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Several reasons ... Edited for clarity darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 11/12/2015 02:54:58 PM

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First I'll start by saying I think these women are all about 10 levels too strong from the way they were depicted in the books. With the possible exception of Liandrin herself, who could plausibly be as strong as was outlined in the Companion.

Liandrin, Red, Level 14, age 36, Tarabon, captive to the Seanchan

Marillin Gemalphin, Brown, level 15, age 152, Andoran, freed by Mellar fate unknown
Eldrith Jhondar, Brown, level 16, age 116, Amadician, killed by Mellar

Falion Bhoda, White, level 17, age 127, Kandori, Killed by Aviendha
Rianna Andomeran, White, level 21, age 76, Kandori, Captive in Stedding Sholoon

Ispan Shefar, Blue, level 17, age 109, Taraboner, Killed by Careane
Berylla Naron, Blue, level 27, age 67, Illianer, MIA since Moghedien gave her orders

Temaile Kinderode, Gray, level 17, age 57, Cairheinin, Killed by Mellar
Joiya Byir, Gray, level 28, age 171, Andoran, Killed by Slayer

Asne Zeramene, Green, level 18, age 163, Saldaean, Killed by Windfinders
Jeaine Caide, Green, level 18, age 88, Domani, Killed by Thom Merrilin

Chesmal Emery, Yellow, level 18, age 137, Ghealdanin, Killed by Elayne
Amico Nagoyin, Yellow, level 27, age 32, Arafellin, Killed by Slayer


Why do you think they are too strong by 10 levels? What depiction? They were always depicted as average sort of Aes Sedai and their acts and abilities reflected such. Liandrin was mentioned as the strongest - I was surprised at 14 but it's not outrageous.


First Liandrin, was the strongest, yet she was never really mentioned as being particularly strong by Aes Sedai standards, so a placement at 14 was surprising to me, but as I said in the original post about this it's still plausible, more so given that her main role as an antagonist was in the earliest part of the series when strength was not as clearly defined. I simply got the impression that she was more of a middle level Aes Sedai. Middling Aes Sedai are women like Aeldene, on level 27 not level 14-18, that's the providence of "strong" Aes Sedai.

As for the others, their strength was universally dismissed when it came up. To find out that 9 out of the 13 are strong enough to Travel and that at least 3 of them are in the very top levels (16+) of Aes Sedai strength and 3 others at level 17 is a glaring mismatch to how they were seen in the books. On several occasions we are told that the girls are already stronger than any of them in raw power, something patently false in the early stages for Elayne and Egwene. Neither of whom are as strong as Liandrin's stated level 14 until at least the end of TSR. Only Amico, Joiya and Berylla seem in the range of how they were described in the books IMO. And given Verin's reaction to Katerine's escape "a Red of her strength", Katerine is weaker than Liandrin and the same as Marillin? Seems out of sync. Also Elayne, while often stupidly brave, now looks like an even bigger fool for rushing in to face such powerful Aes Sedai, everyone of the one left was strong enough to Travel and then some ...

Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
This message last edited by darius_sedai on 11/12/2015 at 08:01:21 PM
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Sortable, searchable file of Channelers - 28/11/2015 10:01:57 PM 3543 Views
Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 04:15:17 PM 1288 Views
Re: Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 06:53:40 PM 1264 Views
Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 04:41:52 PM 1434 Views
Re: Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 06:54:02 PM 1300 Views
Quick Question - 30/11/2015 05:11:17 AM 1441 Views
Nope - 30/11/2015 05:44:04 AM 1458 Views
They do say it - 30/11/2015 10:32:48 AM 1617 Views
I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 30/11/2015 03:21:00 PM 1293 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 01/12/2015 08:02:01 AM 1409 Views
Well, it also states that there are gradations within each level too - 01/12/2015 04:26:29 PM 1438 Views
Well maybe - 02/12/2015 06:31:05 AM 1428 Views
Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 08:34:54 AM 1443 Views
I agree - 02/12/2015 04:22:52 PM 1449 Views
Re: I agree - 02/12/2015 05:14:50 PM 1613 Views
It's always been confusing - 02/12/2015 06:00:01 PM 1590 Views
Re: It's always been confusing - 02/12/2015 07:27:11 PM 1549 Views
I wholeheartedly agree - 02/12/2015 08:07:39 PM 1362 Views
Re: Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 04:46:54 PM 1608 Views
Morgase - 03/12/2015 04:37:47 AM 1486 Views
I agree with you on this - 03/12/2015 03:22:22 PM 1288 Views
Re: Morgase - 03/12/2015 07:46:59 PM 1588 Views
I didn't realize he was being literal in that comment - 03/12/2015 09:29:52 PM 1413 Views
Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 03:52:49 PM 1536 Views
Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 04:42:37 PM 1594 Views
Probably - 02/12/2015 06:11:42 PM 1354 Views
Re: Probably - 02/12/2015 07:38:50 PM 1467 Views
Indeed - 02/12/2015 08:21:07 PM 1331 Views
Re: Indeed - 03/12/2015 04:08:03 AM 1298 Views
close enough to not debate about it - 03/12/2015 03:47:55 PM 1306 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it - 03/12/2015 04:14:38 PM 1303 Views
I think you misunderstand what I'm saying - 03/12/2015 04:43:29 PM 1357 Views
Re: I think you misunderstand what I'm saying - 03/12/2015 05:41:17 PM 1380 Views
um, no - 03/12/2015 09:24:31 PM 1297 Views
You two seem like Egwene's interchangeable defenders to me; it's weird to see you fighting. - 04/12/2015 09:21:23 PM 1642 Views
That's on you... - 04/12/2015 09:46:51 PM 1326 Views
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It's Cannoli, Darius - 06/12/2015 08:53:06 PM 1278 Views
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Some points - 05/12/2015 11:14:30 AM 1290 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it - 05/12/2015 11:29:44 AM 1347 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 03/12/2015 07:22:15 AM 1256 Views
Great job - 30/11/2015 05:45:27 AM 1306 Views
Re: Great job - 30/11/2015 03:22:09 PM 1302 Views
Made a few adjustments to add some presumed minimum/maximum levels *NM* - 30/11/2015 04:28:13 PM 873 Views
Some questions - 30/11/2015 05:18:00 PM 1288 Views
Re: Some questions - 30/11/2015 07:26:29 PM 1297 Views
Re: Some questions - 01/12/2015 08:05:01 AM 1482 Views
That's why I added another column to it - 01/12/2015 04:25:04 PM 1365 Views
Some more - 01/12/2015 05:24:40 PM 1381 Views
Re: Some more - 01/12/2015 07:34:20 PM 1405 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 12:27:40 AM 1422 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 02:26:53 AM 1340 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 08:24:49 AM 1391 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 05:54:49 PM 1431 Views
Re: Some more - 03/12/2015 04:26:45 AM 1239 Views
You said this much better than I did - 03/12/2015 03:53:57 PM 1291 Views
I think the men are much too strong - 02/12/2015 09:01:56 AM 1456 Views
Yes - 02/12/2015 03:06:44 PM 1289 Views
Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 04:45:20 PM 1401 Views
Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 06:39:43 PM 1450 Views
Re: Yes - 03/12/2015 03:56:23 AM 1242 Views
I think when characters quoted information from their world it gets muddled - 03/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1359 Views
Shielding - 05/12/2015 11:19:40 AM 1215 Views
I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 06/12/2015 06:41:35 PM 1237 Views
Re: I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 07/12/2015 12:39:54 PM 1294 Views
seriously! - 07/12/2015 04:55:43 PM 1288 Views
Who should defer to whom? - 01/12/2015 08:17:22 PM 1440 Views
Interesting... - 02/12/2015 08:44:32 AM 1441 Views
I think there needs to be a pretty significant (5+ levels) difference - 02/12/2015 06:25:35 PM 1454 Views
Good job - 05/12/2015 08:43:09 PM 1821 Views
Some questions - 06/12/2015 12:28:46 AM 1297 Views
Can't offer much - 06/12/2015 12:33:29 AM 1623 Views
Cool. Hopefully Dom will see this... - 06/12/2015 08:58:39 PM 1221 Views
Re: Some questions - 06/12/2015 08:06:56 PM 1259 Views
Then there would be some mention of it, yes/ - 06/12/2015 08:56:10 PM 1252 Views
Not at all ... He clearly had a general sense of how it worked - 07/12/2015 03:28:35 AM 1193 Views
Re: Some questions - 07/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1524 Views
yet we also know that some things are inherently different for men and women - 07/12/2015 08:15:26 PM 1210 Views
it probably has to do with the fact that the characters in the books are also obsessed with strength - 06/12/2015 07:58:20 PM 1320 Views
Sort of. - 06/12/2015 10:30:36 PM 1804 Views
Makes sense - 07/12/2015 12:38:54 AM 1223 Views
Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series - 07/12/2015 07:39:59 PM 1447 Views
Re: Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series - 10/12/2015 05:33:27 AM 1260 Views
Probably something along those lines - 10/12/2015 03:44:48 PM 1163 Views
Lifespan question (Spoiler) - 08/12/2015 05:42:41 PM 1209 Views
Moiraine... - 09/12/2015 02:28:50 AM 1290 Views
That too is possible - 09/12/2015 03:02:12 PM 1232 Views
Some random trends/data points - 08/12/2015 08:39:14 PM 1244 Views
Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:42:51 AM 815 Views
Re: Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. - 09/12/2015 02:31:18 PM 1325 Views
Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 03:22:17 PM 1147 Views
Re: Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 04:54:37 PM 1305 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:36 PM 738 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:55 PM 765 Views
so.... - 09/12/2015 06:10:41 AM 1300 Views
Nope... - 09/12/2015 03:24:07 PM 1287 Views
Yes - 09/12/2015 03:46:30 PM 1210 Views
Some things to consider - 09/12/2015 04:18:50 PM 1225 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:43:35 AM 1173 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 06:28:49 AM 1158 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 11:53:51 AM 1201 Views
Sorilea has always been shown as skilled - 10/12/2015 04:10:37 PM 1277 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 04:46:29 PM 1201 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:50:17 PM 1196 Views
plenty of weaker ones with notably strong Talents actually - 10/12/2015 06:26:03 PM 1259 Views
This is a flawed list - 11/12/2015 05:14:47 AM 1193 Views
and you are just rationalizing to make your point seem plausible - 11/12/2015 03:10:12 PM 1304 Views
another point about Talents (unrelated to the Strength question) - 11/12/2015 06:06:42 PM 1374 Views
Not really - 11/12/2015 09:09:41 PM 1284 Views
You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement - 11/12/2015 10:13:13 PM 1294 Views
Re: You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement - 12/12/2015 06:46:05 AM 1198 Views
Let's face it a body builder ninja is sort of funny to think about - 12/12/2015 02:55:37 PM 1286 Views
Some quotes - 12/12/2015 01:18:41 AM 1185 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 12/12/2015 03:18:30 AM 1288 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 12/12/2015 06:19:15 AM 1246 Views
Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! - 12/12/2015 03:15:26 PM 1196 Views
Re: Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! - 13/12/2015 11:26:17 AM 1216 Views
Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road - 14/12/2015 04:40:50 PM 1174 Views
Re: Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road - 15/12/2015 06:01:58 AM 1229 Views
I'm actually perplexed - 15/12/2015 07:19:27 AM 1157 Views
Re: I'm actually perplexed - 17/12/2015 11:36:59 AM 1297 Views
LOL ... Amen! *NM* - 15/12/2015 03:54:55 PM 774 Views
I don't think Elayne was that Strong in TSR - 10/12/2015 04:55:19 PM 1242 Views
Yes and No - 09/12/2015 04:35:48 PM 1173 Views
Re: Yes and No - 09/12/2015 10:41:32 PM 1298 Views
Indeed - 09/12/2015 11:01:03 PM 1248 Views
Ajah Strength Index - 09/12/2015 10:45:29 PM 1228 Views
Greens... - 10/12/2015 12:24:11 AM 1207 Views
Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 03:12:21 AM 1153 Views
Re: Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 04:59:42 AM 1210 Views
Re: Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 04:18:00 PM 1226 Views
Re: Ajah Strength Index - 10/12/2015 05:40:39 AM 1215 Views
I'm not so sure you'd have a chioce - 10/12/2015 04:01:35 PM 1197 Views
Liandrin's 13 - 10/12/2015 09:14:50 PM 1330 Views
Explain - 11/12/2015 05:16:55 AM 1278 Views
Several reasons ... Edited for clarity - 11/12/2015 02:54:58 PM 1378 Views
Bowl of the Winds Circle - 14/12/2015 09:41:33 PM 1232 Views
The Cleansing Circles ... some speculation here - 15/12/2015 05:52:14 PM 1215 Views
If I was Cadsuane I would have done it differently - 15/12/2015 10:01:07 PM 1258 Views
Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 01:11:17 AM 1373 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:54:28 AM 1400 Views
mostly agree - 16/12/2015 06:27:06 PM 1246 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:50:27 PM 1537 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 17/12/2015 10:07:48 AM 1437 Views
We do have some additional clues - 17/12/2015 06:26:20 PM 1435 Views
additional thought - 16/12/2015 06:49:04 PM 1204 Views
Does she know that? - 16/12/2015 06:58:24 PM 1380 Views
I'm speculating of course - 16/12/2015 07:37:10 PM 1262 Views
Strength by National origin - 16/12/2015 09:04:11 PM 1185 Views
Rebels v. Loyalists! - 16/12/2015 10:29:28 PM 1300 Views
Tamra's known hunters - 04/01/2016 06:58:17 PM 1285 Views
Known... - 05/01/2016 01:54:56 AM 1171 Views
Re: Known... - 05/01/2016 02:55:50 AM 1377 Views

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