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Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing Datakim Send a noteboard - 07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM

In Rands place I would have chased Graendal off and seen what could have been done for her slaves. AoL inability or not the humane thing to do is try! My point with Healing Stilling wasn't to say that Nynaeve is better than everyone. The point is even things that the Restorers of the AoL took for granted as "unhealable" have in fact been healed ... Rand is working on a faulty assumption based on an opinion formed by a less than expert "witness". What he did was commit mass murder, him rationalizing it as "mercy killing" doesn't make it right, or even okay IMO.


I think LTT, the leader of the AS and the one in charge of the whole damn war effort would know better than anyone how compulsion works and what Graendal could do. I mean it was LTT that told Nynaeve how to unravel compulsion in the first place. I would most certainly consider him to be an "expert witness". Certainly he knows better than Nynaeve.

Infact, I have often suspected that the reason a way to heal stilling was not discovered in the AoL, was because no one really tried all that hard.

Consider, who were the ones who got severed in the AoL. Criminals who committed severe crimes and refused to be bound in the binding rod. Why would an AS highly skilled in healing spend time and effort trying to reverse that, when she could rather spend her efforts healing the truly innocent sick. Given that they knew a lot more about ter'angreal and their training was better. I doubt accidental severings happened all that often, if at all. So essentially, if you got severed, you deserved it, and no one was going to waste their time looking for a way to heal you.

That might have changed in the war of power. But again it seems likely that if you got severed in a battle, the opposing channeler probably killed you instantly afterwards. With ways to heal mental illnesses(compulsion used properly), and advanced tech (shocklances), even a severed channeler was a potential threat afterall. Better to kill him quickly once he was unable to defend himself.

So it seems likely that even then, severed channelers did not happen all that often. And there would have been a LOT of injuries among the population, injuries that desperately needed the restorers. Would it really make sense to dedicate resources to researching something that would not be all THAT usefull in such a situation, when that research would mean taking restorers away from their other duties and letting potentially thousands of people (soldiers and civilians) die.

So I suspect that if the AoL restorers had truly put their heads together and researched the matter thoroughly, they would have found a way to do what Nynaeve did. It did not seem all THAT complex afterall. But as they say, necessity is the mother of invention, and in the AoL the necessacity was not there. So essentially Nynaeves discovery, while cool, does not in any way make her superiour/better to the far more skilled and experienced AoL restorers.

I do believe however that what happened to Graendals victims is something that was researched thoroughly. It seems probable that Graendals victims were mostly high ranking people with important skills and such, and healing them would have been important to the war effort. Becoming a braindead zombie was probably very terrifying aswell, more so than just being killed I would say. So from that perspective, it seems likely that it was studied. And compulsion was well understood by all, since it was used regularly to heal mental illnesses. And yet, despite all of that, the damage done by Graendal was irreversible, even to people who know MUCH more than Nynaeve. And LTT would have been there, reading the reports from those restorers.

So essentially, when LTT says that there is nothing that can be done, with the experience of tens or hundreds of AoL restorers backing him up, I choose to believe that he was right. What happened to the innocents that Graendal took was tragic, but they were most likely beyond help.

And what about the others?

By driving Graendal off, even when he had the chance to kill her, would that not make Rand indirectly responsible for every victim of Graendals in the future.

Hundreds of healthy people would be captured and mind-raped to get Graendal new pets and servants. People that would otherwise have continued to live normal lives. Do you think their families would be happy that Rand made it possible for their loved ones to be mindraped and destroyed, in order to save a group of zombies who had a VERY low chance of recovery?

And what about the chaos Graendal would continue to cause? The damage to society she would bring. Order and Belief bring strength. What happened in Arad Doman is a good example of the utter devastation that Graendal is capable of doing with her subtle manipulations.

What if letting Graendal go here just to save the drones ended up losing Rand the fight entirely? What if in retaliation, Graendal had Min assassinated to fullfill Moridins command about bringing Rand pain, driving him so badly insane that not even the revelation he had at the end would have fixed him?

I don't think there was an absolutely perfect solution here. But Rand chose the best one available. The one that he knew would achieve the most good in the long run.
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Rand the psycho? - 06/01/2010 02:53:30 AM 1800 Views
I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:07:33 AM 1210 Views
On Balefire - 06/01/2010 04:43:18 AM 1205 Views
Good point - 06/01/2010 05:04:26 AM 1220 Views
On the nature of BaleFire - 06/01/2010 03:32:25 PM 1130 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:59:12 AM 1040 Views
Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:10:33 AM 1119 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:20:02 AM 1033 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:58:00 AM 1020 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 11:46:13 AM 996 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 03:55:01 PM 1000 Views
I disagree - 06/01/2010 05:42:44 PM 950 Views
Re: I disagree - 06/01/2010 06:41:08 PM 987 Views
Re: I disagree - 07/01/2010 04:42:40 AM 968 Views
I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 07:30:56 AM 1089 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 03:32:24 PM 987 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 09:52:47 PM 1090 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 11:19:56 PM 1008 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:21:50 AM 1065 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:56:26 AM 994 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 01:46:16 AM 1062 Views
I agree with Templar - 09/01/2010 04:36:20 PM 958 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 07:57:54 AM 1095 Views
Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 02:36:42 PM 1098 Views
Re: Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 04:16:12 PM 1056 Views
But... - 06/01/2010 04:34:02 PM 1133 Views
Re: But... - 06/01/2010 06:14:25 PM 934 Views
Doesn't Balefire remove your thread from the Pattern permanently? - 06/01/2010 02:55:38 PM 1084 Views
No, RJ stated balefired people can be reborn. *NM* - 06/01/2010 03:26:00 PM 525 Views
But not in this turning of the Wheel. So they'd miss out on MANY lifetimes. - 06/01/2010 05:46:04 PM 988 Views
What? - 06/01/2010 06:20:56 PM 1002 Views
Where did you get that? - 06/01/2010 07:09:38 PM 968 Views
No, balefire just kills you backwards in time. It is not super-death. *NM* - 06/01/2010 09:58:18 PM 532 Views
LOL ... super-death! - 06/01/2010 11:59:31 PM 934 Views
Hah! *NM* - 07/01/2010 12:06:07 AM 528 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:20 AM 968 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:33 AM 924 Views
Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 06:51:15 PM 1069 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 07:16:14 PM 1029 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 08:58:40 PM 1024 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM 1024 Views
let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:26:43 PM 1030 Views
Re: let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:40:56 PM 1007 Views
actually that quote supports my thoughts - 06/01/2010 11:50:40 PM 1072 Views
Re: actually that quote supports my thoughts - 07/01/2010 12:10:07 AM 962 Views
Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take. - 07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM 1069 Views
Sigh. What mass murder? - 07/01/2010 12:15:01 AM 912 Views
you are kidding right? - 07/01/2010 12:19:58 AM 1010 Views
In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:14:32 PM 985 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:57:43 PM 1006 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:13:21 PM 1010 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:52:24 PM 936 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 08:56:43 PM 1021 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:26:01 PM 986 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:30:45 PM 911 Views
Personally I'm kind of sick of Rand being the only person killing FS! - 07/01/2010 09:42:57 PM 1070 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM 1027 Views
OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 07/01/2010 10:30:19 PM 1029 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 01:53:25 PM 966 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 02:56:41 PM 1002 Views
What might work... - 08/01/2010 12:35:17 PM 906 Views
Re: What might work... - 08/01/2010 11:38:09 PM 925 Views
Yes. Anakin Skywalker all over again - 06/01/2010 11:01:02 PM 1096 Views
Meh - 06/01/2010 11:30:24 PM 931 Views
The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:33:32 PM 933 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:50:37 PM 1030 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:55:03 PM 998 Views
I do have to guiltily say, though, that if Rand had balefired the Seanchan and THEN became good... - 07/01/2010 12:03:20 AM 987 Views
*laughs behind hand* - 07/01/2010 12:05:54 AM 1064 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 07/01/2010 12:23:11 AM 914 Views
I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 12:52:25 AM 966 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 01:24:32 AM 1020 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 03:33:52 PM 947 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM 1097 Views
right cause all Generals are so well versed in medical conditions - 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM 1065 Views
Nice way to avoid the argument. - 07/01/2010 10:00:17 PM 993 Views
I'm just done talking in circles. You seem to think that because people - 07/01/2010 11:53:05 PM 1031 Views
I concede - 07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM 928 Views
You weren't wrong overall, but there were some serious flaws in your reasoning. - 07/01/2010 02:43:17 AM 1066 Views
Tee hee. - 07/01/2010 05:28:52 AM 1007 Views
Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 06:23:09 AM 1010 Views
Re: Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 03:23:59 PM 946 Views
I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 12:00:02 AM 1021 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 05:56:16 PM 1198 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 18/01/2010 01:00:23 PM 1331 Views
Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 11/01/2010 04:47:10 PM 907 Views
Re: Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 18/01/2010 12:49:26 PM 939 Views

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