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Indeed darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 09/12/2015 11:01:03 PM

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It's also not all about channeling either... Nynaeve had zero skills (acquired) and was blocked, yet Siuan deemed her too old and too strong to be a novice. Of course, this wasn't normal, but still...

The main factor the AS are looking at in recruits is strength of character/personality. They don't give the shawl to women who have not yet been shaped into proper AS, who will behave like AS. They also have to reach the minimal level for Acceptance, and likely that for the shawl later (and the whole set of weaves used in the test), but in those two cases it's a matter of gaining on your potential more than having learned fast. To AS, strength in the OP is stupidly equated to leadership qualities, so they tend to see stronger recruit as being stronger persons naturally, and it part it's true because they treat them as if they were stronger and promised to greater things, while weaker ones are treated as weaker person. Want it or not, this sinks in... which explains the subdued nature of a Daigian, for instance.

The thing is, we can't really know if weaker women progress in their weaving slower than strong women, for AS do not deal with their recruits equally... they won't make weaker women progress very fast, and they probably also believe that stronger women must work harder and progress faster because they're in more danger....

AS are so biased, and also don't use angreal to help the weaker women to have enough strength to learn and make work some weaves (I seriously doubt they like WO teach weaves that a woman isn't able to make work), we can't draw much conclusions.

We'd have to compare to how things go among the Aiel, but except to tell us that all women were trained to their fullest no matter their strength, RJ has not left us information.

Personally I tend to think stronger women usually progress faster because, without angreal, they have sooner access to larger quantities of saidar to weave. But since we've seen weak women who remain very good weaver, I suspect it's not a matter of talent, skill, ability and with an angreal to use a weak woman could train as fast as a much stronger one.





The point I was trying to make is that Training and Learning the OP are not the same thing. We know that Moiraine came to the White Tower with a stellar education due to her position in the royal family of Cairhien and this played a role in her quickly moving from Novice to Accepted, meanwhile Siuan came in practically without an education, but still managed to progress quickly because she was something of an OP savant, thus her focus was on mundane knowledge while Moiraine's focus as a Novice was on the Power.

They both gained strength rapidly enough to be strong enough to meet the minimum requirements for the Ring and the Shawl, but neither was at their full potential (I would guess they were around a 18/19 when they reached the Shawl).

Daigian, was almost certainly at her full potential after nearly 50 years, but to your point she likely wasn't really focussed on by her strength obsessed Aes Sedai teachers and thus would have struggled with nearly every weave.

On the other hand there are women like Silviana who spent enough time in training that she must have been at her full potential when she achieved the Shawl and possibly even when she became Accepted. Her issues seemed to be rooted in the OP part of the training, similar to Nynaeve's issues.

Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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Sortable, searchable file of Channelers - 28/11/2015 10:01:57 PM 3706 Views
Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 04:15:17 PM 1407 Views
Re: Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 06:53:40 PM 1376 Views
Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 04:41:52 PM 1557 Views
Re: Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 06:54:02 PM 1440 Views
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They do say it - 30/11/2015 10:32:48 AM 1728 Views
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Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 01/12/2015 08:02:01 AM 1549 Views
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Well maybe - 02/12/2015 06:31:05 AM 1556 Views
Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 08:34:54 AM 1563 Views
I agree - 02/12/2015 04:22:52 PM 1583 Views
Re: I agree - 02/12/2015 05:14:50 PM 1766 Views
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Re: It's always been confusing - 02/12/2015 07:27:11 PM 1698 Views
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Re: Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 04:46:54 PM 1761 Views
Morgase - 03/12/2015 04:37:47 AM 1607 Views
I agree with you on this - 03/12/2015 03:22:22 PM 1436 Views
Re: Morgase - 03/12/2015 07:46:59 PM 1724 Views
I didn't realize he was being literal in that comment - 03/12/2015 09:29:52 PM 1547 Views
Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 03:52:49 PM 1662 Views
Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 04:42:37 PM 1713 Views
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Indeed - 02/12/2015 08:21:07 PM 1487 Views
Re: Indeed - 03/12/2015 04:08:03 AM 1409 Views
close enough to not debate about it - 03/12/2015 03:47:55 PM 1434 Views
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Re: I think you misunderstand what I'm saying - 03/12/2015 05:41:17 PM 1505 Views
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Re: close enough to not debate about it - 05/12/2015 11:29:44 AM 1464 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 03/12/2015 07:22:15 AM 1378 Views
Great job - 30/11/2015 05:45:27 AM 1430 Views
Re: Great job - 30/11/2015 03:22:09 PM 1436 Views
Made a few adjustments to add some presumed minimum/maximum levels *NM* - 30/11/2015 04:28:13 PM 934 Views
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Re: Some questions - 30/11/2015 07:26:29 PM 1411 Views
Re: Some questions - 01/12/2015 08:05:01 AM 1598 Views
That's why I added another column to it - 01/12/2015 04:25:04 PM 1489 Views
Some more - 01/12/2015 05:24:40 PM 1509 Views
Re: Some more - 01/12/2015 07:34:20 PM 1548 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 12:27:40 AM 1553 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 02:26:53 AM 1476 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 08:24:49 AM 1516 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 05:54:49 PM 1543 Views
Re: Some more - 03/12/2015 04:26:45 AM 1343 Views
You said this much better than I did - 03/12/2015 03:53:57 PM 1416 Views
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Yes - 02/12/2015 03:06:44 PM 1410 Views
Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 04:45:20 PM 1526 Views
Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 06:39:43 PM 1574 Views
Re: Yes - 03/12/2015 03:56:23 AM 1379 Views
I think when characters quoted information from their world it gets muddled - 03/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1495 Views
Shielding - 05/12/2015 11:19:40 AM 1329 Views
I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 06/12/2015 06:41:35 PM 1353 Views
Re: I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 07/12/2015 12:39:54 PM 1416 Views
seriously! - 07/12/2015 04:55:43 PM 1421 Views
Who should defer to whom? - 01/12/2015 08:17:22 PM 1569 Views
Interesting... - 02/12/2015 08:44:32 AM 1571 Views
I think there needs to be a pretty significant (5+ levels) difference - 02/12/2015 06:25:35 PM 1582 Views
Good job - 05/12/2015 08:43:09 PM 1932 Views
Some questions - 06/12/2015 12:28:46 AM 1429 Views
Can't offer much - 06/12/2015 12:33:29 AM 1751 Views
Cool. Hopefully Dom will see this... - 06/12/2015 08:58:39 PM 1346 Views
Re: Some questions - 06/12/2015 08:06:56 PM 1373 Views
Then there would be some mention of it, yes/ - 06/12/2015 08:56:10 PM 1375 Views
Not at all ... He clearly had a general sense of how it worked - 07/12/2015 03:28:35 AM 1297 Views
Re: Some questions - 07/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1650 Views
yet we also know that some things are inherently different for men and women - 07/12/2015 08:15:26 PM 1340 Views
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Sort of. - 06/12/2015 10:30:36 PM 1928 Views
Makes sense - 07/12/2015 12:38:54 AM 1357 Views
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Re: Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. - 09/12/2015 02:31:18 PM 1444 Views
Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 03:22:17 PM 1258 Views
Re: Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 04:54:37 PM 1445 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:36 PM 791 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:55 PM 820 Views
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Yes - 09/12/2015 03:46:30 PM 1335 Views
Some things to consider - 09/12/2015 04:18:50 PM 1334 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:43:35 AM 1298 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 06:28:49 AM 1285 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 11:53:51 AM 1330 Views
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Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 04:46:29 PM 1329 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:50:17 PM 1318 Views
plenty of weaker ones with notably strong Talents actually - 10/12/2015 06:26:03 PM 1385 Views
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and you are just rationalizing to make your point seem plausible - 11/12/2015 03:10:12 PM 1438 Views
another point about Talents (unrelated to the Strength question) - 11/12/2015 06:06:42 PM 1502 Views
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Re: Some things to consider - 12/12/2015 06:19:15 AM 1381 Views
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Re: Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road - 15/12/2015 06:01:58 AM 1342 Views
I'm actually perplexed - 15/12/2015 07:19:27 AM 1290 Views
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Re: Yes and No - 09/12/2015 10:41:32 PM 1435 Views
Indeed - 09/12/2015 11:01:03 PM 1375 Views
Ajah Strength Index - 09/12/2015 10:45:29 PM 1349 Views
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Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 03:12:21 AM 1271 Views
Re: Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 04:59:42 AM 1315 Views
Re: Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 04:18:00 PM 1359 Views
Re: Ajah Strength Index - 10/12/2015 05:40:39 AM 1332 Views
I'm not so sure you'd have a chioce - 10/12/2015 04:01:35 PM 1316 Views
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Explain - 11/12/2015 05:16:55 AM 1400 Views
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Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 01:11:17 AM 1500 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:54:28 AM 1515 Views
mostly agree - 16/12/2015 06:27:06 PM 1377 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:50:27 PM 1668 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 17/12/2015 10:07:48 AM 1579 Views
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additional thought - 16/12/2015 06:49:04 PM 1335 Views
Does she know that? - 16/12/2015 06:58:24 PM 1517 Views
I'm speculating of course - 16/12/2015 07:37:10 PM 1391 Views
Strength by National origin - 16/12/2015 09:04:11 PM 1298 Views
Rebels v. Loyalists! - 16/12/2015 10:29:28 PM 1416 Views
Tamra's known hunters - 04/01/2016 06:58:17 PM 1414 Views
Known... - 05/01/2016 01:54:56 AM 1284 Views
Re: Known... - 05/01/2016 02:55:50 AM 1504 Views

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