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Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. Datakim Send a noteboard - 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM
Rand Travels in disguised under an illusion of invisibility, tracks Graendal down by advancing through her palace and balefires her while she is bathing.


Triggers wards like Sammaels, Graendal flees.


Or a re-use of the Rahvin Scenario: Rand Travels in with a fighting force with orders to only kill those Compelled to attack them, he brings Nynayeve/Cadsuane/random Aes Sedai in his retinue/Wondergirl/a channeling member of his harem/Wise Ones in to detect saidar. Graendal has some sort of defense that doesn't take him out, he chases her down preventing her Gateways from opening all the way each time she tries and finally balefires her just as she's about to escape through an inverted Gateway.


How will Rand chase her? How will he prevent her gateways from opening all the way? How will he reach her in time when she could be anywhere in the palace and she will flee at the instant she senses trouble.

I suppose you could argue that Rand's tav'eren nature would make it so that he could just randomly open a gateway anywhere and accidentally open it ontop of Graendal. But if I start accepting explanations like that, any debate becomes meaningless.

Oh, and I love how you just mention "Graendal has some sort of defense that doesn't take him out" as if its the most natural thing in the world. For all we know Rand would have perished the instant he went anywhere near. Graendal has had months or years even to prepare her little fort with countless wards and traps.

The point is that Rand/LTT makes it clear that this kind of surprise attack is not possible. Since you did not read that part of the book, I will write it for you here.


How? How can I kill a foe who is more clever than myself, a foe who is _impossible to surprise_ yet who is also _unwilling to confront me_?


I think LTT knows Graendal better than you do. If he says she is impossible to surprise, I believe him. And that means your suggestions will not work.

That was the whole _point_ of the scene and this whole thing. That surprising or confronting Graendal the way he did Rahvin and the others is simply not possible. Thats how Graendal operates. To accept your plans, would mean accepting that Graendal is not actually Graendal.
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Rand the psycho? - 06/01/2010 02:53:30 AM 1660 Views
I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:07:33 AM 1064 Views
On Balefire - 06/01/2010 04:43:18 AM 1064 Views
Good point - 06/01/2010 05:04:26 AM 1108 Views
On the nature of BaleFire - 06/01/2010 03:32:25 PM 998 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:59:12 AM 894 Views
Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:10:33 AM 1019 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:20:02 AM 925 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:58:00 AM 897 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 11:46:13 AM 847 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 03:55:01 PM 855 Views
I disagree - 06/01/2010 05:42:44 PM 803 Views
Re: I disagree - 06/01/2010 06:41:08 PM 835 Views
Re: I disagree - 07/01/2010 04:42:40 AM 816 Views
I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 07:30:56 AM 971 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 03:32:24 PM 877 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 09:52:47 PM 947 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 11:19:56 PM 855 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:21:50 AM 922 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:56:26 AM 856 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 01:46:16 AM 914 Views
I agree with Templar - 09/01/2010 04:36:20 PM 838 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 07:57:54 AM 957 Views
Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 02:36:42 PM 961 Views
Re: Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 04:16:12 PM 880 Views
But... - 06/01/2010 04:34:02 PM 992 Views
Re: But... - 06/01/2010 06:14:25 PM 802 Views
Doesn't Balefire remove your thread from the Pattern permanently? - 06/01/2010 02:55:38 PM 942 Views
No, RJ stated balefired people can be reborn. *NM* - 06/01/2010 03:26:00 PM 453 Views
But not in this turning of the Wheel. So they'd miss out on MANY lifetimes. - 06/01/2010 05:46:04 PM 872 Views
What? - 06/01/2010 06:20:56 PM 883 Views
Where did you get that? - 06/01/2010 07:09:38 PM 836 Views
No, balefire just kills you backwards in time. It is not super-death. *NM* - 06/01/2010 09:58:18 PM 481 Views
LOL ... super-death! - 06/01/2010 11:59:31 PM 819 Views
Hah! *NM* - 07/01/2010 12:06:07 AM 470 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:20 AM 831 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:33 AM 805 Views
Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 06:51:15 PM 931 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 07:16:14 PM 851 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 08:58:40 PM 894 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM 888 Views
let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:26:43 PM 894 Views
Re: let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:40:56 PM 885 Views
actually that quote supports my thoughts - 06/01/2010 11:50:40 PM 910 Views
Re: actually that quote supports my thoughts - 07/01/2010 12:10:07 AM 838 Views
Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take. - 07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM 935 Views
Sigh. What mass murder? - 07/01/2010 12:15:01 AM 785 Views
you are kidding right? - 07/01/2010 12:19:58 AM 894 Views
In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:14:32 PM 861 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:57:43 PM 869 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:13:21 PM 886 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:52:24 PM 830 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 08:56:43 PM 897 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:26:01 PM 846 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:30:45 PM 783 Views
Personally I'm kind of sick of Rand being the only person killing FS! - 07/01/2010 09:42:57 PM 953 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM 889 Views
OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 07/01/2010 10:30:19 PM 874 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 01:53:25 PM 841 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 02:56:41 PM 876 Views
What might work... - 08/01/2010 12:35:17 PM 782 Views
Re: What might work... - 08/01/2010 11:38:09 PM 808 Views
Yes. Anakin Skywalker all over again - 06/01/2010 11:01:02 PM 967 Views
Meh - 06/01/2010 11:30:24 PM 805 Views
The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:33:32 PM 813 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:50:37 PM 894 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:55:03 PM 854 Views
I do have to guiltily say, though, that if Rand had balefired the Seanchan and THEN became good... - 07/01/2010 12:03:20 AM 861 Views
*laughs behind hand* - 07/01/2010 12:05:54 AM 938 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 07/01/2010 12:23:11 AM 801 Views
I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 12:52:25 AM 811 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 01:24:32 AM 877 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 03:33:52 PM 826 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM 965 Views
right cause all Generals are so well versed in medical conditions - 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM 916 Views
Nice way to avoid the argument. - 07/01/2010 10:00:17 PM 865 Views
I'm just done talking in circles. You seem to think that because people - 07/01/2010 11:53:05 PM 905 Views
I concede - 07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM 804 Views
You weren't wrong overall, but there were some serious flaws in your reasoning. - 07/01/2010 02:43:17 AM 912 Views
Tee hee. - 07/01/2010 05:28:52 AM 875 Views
Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 06:23:09 AM 894 Views
Re: Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 03:23:59 PM 814 Views
I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 12:00:02 AM 893 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 05:56:16 PM 1052 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 18/01/2010 01:00:23 PM 1186 Views
Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 11/01/2010 04:47:10 PM 784 Views
Re: Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 18/01/2010 12:49:26 PM 829 Views

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