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Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. Datakim Send a noteboard - 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM
Rand Travels in disguised under an illusion of invisibility, tracks Graendal down by advancing through her palace and balefires her while she is bathing.


Triggers wards like Sammaels, Graendal flees.


Or a re-use of the Rahvin Scenario: Rand Travels in with a fighting force with orders to only kill those Compelled to attack them, he brings Nynayeve/Cadsuane/random Aes Sedai in his retinue/Wondergirl/a channeling member of his harem/Wise Ones in to detect saidar. Graendal has some sort of defense that doesn't take him out, he chases her down preventing her Gateways from opening all the way each time she tries and finally balefires her just as she's about to escape through an inverted Gateway.


How will Rand chase her? How will he prevent her gateways from opening all the way? How will he reach her in time when she could be anywhere in the palace and she will flee at the instant she senses trouble.

I suppose you could argue that Rand's tav'eren nature would make it so that he could just randomly open a gateway anywhere and accidentally open it ontop of Graendal. But if I start accepting explanations like that, any debate becomes meaningless.

Oh, and I love how you just mention "Graendal has some sort of defense that doesn't take him out" as if its the most natural thing in the world. For all we know Rand would have perished the instant he went anywhere near. Graendal has had months or years even to prepare her little fort with countless wards and traps.

The point is that Rand/LTT makes it clear that this kind of surprise attack is not possible. Since you did not read that part of the book, I will write it for you here.


How? How can I kill a foe who is more clever than myself, a foe who is _impossible to surprise_ yet who is also _unwilling to confront me_?


I think LTT knows Graendal better than you do. If he says she is impossible to surprise, I believe him. And that means your suggestions will not work.

That was the whole _point_ of the scene and this whole thing. That surprising or confronting Graendal the way he did Rahvin and the others is simply not possible. Thats how Graendal operates. To accept your plans, would mean accepting that Graendal is not actually Graendal.
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Rand the psycho? - 06/01/2010 02:53:30 AM 1701 Views
I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:07:33 AM 1108 Views
On Balefire - 06/01/2010 04:43:18 AM 1103 Views
Good point - 06/01/2010 05:04:26 AM 1130 Views
On the nature of BaleFire - 06/01/2010 03:32:25 PM 1029 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:59:12 AM 928 Views
Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:10:33 AM 1044 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:20:02 AM 952 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:58:00 AM 940 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 11:46:13 AM 882 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 03:55:01 PM 894 Views
I disagree - 06/01/2010 05:42:44 PM 848 Views
Re: I disagree - 06/01/2010 06:41:08 PM 883 Views
Re: I disagree - 07/01/2010 04:42:40 AM 872 Views
I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 07:30:56 AM 1001 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 03:32:24 PM 904 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 09:52:47 PM 978 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 11:19:56 PM 908 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:21:50 AM 963 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:56:26 AM 899 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 01:46:16 AM 960 Views
I agree with Templar - 09/01/2010 04:36:20 PM 869 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 07:57:54 AM 991 Views
Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 02:36:42 PM 999 Views
Re: Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 04:16:12 PM 939 Views
But... - 06/01/2010 04:34:02 PM 1029 Views
Re: But... - 06/01/2010 06:14:25 PM 835 Views
Doesn't Balefire remove your thread from the Pattern permanently? - 06/01/2010 02:55:38 PM 979 Views
No, RJ stated balefired people can be reborn. *NM* - 06/01/2010 03:26:00 PM 476 Views
But not in this turning of the Wheel. So they'd miss out on MANY lifetimes. - 06/01/2010 05:46:04 PM 908 Views
What? - 06/01/2010 06:20:56 PM 922 Views
Where did you get that? - 06/01/2010 07:09:38 PM 873 Views
No, balefire just kills you backwards in time. It is not super-death. *NM* - 06/01/2010 09:58:18 PM 492 Views
LOL ... super-death! - 06/01/2010 11:59:31 PM 844 Views
Hah! *NM* - 07/01/2010 12:06:07 AM 486 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:20 AM 864 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:33 AM 830 Views
Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 06:51:15 PM 979 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 07:16:14 PM 902 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 08:58:40 PM 928 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM 929 Views
let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:26:43 PM 919 Views
Re: let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:40:56 PM 914 Views
actually that quote supports my thoughts - 06/01/2010 11:50:40 PM 960 Views
Re: actually that quote supports my thoughts - 07/01/2010 12:10:07 AM 867 Views
Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take. - 07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM 982 Views
Sigh. What mass murder? - 07/01/2010 12:15:01 AM 816 Views
you are kidding right? - 07/01/2010 12:19:58 AM 921 Views
In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:14:32 PM 883 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:57:43 PM 908 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:13:21 PM 919 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:52:24 PM 857 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 08:56:43 PM 938 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:26:01 PM 876 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:30:45 PM 810 Views
Personally I'm kind of sick of Rand being the only person killing FS! - 07/01/2010 09:42:57 PM 977 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM 925 Views
OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 07/01/2010 10:30:19 PM 923 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 01:53:25 PM 874 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 02:56:41 PM 907 Views
What might work... - 08/01/2010 12:35:17 PM 818 Views
Re: What might work... - 08/01/2010 11:38:09 PM 836 Views
Yes. Anakin Skywalker all over again - 06/01/2010 11:01:02 PM 1000 Views
Meh - 06/01/2010 11:30:24 PM 838 Views
The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:33:32 PM 840 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:50:37 PM 928 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:55:03 PM 894 Views
I do have to guiltily say, though, that if Rand had balefired the Seanchan and THEN became good... - 07/01/2010 12:03:20 AM 906 Views
*laughs behind hand* - 07/01/2010 12:05:54 AM 966 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 07/01/2010 12:23:11 AM 830 Views
I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 12:52:25 AM 857 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 01:24:32 AM 921 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 03:33:52 PM 854 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM 998 Views
right cause all Generals are so well versed in medical conditions - 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM 956 Views
Nice way to avoid the argument. - 07/01/2010 10:00:17 PM 899 Views
I'm just done talking in circles. You seem to think that because people - 07/01/2010 11:53:05 PM 929 Views
I concede - 07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM 835 Views
You weren't wrong overall, but there were some serious flaws in your reasoning. - 07/01/2010 02:43:17 AM 964 Views
Tee hee. - 07/01/2010 05:28:52 AM 902 Views
Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 06:23:09 AM 920 Views
Re: Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 03:23:59 PM 842 Views
I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 12:00:02 AM 917 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 05:56:16 PM 1092 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 18/01/2010 01:00:23 PM 1222 Views
Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 11/01/2010 04:47:10 PM 814 Views
Re: Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 18/01/2010 12:49:26 PM 865 Views

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