Are you implying that Compulsion of the messenger and the Kerb-guy happen at the time when Nynaeve was present in Arad Doman?
No. The messenger was compelled before Rand came to Arad Doman. When he did, Graendal compelled Kerb. That's how I read it.
Because the way I read it, Graendal made Compulsion on these guys way before Rand and co got to Arad Doman. I think that Graendal had several "clean-up" guys, like this Kerb, in some strategic places. And several, not so important and dispensable guys running around. Like this messenger, for example. "Clean-up" guys have an old outstanding order to clean the mess when someone from other group screws up. I can't imagine Graendal doing day-by-day update on her Compulsion weave to update the orders. I think, Compulsion is placed once with the clear command to obey and worship Graendal plus some special orders for the special events. The Kerb guy, saw that someone may reveal something important to his master and killed the messenger. I don't think it was direct command from Graendal. I don't see her doing this petty stuff.
That defies belief.
First, there's the question of why. Why have a clean up guy? Her compulsion ensured that even under the harshest torture, the messenger revealed nothing to Millisar's men. So it couldn't have been to keep her location secret from people like Millisar.
If it was to keep Rand from getting to her (this assumes she anticipated Rand coming to Arad Doman, incidentally), is makes no sense to order Kerb to stay after killing the messenger. By doing so, she merely replaces on danger with another. Which makes no sense.
As I see it, Kerb was likely compelled by Graendal personally when she learned that Rand was coming to Arad Doman from Moridin. It would be possible to anticipate where Rand would go, since Mellisar was the only Councilor in Bandar Eban.
Further, her doing this either implies Kerb was supposed to set off a trap for Rand. Otherwise, it implies very shoddy writing. There's no other option.
Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story.
- 25/01/2010 05:18:23 PM
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I think Graendal's death was a great scene
- 25/01/2010 05:26:51 PM
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The scene itself was great. The rest is crap.
- 25/01/2010 05:37:44 PM
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After reading 12 WoT books...
- 25/01/2010 05:46:31 PM
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I think playing too many games just messes up with the integrety and solidness of the books ...
- 26/01/2010 09:46:16 PM
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I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead.
- 25/01/2010 06:18:30 PM
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Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead.
- 25/01/2010 06:44:34 PM
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well one of her major character parallels is Josef Mengel
- 25/01/2010 06:54:43 PM
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Can you think of any way that would explain the Compulsion vanishing?
- 25/01/2010 07:52:40 PM
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that's kind of my whole point
- 25/01/2010 08:43:19 PM
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None of those "easy explanations" could work
- 26/01/2010 07:14:16 AM
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my entire problem with the scene is that it just felt too open ended
- 26/01/2010 08:58:37 AM
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Can't she knot it to disapate after being examined once?
- 26/01/2010 03:43:55 AM
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Do we have evidence that this is possible?
- 26/01/2010 03:44:48 AM
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Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead.
- 26/01/2010 02:03:51 AM
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I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive.
- 26/01/2010 07:38:40 AM
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- 26/01/2010 11:42:04 AM
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Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive.
- 26/01/2010 08:49:00 AM
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Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive.
- 26/01/2010 09:19:35 AM
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Moiraine probably learned it while researching with Adealas and Vandene. *NM*
- 26/01/2010 04:57:09 PM
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- 26/01/2010 11:42:04 AM
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He was balefired by a direct stream in front of at least two credible witnesses.
- 26/01/2010 04:10:13 PM
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Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead.
- 25/01/2010 08:56:16 PM
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I believe she's dead
- 25/01/2010 09:06:37 PM
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Re: I believe she's dead
- 25/01/2010 09:09:58 PM
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Besides, if it wasn't Graendal, it implies that she knew of Rand's plan, which is not feasible *NM*
- 26/01/2010 02:01:41 PM
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The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene!
- 25/01/2010 11:54:02 PM
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Re: The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene!
- 26/01/2010 01:22:57 AM
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Stop passing judgments...
- 26/01/2010 02:05:21 AM
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But your theories are becoming increasingly farfetched
- 26/01/2010 04:21:21 AM
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I repeat that I find her "death" monumental...
- 26/01/2010 07:16:13 PM
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Re: I repeat that I find her "death" monumental...
- 26/01/2010 07:23:29 PM
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Dude, then you derailed the thread...
- 26/01/2010 07:31:55 PM
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*NM*
no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place
- 26/01/2010 08:51:31 AM
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Re: no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place
- 26/01/2010 11:37:26 AM
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read the whole quote
- 26/01/2010 04:35:17 PM
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LOL! You read the whole quote
- 26/01/2010 07:00:41 PM
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the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together.
- 27/01/2010 12:40:09 AM
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Re: the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together.
- 28/01/2010 04:28:21 PM
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I don't see any flaws.
- 25/01/2010 09:14:44 PM
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But...
- 25/01/2010 11:44:49 PM
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Re: But...
- 26/01/2010 01:14:51 AM
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That still doesn't make sense.
- 26/01/2010 02:23:12 AM
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But, having a clean up guy does make sense. 
- 26/01/2010 03:02:13 AM
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- 26/01/2010 03:02:13 AM
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But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy!
- 26/01/2010 03:35:44 AM
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Nonsense.
- 26/01/2010 07:50:04 AM
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Dude, read what I said please...
- 26/01/2010 07:21:52 PM
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Re: Dude, read what I said please...
- 26/01/2010 09:28:25 PM
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Kerb had no initiative... he was under too heavy a Compulsion to think for himself
- 27/01/2010 12:45:47 AM
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I think he had some, albeit probably not a whole lot
- 27/01/2010 01:03:44 AM
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Messenger was running around being obvious. Noone would suspect Kerb though. Case Closed. *NM*
- 26/01/2010 11:08:16 AM
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Thank the creator you're not in the police then. *NM*
- 26/01/2010 07:22:29 PM
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Ok, in more detail:
- 26/01/2010 08:16:30 PM
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Thoughts
- 26/01/2010 01:05:45 AM
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Nope. Ramshalan was just "collecting taxes" or something.
- 26/01/2010 11:10:25 AM
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Re: Nope. Ramshalan was NOT just "collecting taxes" or something.
- 26/01/2010 05:41:17 PM
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By, the way, if I understand this correctly...
- 26/01/2010 04:49:45 PM
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I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
- 26/01/2010 07:29:42 PM
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Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
- 26/01/2010 09:42:52 PM
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Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
- 27/01/2010 03:26:46 AM
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Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
- 27/01/2010 04:05:23 AM
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That's not fair
- 27/01/2010 04:09:38 AM
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I agree about the 'awesome' part 
.
- 27/01/2010 05:41:00 AM
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.
- 27/01/2010 05:41:00 AM
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Does anybody have a link to it? (nothing on Google). I'm intrigued. *NM*
- 27/01/2010 08:27:13 AM
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It was on Wotmania. Someone copied all the theories, but I don't recall whom. *NM*
- 27/01/2010 08:31:00 AM
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I just think it's funny that what you call omniscience has been done by the Forsaken before.
- 27/01/2010 02:02:44 PM
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But Graendal was the victim of a greater plot.
- 27/01/2010 05:30:28 PM
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So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal.
- 27/01/2010 05:57:20 PM
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Re: So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal.
- 28/01/2010 04:05:21 AM
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Give me one example. Just one. *NM*
- 27/01/2010 06:52:44 PM
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Ishamael plans millennia ahead by sowing the seeds for the Black Ajah, the Seanchan and the current
- 28/01/2010 01:57:39 PM
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Not even comparable.
- 28/01/2010 06:31:06 PM
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Re: Not even comparable.
- 28/01/2010 07:50:38 PM
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Could you please take the effort to read my posts?
- 28/01/2010 10:45:01 PM
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And, just to double post:
- 27/01/2010 07:12:17 PM
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Re: And, just to double post:
- 27/01/2010 08:25:45 PM
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Nice answer.
- 28/01/2010 12:10:27 AM
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Re: Nice answer.
- 28/01/2010 01:55:16 PM
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Hilarious.
- 28/01/2010 06:36:22 PM
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Re: Hilarious.
- 28/01/2010 07:15:20 PM
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Re: Hilarious.
- 28/01/2010 07:41:29 PM
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Re: Hilarious.
- 28/01/2010 07:53:34 PM
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Re: Hilarious.
- 28/01/2010 10:55:57 PM
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That's because you didn't look at other posts.
- 29/01/2010 03:37:08 PM
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Moridin's main directive was..
- 29/01/2010 03:57:41 PM
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Re: Moridin's main directive was..
- 29/01/2010 04:50:16 PM
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Preventing order wasn't accomplished...
- 29/01/2010 05:12:22 PM
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I disagree.
- 29/01/2010 05:28:59 PM
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I will stop our discussion here; the posts are already pushed too far to the right of my display. *NM*
- 29/01/2010 06:14:29 PM
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*NM*
- 29/01/2010 06:14:29 PM
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You expect me to search every post you've made on this forum, ever?
- 29/01/2010 06:50:49 PM
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Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
- 27/01/2010 01:00:42 AM
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I don't see a flaw
- 27/01/2010 06:24:44 AM
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Re: I don't see a flaw
- 27/01/2010 04:18:27 PM
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Yup, I'm tired of seeing arguments that ignore the need to back up their own claims.
- 27/01/2010 05:47:16 PM
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I don't think there's a flaw, I think you misinterpret Graendal's plans
- 27/01/2010 06:57:44 PM
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Good point on Ituralde - he may still be Compulsed in ways we're yet to discover. *NM*
- 28/01/2010 04:11:15 AM
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Re: Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story.
- 27/01/2010 09:11:32 PM
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