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Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. Datakim Send a noteboard - 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM
Rand Travels in disguised under an illusion of invisibility, tracks Graendal down by advancing through her palace and balefires her while she is bathing.


Triggers wards like Sammaels, Graendal flees.


Or a re-use of the Rahvin Scenario: Rand Travels in with a fighting force with orders to only kill those Compelled to attack them, he brings Nynayeve/Cadsuane/random Aes Sedai in his retinue/Wondergirl/a channeling member of his harem/Wise Ones in to detect saidar. Graendal has some sort of defense that doesn't take him out, he chases her down preventing her Gateways from opening all the way each time she tries and finally balefires her just as she's about to escape through an inverted Gateway.


How will Rand chase her? How will he prevent her gateways from opening all the way? How will he reach her in time when she could be anywhere in the palace and she will flee at the instant she senses trouble.

I suppose you could argue that Rand's tav'eren nature would make it so that he could just randomly open a gateway anywhere and accidentally open it ontop of Graendal. But if I start accepting explanations like that, any debate becomes meaningless.

Oh, and I love how you just mention "Graendal has some sort of defense that doesn't take him out" as if its the most natural thing in the world. For all we know Rand would have perished the instant he went anywhere near. Graendal has had months or years even to prepare her little fort with countless wards and traps.

The point is that Rand/LTT makes it clear that this kind of surprise attack is not possible. Since you did not read that part of the book, I will write it for you here.


How? How can I kill a foe who is more clever than myself, a foe who is _impossible to surprise_ yet who is also _unwilling to confront me_?


I think LTT knows Graendal better than you do. If he says she is impossible to surprise, I believe him. And that means your suggestions will not work.

That was the whole _point_ of the scene and this whole thing. That surprising or confronting Graendal the way he did Rahvin and the others is simply not possible. Thats how Graendal operates. To accept your plans, would mean accepting that Graendal is not actually Graendal.
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Rand the psycho? - 06/01/2010 02:53:30 AM 1764 Views
I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:07:33 AM 1173 Views
On Balefire - 06/01/2010 04:43:18 AM 1178 Views
Good point - 06/01/2010 05:04:26 AM 1188 Views
On the nature of BaleFire - 06/01/2010 03:32:25 PM 1105 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:59:12 AM 1005 Views
Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:10:33 AM 1097 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:20:02 AM 1007 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:58:00 AM 998 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 11:46:13 AM 956 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 03:55:01 PM 968 Views
I disagree - 06/01/2010 05:42:44 PM 922 Views
Re: I disagree - 06/01/2010 06:41:08 PM 956 Views
Re: I disagree - 07/01/2010 04:42:40 AM 939 Views
I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 07:30:56 AM 1061 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 03:32:24 PM 959 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 09:52:47 PM 1064 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 11:19:56 PM 976 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:21:50 AM 1034 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:56:26 AM 968 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 01:46:16 AM 1028 Views
I agree with Templar - 09/01/2010 04:36:20 PM 923 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 07:57:54 AM 1057 Views
Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 02:36:42 PM 1069 Views
Re: Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 04:16:12 PM 1019 Views
But... - 06/01/2010 04:34:02 PM 1106 Views
Re: But... - 06/01/2010 06:14:25 PM 900 Views
Doesn't Balefire remove your thread from the Pattern permanently? - 06/01/2010 02:55:38 PM 1049 Views
No, RJ stated balefired people can be reborn. *NM* - 06/01/2010 03:26:00 PM 511 Views
But not in this turning of the Wheel. So they'd miss out on MANY lifetimes. - 06/01/2010 05:46:04 PM 966 Views
What? - 06/01/2010 06:20:56 PM 981 Views
Where did you get that? - 06/01/2010 07:09:38 PM 937 Views
No, balefire just kills you backwards in time. It is not super-death. *NM* - 06/01/2010 09:58:18 PM 521 Views
LOL ... super-death! - 06/01/2010 11:59:31 PM 906 Views
Hah! *NM* - 07/01/2010 12:06:07 AM 520 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:20 AM 935 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:33 AM 896 Views
Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 06:51:15 PM 1046 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 07:16:14 PM 998 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 08:58:40 PM 995 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM 990 Views
let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:26:43 PM 1002 Views
Re: let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:40:56 PM 971 Views
actually that quote supports my thoughts - 06/01/2010 11:50:40 PM 1043 Views
Re: actually that quote supports my thoughts - 07/01/2010 12:10:07 AM 936 Views
Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take. - 07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM 1042 Views
Sigh. What mass murder? - 07/01/2010 12:15:01 AM 880 Views
you are kidding right? - 07/01/2010 12:19:58 AM 986 Views
In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:14:32 PM 949 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:57:43 PM 981 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:13:21 PM 983 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:52:24 PM 912 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 08:56:43 PM 994 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:26:01 PM 954 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:30:45 PM 879 Views
Personally I'm kind of sick of Rand being the only person killing FS! - 07/01/2010 09:42:57 PM 1043 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM 995 Views
OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 07/01/2010 10:30:19 PM 1004 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 01:53:25 PM 943 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 02:56:41 PM 973 Views
What might work... - 08/01/2010 12:35:17 PM 884 Views
Re: What might work... - 08/01/2010 11:38:09 PM 899 Views
Yes. Anakin Skywalker all over again - 06/01/2010 11:01:02 PM 1070 Views
Meh - 06/01/2010 11:30:24 PM 903 Views
The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:33:32 PM 905 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:50:37 PM 996 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:55:03 PM 973 Views
I do have to guiltily say, though, that if Rand had balefired the Seanchan and THEN became good... - 07/01/2010 12:03:20 AM 966 Views
*laughs behind hand* - 07/01/2010 12:05:54 AM 1037 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 07/01/2010 12:23:11 AM 890 Views
I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 12:52:25 AM 932 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 01:24:32 AM 988 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 03:33:52 PM 916 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM 1073 Views
right cause all Generals are so well versed in medical conditions - 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM 1035 Views
Nice way to avoid the argument. - 07/01/2010 10:00:17 PM 971 Views
I'm just done talking in circles. You seem to think that because people - 07/01/2010 11:53:05 PM 998 Views
I concede - 07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM 904 Views
You weren't wrong overall, but there were some serious flaws in your reasoning. - 07/01/2010 02:43:17 AM 1038 Views
Tee hee. - 07/01/2010 05:28:52 AM 975 Views
Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 06:23:09 AM 980 Views
Re: Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 03:23:59 PM 916 Views
I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 12:00:02 AM 992 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 05:56:16 PM 1167 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 18/01/2010 01:00:23 PM 1301 Views
Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 11/01/2010 04:47:10 PM 879 Views
Re: Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 18/01/2010 12:49:26 PM 916 Views

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