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Several reasons ... Edited for clarity darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 11/12/2015 02:54:58 PM

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First I'll start by saying I think these women are all about 10 levels too strong from the way they were depicted in the books. With the possible exception of Liandrin herself, who could plausibly be as strong as was outlined in the Companion.

Liandrin, Red, Level 14, age 36, Tarabon, captive to the Seanchan

Marillin Gemalphin, Brown, level 15, age 152, Andoran, freed by Mellar fate unknown
Eldrith Jhondar, Brown, level 16, age 116, Amadician, killed by Mellar

Falion Bhoda, White, level 17, age 127, Kandori, Killed by Aviendha
Rianna Andomeran, White, level 21, age 76, Kandori, Captive in Stedding Sholoon

Ispan Shefar, Blue, level 17, age 109, Taraboner, Killed by Careane
Berylla Naron, Blue, level 27, age 67, Illianer, MIA since Moghedien gave her orders

Temaile Kinderode, Gray, level 17, age 57, Cairheinin, Killed by Mellar
Joiya Byir, Gray, level 28, age 171, Andoran, Killed by Slayer

Asne Zeramene, Green, level 18, age 163, Saldaean, Killed by Windfinders
Jeaine Caide, Green, level 18, age 88, Domani, Killed by Thom Merrilin

Chesmal Emery, Yellow, level 18, age 137, Ghealdanin, Killed by Elayne
Amico Nagoyin, Yellow, level 27, age 32, Arafellin, Killed by Slayer


Why do you think they are too strong by 10 levels? What depiction? They were always depicted as average sort of Aes Sedai and their acts and abilities reflected such. Liandrin was mentioned as the strongest - I was surprised at 14 but it's not outrageous.


First Liandrin, was the strongest, yet she was never really mentioned as being particularly strong by Aes Sedai standards, so a placement at 14 was surprising to me, but as I said in the original post about this it's still plausible, more so given that her main role as an antagonist was in the earliest part of the series when strength was not as clearly defined. I simply got the impression that she was more of a middle level Aes Sedai. Middling Aes Sedai are women like Aeldene, on level 27 not level 14-18, that's the providence of "strong" Aes Sedai.

As for the others, their strength was universally dismissed when it came up. To find out that 9 out of the 13 are strong enough to Travel and that at least 3 of them are in the very top levels (16+) of Aes Sedai strength and 3 others at level 17 is a glaring mismatch to how they were seen in the books. On several occasions we are told that the girls are already stronger than any of them in raw power, something patently false in the early stages for Elayne and Egwene. Neither of whom are as strong as Liandrin's stated level 14 until at least the end of TSR. Only Amico, Joiya and Berylla seem in the range of how they were described in the books IMO. And given Verin's reaction to Katerine's escape "a Red of her strength", Katerine is weaker than Liandrin and the same as Marillin? Seems out of sync. Also Elayne, while often stupidly brave, now looks like an even bigger fool for rushing in to face such powerful Aes Sedai, everyone of the one left was strong enough to Travel and then some ...

Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
This message last edited by darius_sedai on 11/12/2015 at 08:01:21 PM
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Sortable, searchable file of Channelers - 28/11/2015 10:01:57 PM 3659 Views
Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 04:15:17 PM 1379 Views
Re: Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 06:53:40 PM 1348 Views
Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 04:41:52 PM 1529 Views
Re: Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 06:54:02 PM 1415 Views
Quick Question - 30/11/2015 05:11:17 AM 1541 Views
Nope - 30/11/2015 05:44:04 AM 1606 Views
They do say it - 30/11/2015 10:32:48 AM 1704 Views
I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 30/11/2015 03:21:00 PM 1397 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 01/12/2015 08:02:01 AM 1523 Views
Well, it also states that there are gradations within each level too - 01/12/2015 04:26:29 PM 1541 Views
Well maybe - 02/12/2015 06:31:05 AM 1528 Views
Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 08:34:54 AM 1537 Views
I agree - 02/12/2015 04:22:52 PM 1550 Views
Re: I agree - 02/12/2015 05:14:50 PM 1724 Views
It's always been confusing - 02/12/2015 06:00:01 PM 1687 Views
Re: It's always been confusing - 02/12/2015 07:27:11 PM 1664 Views
I wholeheartedly agree - 02/12/2015 08:07:39 PM 1487 Views
Re: Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 04:46:54 PM 1725 Views
Morgase - 03/12/2015 04:37:47 AM 1582 Views
I agree with you on this - 03/12/2015 03:22:22 PM 1407 Views
Re: Morgase - 03/12/2015 07:46:59 PM 1691 Views
I didn't realize he was being literal in that comment - 03/12/2015 09:29:52 PM 1517 Views
Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 03:52:49 PM 1639 Views
Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 04:42:37 PM 1685 Views
Probably - 02/12/2015 06:11:42 PM 1445 Views
Re: Probably - 02/12/2015 07:38:50 PM 1572 Views
Indeed - 02/12/2015 08:21:07 PM 1459 Views
Re: Indeed - 03/12/2015 04:08:03 AM 1389 Views
close enough to not debate about it - 03/12/2015 03:47:55 PM 1404 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it - 03/12/2015 04:14:38 PM 1394 Views
I think you misunderstand what I'm saying - 03/12/2015 04:43:29 PM 1465 Views
Re: I think you misunderstand what I'm saying - 03/12/2015 05:41:17 PM 1478 Views
um, no - 03/12/2015 09:24:31 PM 1389 Views
You two seem like Egwene's interchangeable defenders to me; it's weird to see you fighting. - 04/12/2015 09:21:23 PM 1743 Views
That's on you... - 04/12/2015 09:46:51 PM 1409 Views
We've been arguing on the forums for like 10 years - 06/12/2015 07:36:55 PM 1386 Views
It's Cannoli, Darius - 06/12/2015 08:53:06 PM 1390 Views
LOL *NM* - 07/12/2015 03:26:40 AM 838 Views
Some points - 05/12/2015 11:14:30 AM 1405 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it - 05/12/2015 11:29:44 AM 1432 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 03/12/2015 07:22:15 AM 1346 Views
Great job - 30/11/2015 05:45:27 AM 1401 Views
Re: Great job - 30/11/2015 03:22:09 PM 1405 Views
Made a few adjustments to add some presumed minimum/maximum levels *NM* - 30/11/2015 04:28:13 PM 914 Views
Some questions - 30/11/2015 05:18:00 PM 1391 Views
Re: Some questions - 30/11/2015 07:26:29 PM 1385 Views
Re: Some questions - 01/12/2015 08:05:01 AM 1570 Views
That's why I added another column to it - 01/12/2015 04:25:04 PM 1462 Views
Some more - 01/12/2015 05:24:40 PM 1481 Views
Re: Some more - 01/12/2015 07:34:20 PM 1515 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 12:27:40 AM 1517 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 02:26:53 AM 1442 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 08:24:49 AM 1492 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 05:54:49 PM 1521 Views
Re: Some more - 03/12/2015 04:26:45 AM 1319 Views
You said this much better than I did - 03/12/2015 03:53:57 PM 1386 Views
I think the men are much too strong - 02/12/2015 09:01:56 AM 1555 Views
Yes - 02/12/2015 03:06:44 PM 1383 Views
Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 04:45:20 PM 1495 Views
Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 06:39:43 PM 1543 Views
Re: Yes - 03/12/2015 03:56:23 AM 1345 Views
I think when characters quoted information from their world it gets muddled - 03/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1463 Views
Shielding - 05/12/2015 11:19:40 AM 1302 Views
I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 06/12/2015 06:41:35 PM 1328 Views
Re: I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 07/12/2015 12:39:54 PM 1392 Views
seriously! - 07/12/2015 04:55:43 PM 1393 Views
Who should defer to whom? - 01/12/2015 08:17:22 PM 1534 Views
Interesting... - 02/12/2015 08:44:32 AM 1544 Views
I think there needs to be a pretty significant (5+ levels) difference - 02/12/2015 06:25:35 PM 1554 Views
Good job - 05/12/2015 08:43:09 PM 1907 Views
Some questions - 06/12/2015 12:28:46 AM 1400 Views
Can't offer much - 06/12/2015 12:33:29 AM 1728 Views
Cool. Hopefully Dom will see this... - 06/12/2015 08:58:39 PM 1321 Views
Re: Some questions - 06/12/2015 08:06:56 PM 1343 Views
Then there would be some mention of it, yes/ - 06/12/2015 08:56:10 PM 1352 Views
Not at all ... He clearly had a general sense of how it worked - 07/12/2015 03:28:35 AM 1277 Views
Re: Some questions - 07/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1619 Views
yet we also know that some things are inherently different for men and women - 07/12/2015 08:15:26 PM 1316 Views
it probably has to do with the fact that the characters in the books are also obsessed with strength - 06/12/2015 07:58:20 PM 1423 Views
Sort of. - 06/12/2015 10:30:36 PM 1905 Views
Makes sense - 07/12/2015 12:38:54 AM 1324 Views
Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series - 07/12/2015 07:39:59 PM 1538 Views
Re: Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series - 10/12/2015 05:33:27 AM 1374 Views
Probably something along those lines - 10/12/2015 03:44:48 PM 1264 Views
Lifespan question (Spoiler) - 08/12/2015 05:42:41 PM 1304 Views
Moiraine... - 09/12/2015 02:28:50 AM 1382 Views
That too is possible - 09/12/2015 03:02:12 PM 1326 Views
Some random trends/data points - 08/12/2015 08:39:14 PM 1342 Views
Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:42:51 AM 852 Views
Re: Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. - 09/12/2015 02:31:18 PM 1423 Views
Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 03:22:17 PM 1234 Views
Re: Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 04:54:37 PM 1415 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:36 PM 776 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:55 PM 801 Views
so.... - 09/12/2015 06:10:41 AM 1403 Views
Nope... - 09/12/2015 03:24:07 PM 1384 Views
Yes - 09/12/2015 03:46:30 PM 1305 Views
Some things to consider - 09/12/2015 04:18:50 PM 1310 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:43:35 AM 1272 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 06:28:49 AM 1257 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 11:53:51 AM 1302 Views
Sorilea has always been shown as skilled - 10/12/2015 04:10:37 PM 1380 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 04:46:29 PM 1296 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:50:17 PM 1291 Views
plenty of weaker ones with notably strong Talents actually - 10/12/2015 06:26:03 PM 1359 Views
This is a flawed list - 11/12/2015 05:14:47 AM 1275 Views
and you are just rationalizing to make your point seem plausible - 11/12/2015 03:10:12 PM 1409 Views
another point about Talents (unrelated to the Strength question) - 11/12/2015 06:06:42 PM 1475 Views
Not really - 11/12/2015 09:09:41 PM 1386 Views
You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement - 11/12/2015 10:13:13 PM 1406 Views
Re: You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement - 12/12/2015 06:46:05 AM 1286 Views
Let's face it a body builder ninja is sort of funny to think about - 12/12/2015 02:55:37 PM 1383 Views
Some quotes - 12/12/2015 01:18:41 AM 1283 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 12/12/2015 03:18:30 AM 1373 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 12/12/2015 06:19:15 AM 1352 Views
Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! - 12/12/2015 03:15:26 PM 1279 Views
Re: Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! - 13/12/2015 11:26:17 AM 1322 Views
Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road - 14/12/2015 04:40:50 PM 1272 Views
Re: Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road - 15/12/2015 06:01:58 AM 1316 Views
I'm actually perplexed - 15/12/2015 07:19:27 AM 1265 Views
Re: I'm actually perplexed - 17/12/2015 11:36:59 AM 1396 Views
LOL ... Amen! *NM* - 15/12/2015 03:54:55 PM 809 Views
I don't think Elayne was that Strong in TSR - 10/12/2015 04:55:19 PM 1349 Views
Yes and No - 09/12/2015 04:35:48 PM 1260 Views
Re: Yes and No - 09/12/2015 10:41:32 PM 1396 Views
Indeed - 09/12/2015 11:01:03 PM 1348 Views
Ajah Strength Index - 09/12/2015 10:45:29 PM 1325 Views
Greens... - 10/12/2015 12:24:11 AM 1299 Views
Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 03:12:21 AM 1241 Views
Re: Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 04:59:42 AM 1288 Views
Re: Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 04:18:00 PM 1328 Views
Re: Ajah Strength Index - 10/12/2015 05:40:39 AM 1303 Views
I'm not so sure you'd have a chioce - 10/12/2015 04:01:35 PM 1289 Views
Liandrin's 13 - 10/12/2015 09:14:50 PM 1435 Views
Explain - 11/12/2015 05:16:55 AM 1380 Views
Several reasons ... Edited for clarity - 11/12/2015 02:54:58 PM 1467 Views
Bowl of the Winds Circle - 14/12/2015 09:41:33 PM 1324 Views
The Cleansing Circles ... some speculation here - 15/12/2015 05:52:14 PM 1320 Views
If I was Cadsuane I would have done it differently - 15/12/2015 10:01:07 PM 1367 Views
Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 01:11:17 AM 1468 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:54:28 AM 1487 Views
mostly agree - 16/12/2015 06:27:06 PM 1352 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:50:27 PM 1637 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 17/12/2015 10:07:48 AM 1542 Views
We do have some additional clues - 17/12/2015 06:26:20 PM 1519 Views
additional thought - 16/12/2015 06:49:04 PM 1309 Views
Does she know that? - 16/12/2015 06:58:24 PM 1490 Views
I'm speculating of course - 16/12/2015 07:37:10 PM 1353 Views
Strength by National origin - 16/12/2015 09:04:11 PM 1273 Views
Rebels v. Loyalists! - 16/12/2015 10:29:28 PM 1384 Views
Tamra's known hunters - 04/01/2016 06:58:17 PM 1373 Views
Known... - 05/01/2016 01:54:56 AM 1251 Views
Re: Known... - 05/01/2016 02:55:50 AM 1481 Views

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