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Re: Aran'gar Sidious Send a noteboard - 16/12/2015 06:54:28 AM

There's also the skill issue. Flinn way well be more skilled than Daigian., for all we know.

It's likely that no Ash'aman is nearly as skilled as any Aes Sedai as the most senior of their member has channeled for less time than any novice. That said, AS don't know squat about saidin and vice versa... it's likely all the circles were completely inefficient at melding the two Powers.


Yup, and it is the most quantitative statement we have on the Power. It puts the lie to the idea that Egwene was stronger than Amys and Melaine combined (which Aviendha made) or that Egwene+Lelaine+Romanda couldn't have matched Aran'gar (which Egwene made). Even Moiraine's statement that Egwene+Aviendha would just match a female Forsaken is suspect, but plausible if Aviendha was weaker than her eventual level 11.

These characters were all speaking from ignorance, inflating the strengths of Egwene, or the Forsaken.


It proves nothing, and it's absurd to think that ALL the quotes on this issue are incorrect, especially from people who actually know how strong they all are. We know for a fact that the Companion doesn't know how strong Cadsuane is, and there are several other potential mess ups like Rahvin. I would go as far to say that the Companion should not be considered canon on several issues, as well as the last few books of the series. I think it's a very valid point stating that the original author had no part in the verification of these facts, and clearly many of them have been messed up. For instance, Graendal with her angreal fought a few average Aes Sedai and killed one, and yet she managed to hold her own in the Last Battle against an onslought that included Cadsuane AND Talaan, and without her angreal. It's completely absurd and BS did less than basic research into the OP before he wrote his part. There are many other OP errors (Taim can't be shielded by will alone, for instance) in the last few books, and his answers to fans have also made me cringe in the past. I'm sorry if it sounds bitter but I suspect you two both agree that RJ's legacy has been handled horribly since his death.

Cadsuane's angreal logically makes her a ++1. She could deflect the power of any attack that hit her, and there were at least two ++2's going for her.

It's likely that two AS fall well short of a ++1 - we have actually seen Rand squash two at the same time like flies while feeling dazed, and with shields no less. Lews Therin himself says that he can handle three women if they aren't too strong, and one must be Forsaken strength to make his life difficult. That is highly similar to Egwene's statement that she could not overwhelm a Forsaken linked to Romanda and Lelaine, considering all three of them are weaker than even Moghedien. We also know from Liandrin that it will take about three of them to smother Moghedien.

We know that Amys' strength is vague in the series - one quote placing her alongside Moiraine, the other alongside Sheriam. I see nothing ridiculous about Egwene being able to overwhelm the two if she has a strength of 80 and they are at 40-50 each.

We also know that everyone has horribly underestimated the skill of the Forsaken. Alivia is stronger than Cyndane in raw strength alone, and even with a strong angreal and many protective ter'angreal she barely escaped with her life. I have strong doubts whether we can make any conclusions from the Cleansing. We only had a glimpse of it - we know from RJ that Semirhage also fought some of the circles, for instance. It's possible that Semirhage killed Eben or Kumira - it's chaos that we witnessed through a keyhole. We also don't know how powerful these mixed circles are, but it seems like the amplification is substantial.

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Sortable, searchable file of Channelers - 28/11/2015 10:01:57 PM 3174 Views
Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 04:15:17 PM 877 Views
Re: Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 06:53:40 PM 849 Views
Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 04:41:52 PM 987 Views
Re: Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 06:54:02 PM 896 Views
Quick Question - 30/11/2015 05:11:17 AM 991 Views
Nope - 30/11/2015 05:44:04 AM 1000 Views
They do say it - 30/11/2015 10:32:48 AM 1179 Views
I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 30/11/2015 03:21:00 PM 838 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 01/12/2015 08:02:01 AM 968 Views
Well, it also states that there are gradations within each level too - 01/12/2015 04:26:29 PM 1025 Views
Well maybe - 02/12/2015 06:31:05 AM 955 Views
Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 08:34:54 AM 1045 Views
I agree - 02/12/2015 04:22:52 PM 990 Views
Re: I agree - 02/12/2015 05:14:50 PM 1147 Views
It's always been confusing - 02/12/2015 06:00:01 PM 1096 Views
Re: It's always been confusing - 02/12/2015 07:27:11 PM 1116 Views
I wholeheartedly agree - 02/12/2015 08:07:39 PM 916 Views
Re: Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 04:46:54 PM 1154 Views
Morgase - 03/12/2015 04:37:47 AM 970 Views
I agree with you on this - 03/12/2015 03:22:22 PM 849 Views
Re: Morgase - 03/12/2015 07:46:59 PM 1112 Views
I didn't realize he was being literal in that comment - 03/12/2015 09:29:52 PM 967 Views
Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 03:52:49 PM 1067 Views
Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 04:42:37 PM 1130 Views
Probably - 02/12/2015 06:11:42 PM 915 Views
Re: Probably - 02/12/2015 07:38:50 PM 1055 Views
Indeed - 02/12/2015 08:21:07 PM 923 Views
Re: Indeed - 03/12/2015 04:08:03 AM 846 Views
close enough to not debate about it - 03/12/2015 03:47:55 PM 872 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it - 03/12/2015 04:14:38 PM 873 Views
I think you misunderstand what I'm saying - 03/12/2015 04:43:29 PM 907 Views
Re: I think you misunderstand what I'm saying - 03/12/2015 05:41:17 PM 952 Views
um, no - 03/12/2015 09:24:31 PM 866 Views
You two seem like Egwene's interchangeable defenders to me; it's weird to see you fighting. - 04/12/2015 09:21:23 PM 1067 Views
That's on you... - 04/12/2015 09:46:51 PM 888 Views
We've been arguing on the forums for like 10 years - 06/12/2015 07:36:55 PM 839 Views
It's Cannoli, Darius - 06/12/2015 08:53:06 PM 869 Views
LOL *NM* - 07/12/2015 03:26:40 AM 552 Views
Some points - 05/12/2015 11:14:30 AM 912 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it - 05/12/2015 11:29:44 AM 937 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 03/12/2015 07:22:15 AM 839 Views
Great job - 30/11/2015 05:45:27 AM 879 Views
Re: Great job - 30/11/2015 03:22:09 PM 857 Views
Made a few adjustments to add some presumed minimum/maximum levels *NM* - 30/11/2015 04:28:13 PM 601 Views
Some questions - 30/11/2015 05:18:00 PM 887 Views
Re: Some questions - 30/11/2015 07:26:29 PM 850 Views
Re: Some questions - 01/12/2015 08:05:01 AM 1051 Views
That's why I added another column to it - 01/12/2015 04:25:04 PM 922 Views
Some more - 01/12/2015 05:24:40 PM 935 Views
Re: Some more - 01/12/2015 07:34:20 PM 988 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 12:27:40 AM 982 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 02:26:53 AM 919 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 08:24:49 AM 923 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 05:54:49 PM 992 Views
Re: Some more - 03/12/2015 04:26:45 AM 828 Views
You said this much better than I did - 03/12/2015 03:53:57 PM 848 Views
I think the men are much too strong - 02/12/2015 09:01:56 AM 1041 Views
Yes - 02/12/2015 03:06:44 PM 897 Views
Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 04:45:20 PM 971 Views
Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 06:39:43 PM 1015 Views
Re: Yes - 03/12/2015 03:56:23 AM 844 Views
I think when characters quoted information from their world it gets muddled - 03/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 880 Views
Shielding - 05/12/2015 11:19:40 AM 846 Views
I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 06/12/2015 06:41:35 PM 823 Views
Re: I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 07/12/2015 12:39:54 PM 858 Views
seriously! - 07/12/2015 04:55:43 PM 877 Views
Who should defer to whom? - 01/12/2015 08:17:22 PM 1060 Views
Interesting... - 02/12/2015 08:44:32 AM 1002 Views
I think there needs to be a pretty significant (5+ levels) difference - 02/12/2015 06:25:35 PM 1049 Views
Good job - 05/12/2015 08:43:09 PM 1229 Views
Some questions - 06/12/2015 12:28:46 AM 894 Views
Can't offer much - 06/12/2015 12:33:29 AM 1084 Views
Cool. Hopefully Dom will see this... - 06/12/2015 08:58:39 PM 784 Views
Re: Some questions - 06/12/2015 08:06:56 PM 833 Views
Then there would be some mention of it, yes/ - 06/12/2015 08:56:10 PM 785 Views
Not at all ... He clearly had a general sense of how it worked - 07/12/2015 03:28:35 AM 800 Views
Re: Some questions - 07/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1059 Views
it probably has to do with the fact that the characters in the books are also obsessed with strength - 06/12/2015 07:58:20 PM 911 Views
Sort of. - 06/12/2015 10:30:36 PM 1241 Views
Makes sense - 07/12/2015 12:38:54 AM 806 Views
Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series - 07/12/2015 07:39:59 PM 1020 Views
Re: Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series - 10/12/2015 05:33:27 AM 852 Views
Probably something along those lines - 10/12/2015 03:44:48 PM 773 Views
Lifespan question (Spoiler) - 08/12/2015 05:42:41 PM 793 Views
Moiraine... - 09/12/2015 02:28:50 AM 856 Views
That too is possible - 09/12/2015 03:02:12 PM 830 Views
Some random trends/data points - 08/12/2015 08:39:14 PM 817 Views
Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:42:51 AM 575 Views
Re: Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. - 09/12/2015 02:31:18 PM 876 Views
Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 03:22:17 PM 741 Views
Re: Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 04:54:37 PM 890 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:36 PM 491 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:55 PM 527 Views
so.... - 09/12/2015 06:10:41 AM 880 Views
Nope... - 09/12/2015 03:24:07 PM 847 Views
Yes - 09/12/2015 03:46:30 PM 821 Views
Some things to consider - 09/12/2015 04:18:50 PM 809 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:43:35 AM 784 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 06:28:49 AM 748 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 11:53:51 AM 786 Views
Sorilea has always been shown as skilled - 10/12/2015 04:10:37 PM 817 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 04:46:29 PM 761 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:50:17 PM 781 Views
plenty of weaker ones with notably strong Talents actually - 10/12/2015 06:26:03 PM 878 Views
This is a flawed list - 11/12/2015 05:14:47 AM 781 Views
and you are just rationalizing to make your point seem plausible - 11/12/2015 03:10:12 PM 877 Views
another point about Talents (unrelated to the Strength question) - 11/12/2015 06:06:42 PM 972 Views
Not really - 11/12/2015 09:09:41 PM 819 Views
You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement - 11/12/2015 10:13:13 PM 854 Views
Re: You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement - 12/12/2015 06:46:05 AM 807 Views
Let's face it a body builder ninja is sort of funny to think about - 12/12/2015 02:55:37 PM 894 Views
Some quotes - 12/12/2015 01:18:41 AM 792 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 12/12/2015 03:18:30 AM 843 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 12/12/2015 06:19:15 AM 841 Views
Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! - 12/12/2015 03:15:26 PM 797 Views
Re: Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! - 13/12/2015 11:26:17 AM 812 Views
Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road - 14/12/2015 04:40:50 PM 784 Views
Re: Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road - 15/12/2015 06:01:58 AM 801 Views
I'm actually perplexed - 15/12/2015 07:19:27 AM 734 Views
Re: I'm actually perplexed - 17/12/2015 11:36:59 AM 839 Views
LOL ... Amen! *NM* - 15/12/2015 03:54:55 PM 533 Views
I don't think Elayne was that Strong in TSR - 10/12/2015 04:55:19 PM 804 Views
Yes and No - 09/12/2015 04:35:48 PM 786 Views
Re: Yes and No - 09/12/2015 10:41:32 PM 857 Views
Indeed - 09/12/2015 11:01:03 PM 807 Views
Ajah Strength Index - 09/12/2015 10:45:29 PM 850 Views
Greens... - 10/12/2015 12:24:11 AM 804 Views
Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 03:12:21 AM 737 Views
Re: Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 04:59:42 AM 799 Views
Re: Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 04:18:00 PM 769 Views
Re: Ajah Strength Index - 10/12/2015 05:40:39 AM 832 Views
I'm not so sure you'd have a chioce - 10/12/2015 04:01:35 PM 755 Views
Liandrin's 13 - 10/12/2015 09:14:50 PM 935 Views
Explain - 11/12/2015 05:16:55 AM 872 Views
Several reasons ... Edited for clarity - 11/12/2015 02:54:58 PM 883 Views
Bowl of the Winds Circle - 14/12/2015 09:41:33 PM 811 Views
The Cleansing Circles ... some speculation here - 15/12/2015 05:52:14 PM 775 Views
If I was Cadsuane I would have done it differently - 15/12/2015 10:01:07 PM 810 Views
Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 01:11:17 AM 938 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:54:28 AM 839 Views
mostly agree - 16/12/2015 06:27:06 PM 830 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:50:27 PM 942 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 17/12/2015 10:07:48 AM 983 Views
We do have some additional clues - 17/12/2015 06:26:20 PM 1007 Views
additional thought - 16/12/2015 06:49:04 PM 764 Views
Does she know that? - 16/12/2015 06:58:24 PM 927 Views
I'm speculating of course - 16/12/2015 07:37:10 PM 833 Views
Strength by National origin - 16/12/2015 09:04:11 PM 773 Views
Rebels v. Loyalists! - 16/12/2015 10:29:28 PM 908 Views
Tamra's known hunters - 04/01/2016 06:58:17 PM 861 Views
Known... - 05/01/2016 01:54:56 AM 726 Views
Re: Known... - 05/01/2016 02:55:50 AM 885 Views

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