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Re: Yes it was. Datakim Send a noteboard - 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM
Rand doesn't know; even his explanation of why he did this did not include greater knowledge of the mechanism. He just said Graendal was so dangerous that killing innocent souls to get rid of her was worthwhile. He's not the Creator, doesn't understand the higher laws of reality and neither are Nynaeve or Min. Truly, I think Cadsuane hit the nail on the head when she backed Min up - if Rand himself utilized balefire in such a way that reality wa destabilized and the Bore was torn open, it wouldn't matter if the balefired souls would be Reborn in one, two or whatever Turnings of the Wheel RJ specified - the Dark One would have destroyed reality in any case, and it would be Rand's fault.


Are you sure he does not know? AoLeres developed Balefire, LTT has much of that knowledge which means right now, so does Rand. It seems reasonable enough to me for Rand to know full well that balefire does not kill souls. And I have something which strongly suggests that this is true.

Liah.

In Shadar Logoth, Liah is caught by Mashadar. Rand has reason to believe that Mashadar is going to eat her soul, so in order to save her he destroys her with balefire, burning her thread back to before Mashadar caught her, killing Liah, but saving her soul.

Rand even mentions this specific event when she balefires Graendal and calls it a mercy, which it was. Now consider, if Rand believed or even had a reason to doubt that balefire destroyed souls, why would he have used that on Liah. Using balefire on Liah makes sense only if he thinks that death by balefire is better than death by Mashadar.

No, I think he knows full well, probably from LTT and research done in AoL what balefire does, and that it does not kill souls.


I mean, technically, carrying your line of argument to it's ultimate conclusion, it wouldn't even matter if you balefired a Forsaken because they would come back, anyway. They'd be removed from the field, but there are quite a lot of twisted entities such as Shaidar Haran or Slayer that technically speaking, are much more difficult for a Third Age channeler to comprehend or deal with.


I am not entirely sure I understand what you are saying here. I mean sure, balefired forsaken come back. But they dont come back as those personalities, and they come as new infants so they are no longer his enemies at that point, even if the soul is the same. Which is the whole point of using balefire.


I basically think, in the context of the overall story, that the WoT world is largely a post-apocalyptic one, and destabilizing the Pattern in any way when it is already frayed to the breaking point is not a good idea.


Not even to get rid of a forsaken who might destablize it even more? I have never claimed that Rand did no damage, just that thanks to LTT and the knowledge of balefire he has from the WoP, he is better equipped to judge the damage done to the pattern than anyone else alive.
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Rand the psycho? - 06/01/2010 02:53:30 AM 1800 Views
I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:07:33 AM 1210 Views
On Balefire - 06/01/2010 04:43:18 AM 1205 Views
Good point - 06/01/2010 05:04:26 AM 1219 Views
On the nature of BaleFire - 06/01/2010 03:32:25 PM 1130 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:59:12 AM 1040 Views
Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:10:33 AM 1119 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:20:02 AM 1033 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:58:00 AM 1020 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 11:46:13 AM 996 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 03:55:01 PM 1000 Views
I disagree - 06/01/2010 05:42:44 PM 950 Views
Re: I disagree - 06/01/2010 06:41:08 PM 986 Views
Re: I disagree - 07/01/2010 04:42:40 AM 968 Views
I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 07:30:56 AM 1088 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 03:32:24 PM 987 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 09:52:47 PM 1090 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 11:19:56 PM 1008 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:21:50 AM 1065 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:56:26 AM 994 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 01:46:16 AM 1062 Views
I agree with Templar - 09/01/2010 04:36:20 PM 958 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 07:57:54 AM 1095 Views
Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 02:36:42 PM 1098 Views
Re: Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 04:16:12 PM 1056 Views
But... - 06/01/2010 04:34:02 PM 1133 Views
Re: But... - 06/01/2010 06:14:25 PM 933 Views
Doesn't Balefire remove your thread from the Pattern permanently? - 06/01/2010 02:55:38 PM 1084 Views
No, RJ stated balefired people can be reborn. *NM* - 06/01/2010 03:26:00 PM 524 Views
But not in this turning of the Wheel. So they'd miss out on MANY lifetimes. - 06/01/2010 05:46:04 PM 987 Views
What? - 06/01/2010 06:20:56 PM 1002 Views
Where did you get that? - 06/01/2010 07:09:38 PM 968 Views
No, balefire just kills you backwards in time. It is not super-death. *NM* - 06/01/2010 09:58:18 PM 532 Views
LOL ... super-death! - 06/01/2010 11:59:31 PM 934 Views
Hah! *NM* - 07/01/2010 12:06:07 AM 527 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:20 AM 968 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:33 AM 924 Views
Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 06:51:15 PM 1069 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 07:16:14 PM 1028 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 08:58:40 PM 1024 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM 1024 Views
let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:26:43 PM 1030 Views
Re: let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:40:56 PM 1007 Views
actually that quote supports my thoughts - 06/01/2010 11:50:40 PM 1071 Views
Re: actually that quote supports my thoughts - 07/01/2010 12:10:07 AM 962 Views
Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take. - 07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM 1069 Views
Sigh. What mass murder? - 07/01/2010 12:15:01 AM 912 Views
you are kidding right? - 07/01/2010 12:19:58 AM 1010 Views
In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:14:32 PM 984 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:57:43 PM 1006 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:13:21 PM 1010 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:52:24 PM 936 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 08:56:43 PM 1021 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:26:01 PM 985 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:30:45 PM 910 Views
Personally I'm kind of sick of Rand being the only person killing FS! - 07/01/2010 09:42:57 PM 1069 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM 1027 Views
OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 07/01/2010 10:30:19 PM 1029 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 01:53:25 PM 966 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 02:56:41 PM 1002 Views
What might work... - 08/01/2010 12:35:17 PM 906 Views
Re: What might work... - 08/01/2010 11:38:09 PM 925 Views
Yes. Anakin Skywalker all over again - 06/01/2010 11:01:02 PM 1096 Views
Meh - 06/01/2010 11:30:24 PM 931 Views
The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:33:32 PM 932 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:50:37 PM 1030 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:55:03 PM 998 Views
I do have to guiltily say, though, that if Rand had balefired the Seanchan and THEN became good... - 07/01/2010 12:03:20 AM 987 Views
*laughs behind hand* - 07/01/2010 12:05:54 AM 1064 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 07/01/2010 12:23:11 AM 914 Views
I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 12:52:25 AM 966 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 01:24:32 AM 1020 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 03:33:52 PM 947 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM 1096 Views
right cause all Generals are so well versed in medical conditions - 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM 1065 Views
Nice way to avoid the argument. - 07/01/2010 10:00:17 PM 993 Views
I'm just done talking in circles. You seem to think that because people - 07/01/2010 11:53:05 PM 1031 Views
I concede - 07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM 928 Views
You weren't wrong overall, but there were some serious flaws in your reasoning. - 07/01/2010 02:43:17 AM 1066 Views
Tee hee. - 07/01/2010 05:28:52 AM 1007 Views
Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 06:23:09 AM 1008 Views
Re: Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 03:23:59 PM 946 Views
I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 12:00:02 AM 1021 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 05:56:16 PM 1197 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 18/01/2010 01:00:23 PM 1331 Views
Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 11/01/2010 04:47:10 PM 907 Views
Re: Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 18/01/2010 12:49:26 PM 938 Views

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