Are you implying that Compulsion of the messenger and the Kerb-guy happen at the time when Nynaeve was present in Arad Doman?
No. The messenger was compelled before Rand came to Arad Doman. When he did, Graendal compelled Kerb. That's how I read it.
Because the way I read it, Graendal made Compulsion on these guys way before Rand and co got to Arad Doman. I think that Graendal had several "clean-up" guys, like this Kerb, in some strategic places. And several, not so important and dispensable guys running around. Like this messenger, for example. "Clean-up" guys have an old outstanding order to clean the mess when someone from other group screws up. I can't imagine Graendal doing day-by-day update on her Compulsion weave to update the orders. I think, Compulsion is placed once with the clear command to obey and worship Graendal plus some special orders for the special events. The Kerb guy, saw that someone may reveal something important to his master and killed the messenger. I don't think it was direct command from Graendal. I don't see her doing this petty stuff.
That defies belief.
First, there's the question of why. Why have a clean up guy? Her compulsion ensured that even under the harshest torture, the messenger revealed nothing to Millisar's men. So it couldn't have been to keep her location secret from people like Millisar.
If it was to keep Rand from getting to her (this assumes she anticipated Rand coming to Arad Doman, incidentally), is makes no sense to order Kerb to stay after killing the messenger. By doing so, she merely replaces on danger with another. Which makes no sense.
As I see it, Kerb was likely compelled by Graendal personally when she learned that Rand was coming to Arad Doman from Moridin. It would be possible to anticipate where Rand would go, since Mellisar was the only Councilor in Bandar Eban.
Further, her doing this either implies Kerb was supposed to set off a trap for Rand. Otherwise, it implies very shoddy writing. There's no other option.
Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story.
- 25/01/2010 05:18:23 PM
2772 Views
I think Graendal's death was a great scene
- 25/01/2010 05:26:51 PM
1507 Views
The scene itself was great. The rest is crap.
- 25/01/2010 05:37:44 PM
1303 Views
After reading 12 WoT books...
- 25/01/2010 05:46:31 PM
1418 Views
I think playing too many games just messes up with the integrety and solidness of the books ...
- 26/01/2010 09:46:16 PM
2799 Views
I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead.
- 25/01/2010 06:18:30 PM
1360 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead.
- 25/01/2010 06:44:34 PM
1300 Views
well one of her major character parallels is Josef Mengel
- 25/01/2010 06:54:43 PM
1120 Views
Can you think of any way that would explain the Compulsion vanishing?
- 25/01/2010 07:52:40 PM
1122 Views
that's kind of my whole point
- 25/01/2010 08:43:19 PM
1050 Views
None of those "easy explanations" could work
- 26/01/2010 07:14:16 AM
1160 Views
my entire problem with the scene is that it just felt too open ended
- 26/01/2010 08:58:37 AM
1241 Views
Can't she knot it to disapate after being examined once?
- 26/01/2010 03:43:55 AM
1084 Views
Do we have evidence that this is possible?
- 26/01/2010 03:44:48 AM
1245 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead.
- 26/01/2010 02:03:51 AM
1312 Views
I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive.
- 26/01/2010 07:38:40 AM
1069 Views
- 26/01/2010 11:42:04 AM
1252 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive.
- 26/01/2010 08:49:00 AM
1269 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive.
- 26/01/2010 09:19:35 AM
1050 Views
Moiraine probably learned it while researching with Adealas and Vandene. *NM*
- 26/01/2010 04:57:09 PM
859 Views
- 26/01/2010 11:42:04 AM
1252 Views
He was balefired by a direct stream in front of at least two credible witnesses.
- 26/01/2010 04:10:13 PM
1241 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead.
- 25/01/2010 08:56:16 PM
1335 Views
I believe she's dead
- 25/01/2010 09:06:37 PM
1170 Views
Re: I believe she's dead
- 25/01/2010 09:09:58 PM
1214 Views
Besides, if it wasn't Graendal, it implies that she knew of Rand's plan, which is not feasible *NM*
- 26/01/2010 02:01:41 PM
647 Views
The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene!
- 25/01/2010 11:54:02 PM
1347 Views
Re: The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene!
- 26/01/2010 01:22:57 AM
1094 Views
Stop passing judgments...
- 26/01/2010 02:05:21 AM
1280 Views
But your theories are becoming increasingly farfetched
- 26/01/2010 04:21:21 AM
1161 Views
I repeat that I find her "death" monumental...
- 26/01/2010 07:16:13 PM
1134 Views
Re: I repeat that I find her "death" monumental...
- 26/01/2010 07:23:29 PM
1161 Views
Dude, then you derailed the thread...
- 26/01/2010 07:31:55 PM
1061 Views
*NM*
no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place
- 26/01/2010 08:51:31 AM
1094 Views
Re: no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place
- 26/01/2010 11:37:26 AM
1241 Views
read the whole quote
- 26/01/2010 04:35:17 PM
916 Views
LOL! You read the whole quote
- 26/01/2010 07:00:41 PM
1027 Views
the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together.
- 27/01/2010 12:40:09 AM
1109 Views
Re: the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together.
- 28/01/2010 04:28:21 PM
1248 Views
I don't see any flaws.
- 25/01/2010 09:14:44 PM
1282 Views
But...
- 25/01/2010 11:44:49 PM
1037 Views
Re: But...
- 26/01/2010 01:14:51 AM
1176 Views
That still doesn't make sense.
- 26/01/2010 02:23:12 AM
1267 Views
But, having a clean up guy does make sense. 
- 26/01/2010 03:02:13 AM
1304 Views
- 26/01/2010 03:02:13 AM
1304 Views
But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy!
- 26/01/2010 03:35:44 AM
1151 Views
Nonsense.
- 26/01/2010 07:50:04 AM
1022 Views
Dude, read what I said please...
- 26/01/2010 07:21:52 PM
1210 Views
Re: Dude, read what I said please...
- 26/01/2010 09:28:25 PM
1198 Views
Kerb had no initiative... he was under too heavy a Compulsion to think for himself
- 27/01/2010 12:45:47 AM
1073 Views
I think he had some, albeit probably not a whole lot
- 27/01/2010 01:03:44 AM
1129 Views
Messenger was running around being obvious. Noone would suspect Kerb though. Case Closed. *NM*
- 26/01/2010 11:08:16 AM
762 Views
Thank the creator you're not in the police then. *NM*
- 26/01/2010 07:22:29 PM
703 Views
Ok, in more detail:
- 26/01/2010 08:16:30 PM
1202 Views
Thoughts
- 26/01/2010 01:05:45 AM
1036 Views
Nope. Ramshalan was just "collecting taxes" or something.
- 26/01/2010 11:10:25 AM
1013 Views
Re: Nope. Ramshalan was NOT just "collecting taxes" or something.
- 26/01/2010 05:41:17 PM
1088 Views
By, the way, if I understand this correctly...
- 26/01/2010 04:49:45 PM
1256 Views
I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
- 26/01/2010 07:29:42 PM
1100 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
- 26/01/2010 09:42:52 PM
907 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
- 27/01/2010 03:26:46 AM
1116 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
- 27/01/2010 04:05:23 AM
1225 Views
That's not fair
- 27/01/2010 04:09:38 AM
1060 Views
I agree about the 'awesome' part 
.
- 27/01/2010 05:41:00 AM
1037 Views
.
- 27/01/2010 05:41:00 AM
1037 Views
Does anybody have a link to it? (nothing on Google). I'm intrigued. *NM*
- 27/01/2010 08:27:13 AM
660 Views
It was on Wotmania. Someone copied all the theories, but I don't recall whom. *NM*
- 27/01/2010 08:31:00 AM
790 Views
I just think it's funny that what you call omniscience has been done by the Forsaken before.
- 27/01/2010 02:02:44 PM
1034 Views
But Graendal was the victim of a greater plot.
- 27/01/2010 05:30:28 PM
1143 Views
So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal.
- 27/01/2010 05:57:20 PM
1237 Views
Re: So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal.
- 28/01/2010 04:05:21 AM
1242 Views
Give me one example. Just one. *NM*
- 27/01/2010 06:52:44 PM
728 Views
Ishamael plans millennia ahead by sowing the seeds for the Black Ajah, the Seanchan and the current
- 28/01/2010 01:57:39 PM
1212 Views
Not even comparable.
- 28/01/2010 06:31:06 PM
974 Views
Re: Not even comparable.
- 28/01/2010 07:50:38 PM
1081 Views
Could you please take the effort to read my posts?
- 28/01/2010 10:45:01 PM
1035 Views
And, just to double post:
- 27/01/2010 07:12:17 PM
851 Views
Re: And, just to double post:
- 27/01/2010 08:25:45 PM
1137 Views
Nice answer.
- 28/01/2010 12:10:27 AM
1188 Views
Re: Nice answer.
- 28/01/2010 01:55:16 PM
1109 Views
Hilarious.
- 28/01/2010 06:36:22 PM
1223 Views
Re: Hilarious.
- 28/01/2010 07:15:20 PM
1109 Views
Re: Hilarious.
- 28/01/2010 07:41:29 PM
1120 Views
Re: Hilarious.
- 28/01/2010 07:53:34 PM
972 Views
Re: Hilarious.
- 28/01/2010 10:55:57 PM
1156 Views
That's because you didn't look at other posts.
- 29/01/2010 03:37:08 PM
1106 Views
Moridin's main directive was..
- 29/01/2010 03:57:41 PM
1138 Views
Re: Moridin's main directive was..
- 29/01/2010 04:50:16 PM
1184 Views
Preventing order wasn't accomplished...
- 29/01/2010 05:12:22 PM
1155 Views
I disagree.
- 29/01/2010 05:28:59 PM
1529 Views
I will stop our discussion here; the posts are already pushed too far to the right of my display. *NM*
- 29/01/2010 06:14:29 PM
593 Views
*NM*
- 29/01/2010 06:14:29 PM
593 Views
You expect me to search every post you've made on this forum, ever?
- 29/01/2010 06:50:49 PM
1073 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
- 27/01/2010 01:00:42 AM
1090 Views
I don't see a flaw
- 27/01/2010 06:24:44 AM
1196 Views
Re: I don't see a flaw
- 27/01/2010 04:18:27 PM
1146 Views
Yup, I'm tired of seeing arguments that ignore the need to back up their own claims.
- 27/01/2010 05:47:16 PM
1118 Views
I don't think there's a flaw, I think you misinterpret Graendal's plans
- 27/01/2010 06:57:44 PM
1119 Views
Good point on Ituralde - he may still be Compulsed in ways we're yet to discover. *NM*
- 28/01/2010 04:11:15 AM
702 Views
Re: Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story.
- 27/01/2010 09:11:32 PM
1100 Views