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Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. Datakim Send a noteboard - 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM
Rand Travels in disguised under an illusion of invisibility, tracks Graendal down by advancing through her palace and balefires her while she is bathing.


Triggers wards like Sammaels, Graendal flees.


Or a re-use of the Rahvin Scenario: Rand Travels in with a fighting force with orders to only kill those Compelled to attack them, he brings Nynayeve/Cadsuane/random Aes Sedai in his retinue/Wondergirl/a channeling member of his harem/Wise Ones in to detect saidar. Graendal has some sort of defense that doesn't take him out, he chases her down preventing her Gateways from opening all the way each time she tries and finally balefires her just as she's about to escape through an inverted Gateway.


How will Rand chase her? How will he prevent her gateways from opening all the way? How will he reach her in time when she could be anywhere in the palace and she will flee at the instant she senses trouble.

I suppose you could argue that Rand's tav'eren nature would make it so that he could just randomly open a gateway anywhere and accidentally open it ontop of Graendal. But if I start accepting explanations like that, any debate becomes meaningless.

Oh, and I love how you just mention "Graendal has some sort of defense that doesn't take him out" as if its the most natural thing in the world. For all we know Rand would have perished the instant he went anywhere near. Graendal has had months or years even to prepare her little fort with countless wards and traps.

The point is that Rand/LTT makes it clear that this kind of surprise attack is not possible. Since you did not read that part of the book, I will write it for you here.


How? How can I kill a foe who is more clever than myself, a foe who is _impossible to surprise_ yet who is also _unwilling to confront me_?


I think LTT knows Graendal better than you do. If he says she is impossible to surprise, I believe him. And that means your suggestions will not work.

That was the whole _point_ of the scene and this whole thing. That surprising or confronting Graendal the way he did Rahvin and the others is simply not possible. Thats how Graendal operates. To accept your plans, would mean accepting that Graendal is not actually Graendal.
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Rand the psycho? - 06/01/2010 02:53:30 AM 1800 Views
I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:07:33 AM 1210 Views
On Balefire - 06/01/2010 04:43:18 AM 1205 Views
Good point - 06/01/2010 05:04:26 AM 1220 Views
On the nature of BaleFire - 06/01/2010 03:32:25 PM 1131 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:59:12 AM 1040 Views
Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:10:33 AM 1119 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:20:02 AM 1033 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:58:00 AM 1021 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 11:46:13 AM 997 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 03:55:01 PM 1000 Views
I disagree - 06/01/2010 05:42:44 PM 950 Views
Re: I disagree - 06/01/2010 06:41:08 PM 987 Views
Re: I disagree - 07/01/2010 04:42:40 AM 969 Views
I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 07:30:56 AM 1089 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 03:32:24 PM 987 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 09:52:47 PM 1090 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 11:19:56 PM 1008 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:21:50 AM 1065 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:56:26 AM 994 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 01:46:16 AM 1062 Views
I agree with Templar - 09/01/2010 04:36:20 PM 958 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 07:57:54 AM 1095 Views
Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 02:36:42 PM 1098 Views
Re: Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 04:16:12 PM 1056 Views
But... - 06/01/2010 04:34:02 PM 1133 Views
Re: But... - 06/01/2010 06:14:25 PM 934 Views
Doesn't Balefire remove your thread from the Pattern permanently? - 06/01/2010 02:55:38 PM 1084 Views
No, RJ stated balefired people can be reborn. *NM* - 06/01/2010 03:26:00 PM 525 Views
But not in this turning of the Wheel. So they'd miss out on MANY lifetimes. - 06/01/2010 05:46:04 PM 988 Views
What? - 06/01/2010 06:20:56 PM 1003 Views
Where did you get that? - 06/01/2010 07:09:38 PM 968 Views
No, balefire just kills you backwards in time. It is not super-death. *NM* - 06/01/2010 09:58:18 PM 532 Views
LOL ... super-death! - 06/01/2010 11:59:31 PM 934 Views
Hah! *NM* - 07/01/2010 12:06:07 AM 528 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:20 AM 968 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:33 AM 924 Views
Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 06:51:15 PM 1069 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 07:16:14 PM 1029 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 08:58:40 PM 1024 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM 1024 Views
let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:26:43 PM 1030 Views
Re: let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:40:56 PM 1007 Views
actually that quote supports my thoughts - 06/01/2010 11:50:40 PM 1072 Views
Re: actually that quote supports my thoughts - 07/01/2010 12:10:07 AM 962 Views
Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take. - 07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM 1069 Views
Sigh. What mass murder? - 07/01/2010 12:15:01 AM 912 Views
you are kidding right? - 07/01/2010 12:19:58 AM 1010 Views
In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:14:32 PM 985 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:57:43 PM 1007 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:13:21 PM 1011 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:52:24 PM 936 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 08:56:43 PM 1021 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:26:01 PM 986 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:30:45 PM 911 Views
Personally I'm kind of sick of Rand being the only person killing FS! - 07/01/2010 09:42:57 PM 1070 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM 1028 Views
OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 07/01/2010 10:30:19 PM 1029 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 01:53:25 PM 966 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 02:56:41 PM 1002 Views
What might work... - 08/01/2010 12:35:17 PM 906 Views
Re: What might work... - 08/01/2010 11:38:09 PM 925 Views
Yes. Anakin Skywalker all over again - 06/01/2010 11:01:02 PM 1096 Views
Meh - 06/01/2010 11:30:24 PM 931 Views
The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:33:32 PM 933 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:50:37 PM 1030 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:55:03 PM 998 Views
I do have to guiltily say, though, that if Rand had balefired the Seanchan and THEN became good... - 07/01/2010 12:03:20 AM 987 Views
*laughs behind hand* - 07/01/2010 12:05:54 AM 1064 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 07/01/2010 12:23:11 AM 914 Views
I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 12:52:25 AM 966 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 01:24:32 AM 1020 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 03:33:52 PM 947 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM 1097 Views
right cause all Generals are so well versed in medical conditions - 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM 1066 Views
Nice way to avoid the argument. - 07/01/2010 10:00:17 PM 994 Views
I'm just done talking in circles. You seem to think that because people - 07/01/2010 11:53:05 PM 1031 Views
I concede - 07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM 928 Views
You weren't wrong overall, but there were some serious flaws in your reasoning. - 07/01/2010 02:43:17 AM 1066 Views
Tee hee. - 07/01/2010 05:28:52 AM 1007 Views
Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 06:23:09 AM 1010 Views
Re: Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 03:23:59 PM 946 Views
I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 12:00:02 AM 1021 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 05:56:16 PM 1198 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 18/01/2010 01:00:23 PM 1331 Views
Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 11/01/2010 04:47:10 PM 907 Views
Re: Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 18/01/2010 12:49:26 PM 939 Views

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