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Re: But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy! Yondaime Send a noteboard - 26/01/2010 04:12:41 AM
So, to ensure that no one detects the compulsion on one person, she has him killed by yet another compelled person, who then waits around to be found?


True, but what I'm think of is somewhat more pragmatic. It wasn't to hide compulsion on just one person, but anyone else there whom she may have compelled, directed, or used. There were probably several people in the Bandar Eban whom Graendal used - it is the capital city, after all. It's highly likely that she had her fingers all over the place manipulating and compelling. I imagine that Kerb helped in several places. The loose ends would be disposed of, and there would only be Kerb left by way of evidence. Instead of having twenty compelled people running around, there would only be one (there were probably several clean up guys, of course, but this is to make a point ). And Kerb was so heavily compelled that no one would be able to get anything out of him. It was only due to Nyneave's superior skill and Kerb's subconscious desire for revenge that Rand found out "Natrin's Barrow".

Furthermore, there is evidence that Kerb has been in Bandar Eban for a while. Possibly months before the messenger arrived. In TGS, Rivers of Shadow we learn that the messenger arrived two months before Rand arrived. We also learn that Kerb had been around for quite a while, several months at least:

"The lad," Jorgin said. "Nobody important. An apprentice we found among the refugees a few months back. Quite a lucky find - our last apprentice ran off on us, and this one was already trained in -"

This passage tells us Kerb was in place a few months prior, before Graendal definitively found out Rand was coming to Arad Doman, and that he was already trained - to prepare food for prisoners, apparently. His origins 'among the refugees' is somewhat doubtful, since Graendal obviously had compeled him at some point before, but it is not unlikely that he spent some time among them, further lengthening the gap between Rand's arrival and Graendal's instruction. I suppose it is possible that Graendal sent Kerb for the express purpose of killing the messenger and to trap Rand, who would come later, but I find it more likely that Kerb had other purposes .
"Take the Gleeman!" Rand and Mat cried, throwing Thom to the Myrddraal. Then they ran away as fast as they could, and Thom's screams quickly faded into the distance along with any inconvenient feelings of guilt.
This message last edited by Yondaime on 26/01/2010 at 04:23:59 AM
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Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story. - 25/01/2010 05:18:23 PM 3000 Views
I think Graendal's death was a great scene - 25/01/2010 05:26:51 PM 1760 Views
The scene itself was great. The rest is crap. - 25/01/2010 05:37:44 PM 1575 Views
After reading 12 WoT books... - 25/01/2010 05:46:31 PM 1636 Views
You also ignored... - 25/01/2010 08:15:34 PM 1625 Views
and of course, the obvious theme - 25/01/2010 09:02:56 PM 1486 Views
Bah! - 25/01/2010 11:49:33 PM 1623 Views
It's possible that this was mainly written by BS - 26/01/2010 12:03:03 PM 1557 Views
I agree that the set up for her death was rather lame - 25/01/2010 06:14:07 PM 1779 Views
I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 25/01/2010 06:18:30 PM 1584 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 25/01/2010 06:44:34 PM 1523 Views
well one of her major character parallels is Josef Mengel - 25/01/2010 06:54:43 PM 1327 Views
Can you think of any way that would explain the Compulsion vanishing? - 25/01/2010 07:52:40 PM 1361 Views
that's kind of my whole point - 25/01/2010 08:43:19 PM 1302 Views
Uh, not actually at all really - 25/01/2010 09:07:52 PM 1601 Views
*shudders* - 26/01/2010 02:27:35 AM 1464 Views
*shrugs* - 26/01/2010 08:47:21 AM 1502 Views
None of those "easy explanations" could work - 26/01/2010 07:14:16 AM 1411 Views
my entire problem with the scene is that it just felt too open ended - 26/01/2010 08:58:37 AM 1466 Views
Can't she knot it to disapate after being examined once? - 26/01/2010 03:43:55 AM 1361 Views
Do we have evidence that this is possible? - 26/01/2010 03:44:48 AM 1496 Views
why would Graendal do that anyway? - 26/01/2010 04:26:38 AM 1488 Views
Re: why would Graendal do that anyway? - 03/02/2010 02:52:32 AM 1414 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 26/01/2010 02:03:51 AM 1516 Views
I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. - 26/01/2010 07:38:40 AM 1282 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. - 26/01/2010 08:49:00 AM 1477 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. - 26/01/2010 09:19:35 AM 1297 Views
- 26/01/2010 11:42:04 AM 1457 Views
Didn't Balthamel and Aginor leave corpses? - 26/01/2010 04:35:19 PM 1489 Views
Re: Didn't Balthamel and Aginor leave corpses? - 26/01/2010 07:06:01 PM 1356 Views
Re: - 26/01/2010 04:44:06 PM 1468 Views
He was balefired by a direct stream in front of at least two credible witnesses. - 26/01/2010 04:10:13 PM 1489 Views
Me, Too. - 28/01/2010 08:00:09 PM 1454 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 25/01/2010 08:56:16 PM 1546 Views
I believe she's dead - 25/01/2010 09:06:37 PM 1401 Views
Re: I believe she's dead - 25/01/2010 09:09:58 PM 1439 Views
I don't think she would have taught anyone - 25/01/2010 09:18:03 PM 1309 Views
The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene! - 25/01/2010 11:54:02 PM 1558 Views
Re: The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene! - 26/01/2010 01:22:57 AM 1312 Views
Stop passing judgments... - 26/01/2010 02:05:21 AM 1514 Views
But your theories are becoming increasingly farfetched - 26/01/2010 04:21:21 AM 1389 Views
I repeat that I find her "death" monumental... - 26/01/2010 07:16:13 PM 1372 Views
Re: I repeat that I find her "death" monumental... - 26/01/2010 07:23:29 PM 1402 Views
Dude, then you derailed the thread... - 26/01/2010 07:31:55 PM 1288 Views
Not really - 26/01/2010 07:35:06 PM 1398 Views
Re: Not really - 26/01/2010 07:45:20 PM 1475 Views
Re: Not really - 28/01/2010 04:27:17 PM 1381 Views
Re: Stop passing judgments... - 26/01/2010 04:40:37 PM 1366 Views
*NM* - 26/01/2010 05:00:10 PM 724 Views
Everyone can see residues- only a select few can "read" them - 26/01/2010 07:42:19 AM 1441 Views
no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place - 26/01/2010 08:51:31 AM 1330 Views
Re: no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place - 26/01/2010 11:37:26 AM 1490 Views
read the whole quote - 26/01/2010 04:35:17 PM 1120 Views
LOL! You read the whole quote - 26/01/2010 07:00:41 PM 1269 Views
the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together. - 27/01/2010 12:40:09 AM 1324 Views
Re: the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together. - 28/01/2010 04:28:21 PM 1446 Views
I don't see any flaws. - 25/01/2010 09:14:44 PM 1544 Views
But... - 25/01/2010 11:44:49 PM 1268 Views
Re: But... - 26/01/2010 01:14:51 AM 1435 Views
That is what I thought ... - 26/01/2010 01:24:18 AM 1313 Views
That still doesn't make sense. - 26/01/2010 02:23:12 AM 1525 Views
But, having a clean up guy does make sense. - 26/01/2010 03:02:13 AM 1527 Views
But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy! - 26/01/2010 03:35:44 AM 1358 Views
Re: But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy! - 26/01/2010 04:12:41 AM 1323 Views
Nonsense. - 26/01/2010 07:50:04 AM 1240 Views
Dude, read what I said please... - 26/01/2010 07:21:52 PM 1448 Views
Re: Dude, read what I said please... - 26/01/2010 09:28:25 PM 1413 Views
Kerb had no initiative... he was under too heavy a Compulsion to think for himself - 27/01/2010 12:45:47 AM 1278 Views
I think he had some, albeit probably not a whole lot - 27/01/2010 01:03:44 AM 1333 Views
Nynaeve and Elayne were under a weaker compulsion... - 27/01/2010 03:10:52 AM 1190 Views
We don't know that, exactly - 27/01/2010 03:50:44 AM 1232 Views
If you cannot provide an answer... - 27/01/2010 03:10:40 AM 1318 Views
Seriously? - 27/01/2010 03:55:57 AM 1364 Views
Maybe... - 27/01/2010 11:08:10 AM 1295 Views
Messenger was running around being obvious. Noone would suspect Kerb though. Case Closed. *NM* - 26/01/2010 11:08:16 AM 872 Views
Thank the creator you're not in the police then. *NM* - 26/01/2010 07:22:29 PM 833 Views
Ok, in more detail: - 26/01/2010 08:16:30 PM 1444 Views
I'm tired of making this point... - 26/01/2010 08:39:22 PM 1191 Views
Re: I'm tired of making this point... - 26/01/2010 08:44:51 PM 1354 Views
Thoughts - 26/01/2010 01:05:45 AM 1271 Views
But that means she's dead - 26/01/2010 01:20:19 AM 1353 Views
Re: But that means she's dead - 26/01/2010 05:31:25 AM 1438 Views
Nope. Ramshalan was just "collecting taxes" or something. - 26/01/2010 11:10:25 AM 1236 Views
Re: Nope. Ramshalan was NOT just "collecting taxes" or something. - 26/01/2010 05:41:17 PM 1301 Views
By, the way, if I understand this correctly... - 26/01/2010 04:49:45 PM 1544 Views
Indeed... - 26/01/2010 05:13:53 PM 1506 Views
Re: Indeed... - 26/01/2010 07:04:40 PM 1353 Views
I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 26/01/2010 07:29:42 PM 1348 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 26/01/2010 07:58:41 PM 1312 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 26/01/2010 09:42:52 PM 1112 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 03:26:46 AM 1380 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 04:05:23 AM 1456 Views
That's not fair - 27/01/2010 04:09:38 AM 1308 Views
I agree about the 'awesome' part . - 27/01/2010 05:41:00 AM 1259 Views
I just think it's funny that what you call omniscience has been done by the Forsaken before. - 27/01/2010 02:02:44 PM 1265 Views
But Graendal was the victim of a greater plot. - 27/01/2010 05:30:28 PM 1385 Views
So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal. - 27/01/2010 05:57:20 PM 1489 Views
Give me one example. Just one. *NM* - 27/01/2010 06:52:44 PM 845 Views
Ishamael plans millennia ahead by sowing the seeds for the Black Ajah, the Seanchan and the current - 28/01/2010 01:57:39 PM 1428 Views
Not even comparable. - 28/01/2010 06:31:06 PM 1187 Views
Re: Not even comparable. - 28/01/2010 07:50:38 PM 1328 Views
Could you please take the effort to read my posts? - 28/01/2010 10:45:01 PM 1284 Views
Re: Could you please take the effort to read my posts? - 29/01/2010 03:49:43 PM 1333 Views
Re: Could you please take the effort to read my posts? - 29/01/2010 06:40:43 PM 1327 Views
And, just to double post: - 27/01/2010 07:12:17 PM 1082 Views
Re: And, just to double post: - 27/01/2010 08:25:45 PM 1405 Views
Nice answer. - 28/01/2010 12:10:27 AM 1384 Views
Re: Nice answer. - 28/01/2010 01:55:16 PM 1325 Views
Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 06:36:22 PM 1464 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 07:15:20 PM 1331 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 07:41:29 PM 1365 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 07:53:34 PM 1216 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 10:55:57 PM 1384 Views
That's because you didn't look at other posts. - 29/01/2010 03:37:08 PM 1329 Views
Moridin's main directive was.. - 29/01/2010 03:57:41 PM 1364 Views
Re: Moridin's main directive was.. - 29/01/2010 04:50:16 PM 1448 Views
Preventing order wasn't accomplished... - 29/01/2010 05:12:22 PM 1386 Views
I disagree. - 29/01/2010 05:28:59 PM 1745 Views
You expect me to search every post you've made on this forum, ever? - 29/01/2010 06:50:49 PM 1311 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 01:00:42 AM 1333 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 03:26:56 AM 1371 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 05:35:39 AM 1327 Views
I don't see a flaw - 27/01/2010 06:24:44 AM 1416 Views
Re: I don't see a flaw - 27/01/2010 04:18:27 PM 1385 Views
Let's give you one logic path for Millisair being poisoned. - 27/01/2010 05:47:04 PM 1377 Views
Spot on. *NM* - 28/01/2010 04:09:26 AM 837 Views
I don't think there's a flaw, I think you misinterpret Graendal's plans - 27/01/2010 06:57:44 PM 1348 Views
Good point on Ituralde - he may still be Compulsed in ways we're yet to discover. *NM* - 28/01/2010 04:11:15 AM 808 Views
Compulsion is limited - 28/01/2010 04:30:24 PM 1312 Views
Re: Compulsion is limited - 28/01/2010 06:35:05 PM 1471 Views
Re: Compulsion is limited - 28/01/2010 08:26:37 PM 1246 Views
Re: Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story. - 27/01/2010 09:11:32 PM 1345 Views
There's really no further purpose for her character. - 09/02/2010 10:52:58 PM 1424 Views

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