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Re: and that's just YOUR theory Sidius Sidious Send a noteboard - 07/12/2012 10:14:53 PM
there is very little evidence to show which of the men are stronger than which and zero showing to what degree ... given how competitive life was among the Chosen during the WOP I find it incredibly unlikely people significantly weaker than the top strength levels coupled with obviously less skill (Asmodean and Balthamel were nowhere close to the skill level of Lanfear, Graendal, Ishamael or Demandred) would have survived as one of the top level Chosen. The 13 we started with were on the short list of top generals, something they would not have been able to achieve with both a lack of skill and very close to the maximum level of strength.

We know from RJ that the top Forsaken at the meeting were Ishamael, Demandred, Sammael, Lanfear, Semirhage and Graendal. It's likely the others were only middling Forsaken, or perhaps less constantly at the top. Considering there were hundreds, maybe thousands of Chosen, this may have been a meeting of regional governors, or some section of the Shadow. Channelers like Asmodean or Moghedien could have been at 80 and used their less than enormous strength to kill everyone below them but also evade some of the more dangerous ones. Aran'gar even speaks about not toying with Demandred as he is too dangerous, and Be'lal and Rahvin become nervous around Ishamael. They could probably all survive a duel with one another, if barely.

Only thing we can go on is that in a very short window of time Rand is known to be "slightly" stronger than Rahvin, Sammael, Be'lal, Asmodean and Taim ... he even says in all of these instances (except Be'lal) that these men "were holding nearly as much saidin as he could" which indicates he was a bit stronger than each of them as he faced off with them and this all takes place in about a 6 month window.

It makes little difference. In book 4 he was at Asmodean level, and by WH he was at full power. Whether this is 60 and 100, or 98 and 100... I don't care much.

Wheel of Time board admin
Fan of Lanfear
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I really hate to bring up strength in the OP, but thankfully it doesn't regard Egwene or any women. DREWRULESWOT! - 04/12/2012 06:01:45 AM 1944 Views
My thoughts Sidious - 04/12/2012 07:15:44 AM 1350 Views
90 is REALLY high DREWRULESWOT! - 04/12/2012 07:25:15 AM 1312 Views
Couple of things ... **reminder that this is a lot of speculation** darius_sedai - 04/12/2012 04:29:50 PM 1311 Views
Narishma is definitely stronger, you're right. DREWRULESWOT! - 07/12/2012 03:00:53 AM 1199 Views
He was stronger than Aginor in order to channel the power of the Eye darius_sedai - 07/12/2012 03:00:10 PM 1234 Views
No I don't think so Sidious - 07/12/2012 04:13:48 PM 1097 Views
I'd say more than 80 darius_sedai - 07/12/2012 07:07:32 PM 1038 Views
81 then Sidious - 07/12/2012 08:11:34 PM 964 Views
and that's just YOUR theory Sidius darius_sedai - 07/12/2012 09:13:42 PM 1026 Views
Re: and that's just YOUR theory Sidius Sidious - 07/12/2012 10:14:53 PM 1085 Views
there were more like MILLIONS of Forsaken during these times darius_sedai - 07/12/2012 10:30:34 PM 1055 Views
Re: and that's just YOUR theory Sidius RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/12/2012 08:44:51 PM 887 Views
Aginors defeat could be a result of multiple factors. So can Ishmaels Onarishma - 07/12/2012 01:24:18 PM 1112 Views
Regardless, Rand was clearly in the same strength category when Aginor and he faced off darius_sedai - 07/12/2012 03:03:04 PM 1107 Views
I disagree. Onarishma - 07/12/2012 06:55:43 PM 996 Views
Aginor burned out trying to use the Eye in the real world darius_sedai - 07/12/2012 07:12:44 PM 1047 Views
Re: Aginor burned out trying to use the Eye in the real world Onarishma - 07/12/2012 07:51:37 PM 1002 Views
he faced Asmodean strength for strength before Rahvin darius_sedai - 07/12/2012 09:23:42 PM 1102 Views
Just to be a bitch Sidious - 07/12/2012 10:17:11 PM 929 Views
you don't actually have to tell us all you are a bitch darius_sedai - 07/12/2012 10:36:25 PM 1091 Views
*NM* Sidious - 08/12/2012 06:22:49 AM 924 Views
He didn't face Asmodean he chased him and wrestled him over a sa'angreal. Onarishma - 10/12/2012 11:16:18 PM 1145 Views
Asmo hurled plenty of stuff at Rand during the "Chase" it wasnt all that much different darius_sedai - 11/12/2012 03:16:36 AM 987 Views
I disagree with your plenty cause no one was TRYING to crush him. *NM* Onarishma - 11/12/2012 07:13:12 PM 583 Views
as I said before ... your interpretations are yours to have ... as are mine. *NM* darius_sedai - 11/12/2012 09:16:36 PM 495 Views
think youre misjudgjng the benefits of the link. they dont have to add up to 90. Onarishma - 07/12/2012 12:34:59 PM 1047 Views
There is also no why to tell if Flinn hit Demandred with all the strength available to him either darius_sedai - 07/12/2012 03:05:38 PM 1025 Views
the "circle" was stronger but the individuals weren't *NM* Onarishma - 07/12/2012 06:58:38 PM 607 Views
that's what I just said *NM* darius_sedai - 07/12/2012 07:23:34 PM 545 Views
that was not clear *NM* Onarishma - 07/12/2012 07:43:54 PM 641 Views
*shrug* darius_sedai - 07/12/2012 09:25:00 PM 926 Views
Re: *shrug* Onarishma - 10/12/2012 11:27:42 PM 1019 Views
If I had said the individuals in the circle added to Dmandreds strength perhaps darius_sedai - 11/12/2012 03:28:23 AM 1064 Views
in the context of this discussion you did not distinguish between the effective strength and Onarishma - 11/12/2012 07:10:48 PM 978 Views
whatever ... didn't think it was necessary ... and with that I'm done darius_sedai - 11/12/2012 09:16:03 PM 942 Views
Onarishma - 17/12/2012 11:22:55 PM 1246 Views
About Rand's strength... an important quote is being ignored: fionwe1987 - 08/12/2012 12:37:38 AM 1175 Views
Perhaps darius_sedai - 08/12/2012 01:01:21 AM 989 Views
Re: Perhaps fionwe1987 - 08/12/2012 02:06:39 AM 1058 Views
Like I said ... Could be darius_sedai - 08/12/2012 02:33:43 AM 1035 Views
I disagree... fionwe1987 - 08/12/2012 04:53:09 AM 991 Views
Re: I disagree... darius_sedai - 08/12/2012 05:20:08 AM 925 Views
I disagree again! fionwe1987 - 08/12/2012 05:49:15 AM 992 Views
Probably darius_sedai - 08/12/2012 02:46:15 PM 1036 Views
Re: Probably fionwe1987 - 09/12/2012 07:51:59 PM 1039 Views
Not really darius_sedai - 09/12/2012 10:13:07 PM 965 Views
Re: Not really fionwe1987 - 10/12/2012 01:05:54 AM 996 Views
Re: Not really darius_sedai - 13/12/2012 03:58:48 PM 1068 Views
I don't think the Forsaken are good examples Sidious - 08/12/2012 06:18:45 AM 1045 Views
We're essentially saying the same thing now darius_sedai - 08/12/2012 02:37:17 PM 997 Views
Re: I don't think the Forsaken are good examples RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/12/2012 08:08:21 PM 914 Views
Always thought the forsaken didn't really know much about Rand TheCrownless - 08/12/2012 02:38:08 AM 1066 Views
And they had plenty of spies around him and clearly knew that he managed darius_sedai - 08/12/2012 02:43:15 AM 972 Views
Re: And they had plenty of spies around him and clearly knew that he managed TheCrownless - 08/12/2012 05:34:54 AM 1050 Views
Who can say. Graendal wraps them so deep in compulsion that she can dig darius_sedai - 08/12/2012 05:42:39 AM 1038 Views
I don't think they could have had a clear idea of his strength eary in the series... Narg - 08/12/2012 09:34:36 AM 1163 Views
Re: I don't think they could have had a clear idea of his strength eary in the series... darius_sedai - 08/12/2012 02:54:08 PM 954 Views
Oops, double post. *NM* Narg - 08/12/2012 09:34:36 AM 616 Views
Re: About Rand's strength... an important quote is being ignored: Dunstan - 11/12/2012 11:36:51 PM 1036 Views
Re: Rand v Aginor Watcher - 16/12/2012 01:46:08 PM 981 Views
Not a bad theory and I've read it before darius_sedai - 16/12/2012 07:42:31 PM 926 Views
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