10/2012 08:09:29 PM 1121 Views
Re: Not so Sidious - 29/10/2012 08:43:16 PM 1285 Views
Sure it is darius_sedai - 30/10/2012 01:43:39 AM 1240 Views
Explain Elza-Merise-Cadsuane then... fionwe1987 - 29/10/2012 08:20:14 PM 1137 Views
Re: Explain Elza-Merise-Cadsuane then... Sidious - 29/10/2012 08:38:11 PM 1238 Views
Are you blind man? fionwe1987 - 30/10/2012 01:12:26 AM 1161 Views
Re: Are you blind man? Sidious - 30/10/2012 09:23:37 AM 1182 Views
Cadsuane is just below Egwene... fionwe1987 - 30/10/2012 01:37:54 PM 1118 Views
Your strength scores don't square with the Pevara quote darius_sedai - 30/10/2012 03:15:22 PM 1131 Views
Re: The curve hasn't shifted! Tor - 28/10/2012 07:36:36 PM 1142 Views
Well the most obvious thing is that RJ was quoted on the subject any number of times darius_sedai - 28/10/2012 11:34:18 PM 1262 Views
On Raw strength scores I think you are pretty inline with my thinking darius_sedai - 27/10/2012 09:37:25 PM 1283 Views
And the facing a Foresaken comment is out of context anyway... fionwe1987 - 28/10/2012 01:56:12 AM 1317 Views
Excellent point on raw v. Effective strength *NM* darius_sedai - 28/10/2012 04:13:21 PM 815 Views
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