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Several reasons ... Edited for clarity darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 11/12/2015 02:54:58 PM

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First I'll start by saying I think these women are all about 10 levels too strong from the way they were depicted in the books. With the possible exception of Liandrin herself, who could plausibly be as strong as was outlined in the Companion.

Liandrin, Red, Level 14, age 36, Tarabon, captive to the Seanchan

Marillin Gemalphin, Brown, level 15, age 152, Andoran, freed by Mellar fate unknown
Eldrith Jhondar, Brown, level 16, age 116, Amadician, killed by Mellar

Falion Bhoda, White, level 17, age 127, Kandori, Killed by Aviendha
Rianna Andomeran, White, level 21, age 76, Kandori, Captive in Stedding Sholoon

Ispan Shefar, Blue, level 17, age 109, Taraboner, Killed by Careane
Berylla Naron, Blue, level 27, age 67, Illianer, MIA since Moghedien gave her orders

Temaile Kinderode, Gray, level 17, age 57, Cairheinin, Killed by Mellar
Joiya Byir, Gray, level 28, age 171, Andoran, Killed by Slayer

Asne Zeramene, Green, level 18, age 163, Saldaean, Killed by Windfinders
Jeaine Caide, Green, level 18, age 88, Domani, Killed by Thom Merrilin

Chesmal Emery, Yellow, level 18, age 137, Ghealdanin, Killed by Elayne
Amico Nagoyin, Yellow, level 27, age 32, Arafellin, Killed by Slayer


Why do you think they are too strong by 10 levels? What depiction? They were always depicted as average sort of Aes Sedai and their acts and abilities reflected such. Liandrin was mentioned as the strongest - I was surprised at 14 but it's not outrageous.


First Liandrin, was the strongest, yet she was never really mentioned as being particularly strong by Aes Sedai standards, so a placement at 14 was surprising to me, but as I said in the original post about this it's still plausible, more so given that her main role as an antagonist was in the earliest part of the series when strength was not as clearly defined. I simply got the impression that she was more of a middle level Aes Sedai. Middling Aes Sedai are women like Aeldene, on level 27 not level 14-18, that's the providence of "strong" Aes Sedai.

As for the others, their strength was universally dismissed when it came up. To find out that 9 out of the 13 are strong enough to Travel and that at least 3 of them are in the very top levels (16+) of Aes Sedai strength and 3 others at level 17 is a glaring mismatch to how they were seen in the books. On several occasions we are told that the girls are already stronger than any of them in raw power, something patently false in the early stages for Elayne and Egwene. Neither of whom are as strong as Liandrin's stated level 14 until at least the end of TSR. Only Amico, Joiya and Berylla seem in the range of how they were described in the books IMO. And given Verin's reaction to Katerine's escape "a Red of her strength", Katerine is weaker than Liandrin and the same as Marillin? Seems out of sync. Also Elayne, while often stupidly brave, now looks like an even bigger fool for rushing in to face such powerful Aes Sedai, everyone of the one left was strong enough to Travel and then some ...

Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
This message last edited by darius_sedai on 11/12/2015 at 08:01:21 PM
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Sortable, searchable file of Channelers - 28/11/2015 10:01:57 PM 3706 Views
Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 04:15:17 PM 1406 Views
Re: Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 06:53:40 PM 1375 Views
Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 04:41:52 PM 1555 Views
Re: Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 06:54:02 PM 1439 Views
Quick Question - 30/11/2015 05:11:17 AM 1578 Views
Nope - 30/11/2015 05:44:04 AM 1645 Views
They do say it - 30/11/2015 10:32:48 AM 1727 Views
I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 30/11/2015 03:21:00 PM 1423 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 01/12/2015 08:02:01 AM 1549 Views
Well, it also states that there are gradations within each level too - 01/12/2015 04:26:29 PM 1561 Views
Well maybe - 02/12/2015 06:31:05 AM 1556 Views
Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 08:34:54 AM 1563 Views
I agree - 02/12/2015 04:22:52 PM 1581 Views
Re: I agree - 02/12/2015 05:14:50 PM 1764 Views
It's always been confusing - 02/12/2015 06:00:01 PM 1706 Views
Re: It's always been confusing - 02/12/2015 07:27:11 PM 1697 Views
I wholeheartedly agree - 02/12/2015 08:07:39 PM 1512 Views
Re: Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 04:46:54 PM 1759 Views
Morgase - 03/12/2015 04:37:47 AM 1606 Views
I agree with you on this - 03/12/2015 03:22:22 PM 1435 Views
Re: Morgase - 03/12/2015 07:46:59 PM 1722 Views
I didn't realize he was being literal in that comment - 03/12/2015 09:29:52 PM 1546 Views
Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 03:52:49 PM 1661 Views
Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 04:42:37 PM 1713 Views
Probably - 02/12/2015 06:11:42 PM 1471 Views
Re: Probably - 02/12/2015 07:38:50 PM 1595 Views
Indeed - 02/12/2015 08:21:07 PM 1486 Views
Re: Indeed - 03/12/2015 04:08:03 AM 1409 Views
close enough to not debate about it - 03/12/2015 03:47:55 PM 1433 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it - 03/12/2015 04:14:38 PM 1425 Views
I think you misunderstand what I'm saying - 03/12/2015 04:43:29 PM 1495 Views
Re: I think you misunderstand what I'm saying - 03/12/2015 05:41:17 PM 1504 Views
um, no - 03/12/2015 09:24:31 PM 1416 Views
You two seem like Egwene's interchangeable defenders to me; it's weird to see you fighting. - 04/12/2015 09:21:23 PM 1769 Views
That's on you... - 04/12/2015 09:46:51 PM 1436 Views
We've been arguing on the forums for like 10 years - 06/12/2015 07:36:55 PM 1414 Views
It's Cannoli, Darius - 06/12/2015 08:53:06 PM 1418 Views
LOL *NM* - 07/12/2015 03:26:40 AM 854 Views
Some points - 05/12/2015 11:14:30 AM 1444 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it - 05/12/2015 11:29:44 AM 1463 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 03/12/2015 07:22:15 AM 1376 Views
Great job - 30/11/2015 05:45:27 AM 1428 Views
Re: Great job - 30/11/2015 03:22:09 PM 1435 Views
Made a few adjustments to add some presumed minimum/maximum levels *NM* - 30/11/2015 04:28:13 PM 934 Views
Some questions - 30/11/2015 05:18:00 PM 1416 Views
Re: Some questions - 30/11/2015 07:26:29 PM 1410 Views
Re: Some questions - 01/12/2015 08:05:01 AM 1597 Views
That's why I added another column to it - 01/12/2015 04:25:04 PM 1487 Views
Some more - 01/12/2015 05:24:40 PM 1508 Views
Re: Some more - 01/12/2015 07:34:20 PM 1547 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 12:27:40 AM 1552 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 02:26:53 AM 1474 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 08:24:49 AM 1514 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 05:54:49 PM 1542 Views
Re: Some more - 03/12/2015 04:26:45 AM 1342 Views
You said this much better than I did - 03/12/2015 03:53:57 PM 1414 Views
I think the men are much too strong - 02/12/2015 09:01:56 AM 1579 Views
Yes - 02/12/2015 03:06:44 PM 1410 Views
Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 04:45:20 PM 1525 Views
Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 06:39:43 PM 1572 Views
Re: Yes - 03/12/2015 03:56:23 AM 1377 Views
I think when characters quoted information from their world it gets muddled - 03/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1494 Views
Shielding - 05/12/2015 11:19:40 AM 1329 Views
I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 06/12/2015 06:41:35 PM 1351 Views
Re: I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 07/12/2015 12:39:54 PM 1414 Views
seriously! - 07/12/2015 04:55:43 PM 1420 Views
Who should defer to whom? - 01/12/2015 08:17:22 PM 1569 Views
Interesting... - 02/12/2015 08:44:32 AM 1569 Views
I think there needs to be a pretty significant (5+ levels) difference - 02/12/2015 06:25:35 PM 1580 Views
Good job - 05/12/2015 08:43:09 PM 1931 Views
Some questions - 06/12/2015 12:28:46 AM 1428 Views
Can't offer much - 06/12/2015 12:33:29 AM 1751 Views
Cool. Hopefully Dom will see this... - 06/12/2015 08:58:39 PM 1345 Views
Re: Some questions - 06/12/2015 08:06:56 PM 1372 Views
Then there would be some mention of it, yes/ - 06/12/2015 08:56:10 PM 1374 Views
Not at all ... He clearly had a general sense of how it worked - 07/12/2015 03:28:35 AM 1296 Views
Re: Some questions - 07/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1648 Views
yet we also know that some things are inherently different for men and women - 07/12/2015 08:15:26 PM 1339 Views
it probably has to do with the fact that the characters in the books are also obsessed with strength - 06/12/2015 07:58:20 PM 1451 Views
Sort of. - 06/12/2015 10:30:36 PM 1927 Views
Makes sense - 07/12/2015 12:38:54 AM 1355 Views
Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series - 07/12/2015 07:39:59 PM 1563 Views
Re: Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series - 10/12/2015 05:33:27 AM 1398 Views
Probably something along those lines - 10/12/2015 03:44:48 PM 1287 Views
Lifespan question (Spoiler) - 08/12/2015 05:42:41 PM 1332 Views
Moiraine... - 09/12/2015 02:28:50 AM 1404 Views
That too is possible - 09/12/2015 03:02:12 PM 1355 Views
Some random trends/data points - 08/12/2015 08:39:14 PM 1367 Views
Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:42:51 AM 873 Views
Re: Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. - 09/12/2015 02:31:18 PM 1444 Views
Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 03:22:17 PM 1257 Views
Re: Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 04:54:37 PM 1444 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:36 PM 791 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:55 PM 820 Views
so.... - 09/12/2015 06:10:41 AM 1425 Views
Nope... - 09/12/2015 03:24:07 PM 1410 Views
Yes - 09/12/2015 03:46:30 PM 1334 Views
Some things to consider - 09/12/2015 04:18:50 PM 1333 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:43:35 AM 1297 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 06:28:49 AM 1284 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 11:53:51 AM 1329 Views
Sorilea has always been shown as skilled - 10/12/2015 04:10:37 PM 1402 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 04:46:29 PM 1328 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:50:17 PM 1317 Views
plenty of weaker ones with notably strong Talents actually - 10/12/2015 06:26:03 PM 1385 Views
This is a flawed list - 11/12/2015 05:14:47 AM 1299 Views
and you are just rationalizing to make your point seem plausible - 11/12/2015 03:10:12 PM 1438 Views
another point about Talents (unrelated to the Strength question) - 11/12/2015 06:06:42 PM 1502 Views
Not really - 11/12/2015 09:09:41 PM 1415 Views
You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement - 11/12/2015 10:13:13 PM 1439 Views
Re: You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement - 12/12/2015 06:46:05 AM 1311 Views
Let's face it a body builder ninja is sort of funny to think about - 12/12/2015 02:55:37 PM 1409 Views
Some quotes - 12/12/2015 01:18:41 AM 1305 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 12/12/2015 03:18:30 AM 1396 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 12/12/2015 06:19:15 AM 1380 Views
Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! - 12/12/2015 03:15:26 PM 1310 Views
Re: Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! - 13/12/2015 11:26:17 AM 1348 Views
Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road - 14/12/2015 04:40:50 PM 1313 Views
Re: Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road - 15/12/2015 06:01:58 AM 1340 Views
I'm actually perplexed - 15/12/2015 07:19:27 AM 1289 Views
Re: I'm actually perplexed - 17/12/2015 11:36:59 AM 1426 Views
LOL ... Amen! *NM* - 15/12/2015 03:54:55 PM 823 Views
I don't think Elayne was that Strong in TSR - 10/12/2015 04:55:19 PM 1374 Views
Yes and No - 09/12/2015 04:35:48 PM 1293 Views
Re: Yes and No - 09/12/2015 10:41:32 PM 1435 Views
Indeed - 09/12/2015 11:01:03 PM 1374 Views
Ajah Strength Index - 09/12/2015 10:45:29 PM 1349 Views
Greens... - 10/12/2015 12:24:11 AM 1329 Views
Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 03:12:21 AM 1270 Views
Re: Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 04:59:42 AM 1314 Views
Re: Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 04:18:00 PM 1358 Views
Re: Ajah Strength Index - 10/12/2015 05:40:39 AM 1331 Views
I'm not so sure you'd have a chioce - 10/12/2015 04:01:35 PM 1316 Views
Liandrin's 13 - 10/12/2015 09:14:50 PM 1460 Views
Explain - 11/12/2015 05:16:55 AM 1399 Views
Several reasons ... Edited for clarity - 11/12/2015 02:54:58 PM 1498 Views
Bowl of the Winds Circle - 14/12/2015 09:41:33 PM 1352 Views
The Cleansing Circles ... some speculation here - 15/12/2015 05:52:14 PM 1347 Views
If I was Cadsuane I would have done it differently - 15/12/2015 10:01:07 PM 1394 Views
Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 01:11:17 AM 1499 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:54:28 AM 1514 Views
mostly agree - 16/12/2015 06:27:06 PM 1375 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:50:27 PM 1668 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 17/12/2015 10:07:48 AM 1579 Views
We do have some additional clues - 17/12/2015 06:26:20 PM 1553 Views
additional thought - 16/12/2015 06:49:04 PM 1333 Views
Does she know that? - 16/12/2015 06:58:24 PM 1515 Views
I'm speculating of course - 16/12/2015 07:37:10 PM 1390 Views
Strength by National origin - 16/12/2015 09:04:11 PM 1298 Views
Rebels v. Loyalists! - 16/12/2015 10:29:28 PM 1414 Views
Tamra's known hunters - 04/01/2016 06:58:17 PM 1413 Views
Known... - 05/01/2016 01:54:56 AM 1284 Views
Re: Known... - 05/01/2016 02:55:50 AM 1504 Views

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