Are you implying that Compulsion of the messenger and the Kerb-guy happen at the time when Nynaeve was present in Arad Doman?
No. The messenger was compelled before Rand came to Arad Doman. When he did, Graendal compelled Kerb. That's how I read it.
Because the way I read it, Graendal made Compulsion on these guys way before Rand and co got to Arad Doman. I think that Graendal had several "clean-up" guys, like this Kerb, in some strategic places. And several, not so important and dispensable guys running around. Like this messenger, for example. "Clean-up" guys have an old outstanding order to clean the mess when someone from other group screws up. I can't imagine Graendal doing day-by-day update on her Compulsion weave to update the orders. I think, Compulsion is placed once with the clear command to obey and worship Graendal plus some special orders for the special events. The Kerb guy, saw that someone may reveal something important to his master and killed the messenger. I don't think it was direct command from Graendal. I don't see her doing this petty stuff.
That defies belief.
First, there's the question of why. Why have a clean up guy? Her compulsion ensured that even under the harshest torture, the messenger revealed nothing to Millisar's men. So it couldn't have been to keep her location secret from people like Millisar.
If it was to keep Rand from getting to her (this assumes she anticipated Rand coming to Arad Doman, incidentally), is makes no sense to order Kerb to stay after killing the messenger. By doing so, she merely replaces on danger with another. Which makes no sense.
As I see it, Kerb was likely compelled by Graendal personally when she learned that Rand was coming to Arad Doman from Moridin. It would be possible to anticipate where Rand would go, since Mellisar was the only Councilor in Bandar Eban.
Further, her doing this either implies Kerb was supposed to set off a trap for Rand. Otherwise, it implies very shoddy writing. There's no other option.
Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story.
- 25/01/2010 05:18:23 PM
3160 Views
I think Graendal's death was a great scene
- 25/01/2010 05:26:51 PM
1901 Views
The scene itself was great. The rest is crap.
- 25/01/2010 05:37:44 PM
1706 Views
After reading 12 WoT books...
- 25/01/2010 05:46:31 PM
1816 Views
I think playing too many games just messes up with the integrety and solidness of the books ...
- 26/01/2010 09:46:16 PM
3169 Views
I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead.
- 25/01/2010 06:18:30 PM
1752 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead.
- 25/01/2010 06:44:34 PM
1677 Views
well one of her major character parallels is Josef Mengel
- 25/01/2010 06:54:43 PM
1456 Views
Can you think of any way that would explain the Compulsion vanishing?
- 25/01/2010 07:52:40 PM
1520 Views
that's kind of my whole point
- 25/01/2010 08:43:19 PM
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None of those "easy explanations" could work
- 26/01/2010 07:14:16 AM
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my entire problem with the scene is that it just felt too open ended
- 26/01/2010 08:58:37 AM
1583 Views
Can't she knot it to disapate after being examined once?
- 26/01/2010 03:43:55 AM
1491 Views
Do we have evidence that this is possible?
- 26/01/2010 03:44:48 AM
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Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead.
- 26/01/2010 02:03:51 AM
1645 Views
I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive.
- 26/01/2010 07:38:40 AM
1394 Views
- 26/01/2010 11:42:04 AM
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Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive.
- 26/01/2010 08:49:00 AM
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Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive.
- 26/01/2010 09:19:35 AM
1429 Views
Moiraine probably learned it while researching with Adealas and Vandene. *NM*
- 26/01/2010 04:57:09 PM
1029 Views
- 26/01/2010 11:42:04 AM
1586 Views
He was balefired by a direct stream in front of at least two credible witnesses.
- 26/01/2010 04:10:13 PM
1622 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead.
- 25/01/2010 08:56:16 PM
1691 Views
I believe she's dead
- 25/01/2010 09:06:37 PM
1521 Views
Re: I believe she's dead
- 25/01/2010 09:09:58 PM
1569 Views
Besides, if it wasn't Graendal, it implies that she knew of Rand's plan, which is not feasible *NM*
- 26/01/2010 02:01:41 PM
832 Views
The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene!
- 25/01/2010 11:54:02 PM
1689 Views
Re: The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene!
- 26/01/2010 01:22:57 AM
1461 Views
Stop passing judgments...
- 26/01/2010 02:05:21 AM
1624 Views
But your theories are becoming increasingly farfetched
- 26/01/2010 04:21:21 AM
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I repeat that I find her "death" monumental...
- 26/01/2010 07:16:13 PM
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Re: I repeat that I find her "death" monumental...
- 26/01/2010 07:23:29 PM
1543 Views
Dude, then you derailed the thread...
- 26/01/2010 07:31:55 PM
1409 Views
*NM*
no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place
- 26/01/2010 08:51:31 AM
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Re: no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place
- 26/01/2010 11:37:26 AM
1632 Views
read the whole quote
- 26/01/2010 04:35:17 PM
1251 Views
LOL! You read the whole quote
- 26/01/2010 07:00:41 PM
1399 Views
the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together.
- 27/01/2010 12:40:09 AM
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Re: the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together.
- 28/01/2010 04:28:21 PM
1579 Views
I don't see any flaws.
- 25/01/2010 09:14:44 PM
1667 Views
But...
- 25/01/2010 11:44:49 PM
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Re: But...
- 26/01/2010 01:14:51 AM
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That still doesn't make sense.
- 26/01/2010 02:23:12 AM
1661 Views
But, having a clean up guy does make sense. 
- 26/01/2010 03:02:13 AM
1686 Views
- 26/01/2010 03:02:13 AM
1686 Views
But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy!
- 26/01/2010 03:35:44 AM
1514 Views
Nonsense.
- 26/01/2010 07:50:04 AM
1379 Views
Dude, read what I said please...
- 26/01/2010 07:21:52 PM
1563 Views
Re: Dude, read what I said please...
- 26/01/2010 09:28:25 PM
1554 Views
Kerb had no initiative... he was under too heavy a Compulsion to think for himself
- 27/01/2010 12:45:47 AM
1401 Views
I think he had some, albeit probably not a whole lot
- 27/01/2010 01:03:44 AM
1494 Views
Messenger was running around being obvious. Noone would suspect Kerb though. Case Closed. *NM*
- 26/01/2010 11:08:16 AM
946 Views
Thank the creator you're not in the police then. *NM*
- 26/01/2010 07:22:29 PM
906 Views
Ok, in more detail:
- 26/01/2010 08:16:30 PM
1569 Views
Thoughts
- 26/01/2010 01:05:45 AM
1393 Views
Nope. Ramshalan was just "collecting taxes" or something.
- 26/01/2010 11:10:25 AM
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Re: Nope. Ramshalan was NOT just "collecting taxes" or something.
- 26/01/2010 05:41:17 PM
1439 Views
By, the way, if I understand this correctly...
- 26/01/2010 04:49:45 PM
1677 Views
I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
- 26/01/2010 07:29:42 PM
1470 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
- 26/01/2010 09:42:52 PM
1228 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
- 27/01/2010 03:26:46 AM
1538 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
- 27/01/2010 04:05:23 AM
1609 Views
That's not fair
- 27/01/2010 04:09:38 AM
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I agree about the 'awesome' part 
.
- 27/01/2010 05:41:00 AM
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.
- 27/01/2010 05:41:00 AM
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Does anybody have a link to it? (nothing on Google). I'm intrigued. *NM*
- 27/01/2010 08:27:13 AM
842 Views
It was on Wotmania. Someone copied all the theories, but I don't recall whom. *NM*
- 27/01/2010 08:31:00 AM
976 Views
I just think it's funny that what you call omniscience has been done by the Forsaken before.
- 27/01/2010 02:02:44 PM
1404 Views
But Graendal was the victim of a greater plot.
- 27/01/2010 05:30:28 PM
1528 Views
So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal.
- 27/01/2010 05:57:20 PM
1608 Views
Re: So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal.
- 28/01/2010 04:05:21 AM
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Give me one example. Just one. *NM*
- 27/01/2010 06:52:44 PM
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Ishamael plans millennia ahead by sowing the seeds for the Black Ajah, the Seanchan and the current
- 28/01/2010 01:57:39 PM
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Not even comparable.
- 28/01/2010 06:31:06 PM
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Re: Not even comparable.
- 28/01/2010 07:50:38 PM
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Could you please take the effort to read my posts?
- 28/01/2010 10:45:01 PM
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And, just to double post:
- 27/01/2010 07:12:17 PM
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Re: And, just to double post:
- 27/01/2010 08:25:45 PM
1531 Views
Nice answer.
- 28/01/2010 12:10:27 AM
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Re: Nice answer.
- 28/01/2010 01:55:16 PM
1462 Views
Hilarious.
- 28/01/2010 06:36:22 PM
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Re: Hilarious.
- 28/01/2010 07:15:20 PM
1454 Views
Re: Hilarious.
- 28/01/2010 07:41:29 PM
1498 Views
Re: Hilarious.
- 28/01/2010 07:53:34 PM
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Re: Hilarious.
- 28/01/2010 10:55:57 PM
1514 Views
That's because you didn't look at other posts.
- 29/01/2010 03:37:08 PM
1489 Views
Moridin's main directive was..
- 29/01/2010 03:57:41 PM
1516 Views
Re: Moridin's main directive was..
- 29/01/2010 04:50:16 PM
1574 Views
Preventing order wasn't accomplished...
- 29/01/2010 05:12:22 PM
1548 Views
I disagree.
- 29/01/2010 05:28:59 PM
1870 Views
I will stop our discussion here; the posts are already pushed too far to the right of my display. *NM*
- 29/01/2010 06:14:29 PM
760 Views
*NM*
- 29/01/2010 06:14:29 PM
760 Views
You expect me to search every post you've made on this forum, ever?
- 29/01/2010 06:50:49 PM
1449 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
- 27/01/2010 01:00:42 AM
1466 Views
I don't see a flaw
- 27/01/2010 06:24:44 AM
1567 Views
Re: I don't see a flaw
- 27/01/2010 04:18:27 PM
1510 Views
Yup, I'm tired of seeing arguments that ignore the need to back up their own claims.
- 27/01/2010 05:47:16 PM
1496 Views
I don't think there's a flaw, I think you misinterpret Graendal's plans
- 27/01/2010 06:57:44 PM
1483 Views
Good point on Ituralde - he may still be Compulsed in ways we're yet to discover. *NM*
- 28/01/2010 04:11:15 AM
878 Views
Re: Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story.
- 27/01/2010 09:11:32 PM
1551 Views