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Re: Yes it was. Datakim Send a noteboard - 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM
Rand doesn't know; even his explanation of why he did this did not include greater knowledge of the mechanism. He just said Graendal was so dangerous that killing innocent souls to get rid of her was worthwhile. He's not the Creator, doesn't understand the higher laws of reality and neither are Nynaeve or Min. Truly, I think Cadsuane hit the nail on the head when she backed Min up - if Rand himself utilized balefire in such a way that reality wa destabilized and the Bore was torn open, it wouldn't matter if the balefired souls would be Reborn in one, two or whatever Turnings of the Wheel RJ specified - the Dark One would have destroyed reality in any case, and it would be Rand's fault.


Are you sure he does not know? AoLeres developed Balefire, LTT has much of that knowledge which means right now, so does Rand. It seems reasonable enough to me for Rand to know full well that balefire does not kill souls. And I have something which strongly suggests that this is true.

Liah.

In Shadar Logoth, Liah is caught by Mashadar. Rand has reason to believe that Mashadar is going to eat her soul, so in order to save her he destroys her with balefire, burning her thread back to before Mashadar caught her, killing Liah, but saving her soul.

Rand even mentions this specific event when she balefires Graendal and calls it a mercy, which it was. Now consider, if Rand believed or even had a reason to doubt that balefire destroyed souls, why would he have used that on Liah. Using balefire on Liah makes sense only if he thinks that death by balefire is better than death by Mashadar.

No, I think he knows full well, probably from LTT and research done in AoL what balefire does, and that it does not kill souls.


I mean, technically, carrying your line of argument to it's ultimate conclusion, it wouldn't even matter if you balefired a Forsaken because they would come back, anyway. They'd be removed from the field, but there are quite a lot of twisted entities such as Shaidar Haran or Slayer that technically speaking, are much more difficult for a Third Age channeler to comprehend or deal with.


I am not entirely sure I understand what you are saying here. I mean sure, balefired forsaken come back. But they dont come back as those personalities, and they come as new infants so they are no longer his enemies at that point, even if the soul is the same. Which is the whole point of using balefire.


I basically think, in the context of the overall story, that the WoT world is largely a post-apocalyptic one, and destabilizing the Pattern in any way when it is already frayed to the breaking point is not a good idea.


Not even to get rid of a forsaken who might destablize it even more? I have never claimed that Rand did no damage, just that thanks to LTT and the knowledge of balefire he has from the WoP, he is better equipped to judge the damage done to the pattern than anyone else alive.
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Rand the psycho? - 06/01/2010 02:53:30 AM 1702 Views
I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:07:33 AM 1108 Views
On Balefire - 06/01/2010 04:43:18 AM 1105 Views
Good point - 06/01/2010 05:04:26 AM 1131 Views
On the nature of BaleFire - 06/01/2010 03:32:25 PM 1030 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:59:12 AM 928 Views
Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:10:33 AM 1044 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:20:02 AM 953 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:58:00 AM 941 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 11:46:13 AM 883 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 03:55:01 PM 895 Views
I disagree - 06/01/2010 05:42:44 PM 848 Views
Re: I disagree - 06/01/2010 06:41:08 PM 883 Views
Re: I disagree - 07/01/2010 04:42:40 AM 872 Views
I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 07:30:56 AM 1002 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 03:32:24 PM 905 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 09:52:47 PM 979 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 11:19:56 PM 909 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:21:50 AM 964 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:56:26 AM 900 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 01:46:16 AM 960 Views
I agree with Templar - 09/01/2010 04:36:20 PM 870 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 07:57:54 AM 992 Views
Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 02:36:42 PM 1000 Views
Re: Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 04:16:12 PM 940 Views
But... - 06/01/2010 04:34:02 PM 1029 Views
Re: But... - 06/01/2010 06:14:25 PM 836 Views
Doesn't Balefire remove your thread from the Pattern permanently? - 06/01/2010 02:55:38 PM 979 Views
No, RJ stated balefired people can be reborn. *NM* - 06/01/2010 03:26:00 PM 477 Views
But not in this turning of the Wheel. So they'd miss out on MANY lifetimes. - 06/01/2010 05:46:04 PM 908 Views
What? - 06/01/2010 06:20:56 PM 922 Views
Where did you get that? - 06/01/2010 07:09:38 PM 873 Views
No, balefire just kills you backwards in time. It is not super-death. *NM* - 06/01/2010 09:58:18 PM 493 Views
LOL ... super-death! - 06/01/2010 11:59:31 PM 845 Views
Hah! *NM* - 07/01/2010 12:06:07 AM 487 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:20 AM 864 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:33 AM 832 Views
Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 06:51:15 PM 979 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 07:16:14 PM 902 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 08:58:40 PM 929 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM 930 Views
let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:26:43 PM 920 Views
Re: let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:40:56 PM 915 Views
actually that quote supports my thoughts - 06/01/2010 11:50:40 PM 961 Views
Re: actually that quote supports my thoughts - 07/01/2010 12:10:07 AM 868 Views
Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take. - 07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM 982 Views
Sigh. What mass murder? - 07/01/2010 12:15:01 AM 817 Views
you are kidding right? - 07/01/2010 12:19:58 AM 922 Views
In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:14:32 PM 883 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:57:43 PM 909 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:13:21 PM 919 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:52:24 PM 858 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 08:56:43 PM 939 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:26:01 PM 877 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:30:45 PM 811 Views
Personally I'm kind of sick of Rand being the only person killing FS! - 07/01/2010 09:42:57 PM 978 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM 925 Views
OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 07/01/2010 10:30:19 PM 924 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 01:53:25 PM 875 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 02:56:41 PM 908 Views
What might work... - 08/01/2010 12:35:17 PM 819 Views
Re: What might work... - 08/01/2010 11:38:09 PM 837 Views
Yes. Anakin Skywalker all over again - 06/01/2010 11:01:02 PM 1001 Views
Meh - 06/01/2010 11:30:24 PM 838 Views
The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:33:32 PM 841 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:50:37 PM 929 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:55:03 PM 895 Views
I do have to guiltily say, though, that if Rand had balefired the Seanchan and THEN became good... - 07/01/2010 12:03:20 AM 907 Views
*laughs behind hand* - 07/01/2010 12:05:54 AM 966 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 07/01/2010 12:23:11 AM 831 Views
I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 12:52:25 AM 857 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 01:24:32 AM 921 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 03:33:52 PM 854 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM 998 Views
right cause all Generals are so well versed in medical conditions - 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM 957 Views
Nice way to avoid the argument. - 07/01/2010 10:00:17 PM 900 Views
I'm just done talking in circles. You seem to think that because people - 07/01/2010 11:53:05 PM 930 Views
I concede - 07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM 836 Views
You weren't wrong overall, but there were some serious flaws in your reasoning. - 07/01/2010 02:43:17 AM 964 Views
Tee hee. - 07/01/2010 05:28:52 AM 903 Views
Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 06:23:09 AM 920 Views
Re: Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 03:23:59 PM 843 Views
I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 12:00:02 AM 917 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 05:56:16 PM 1093 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 18/01/2010 01:00:23 PM 1222 Views
Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 11/01/2010 04:47:10 PM 814 Views
Re: Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 18/01/2010 12:49:26 PM 865 Views

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