... you are claiming that Graendal left Kerb behind only to lure Rand to Natrin's Barrow, which requires of course that Graendal knew enough about Rand and his entourage to know that he would have a conversation with someone knowledgeable in herblore that would drive that person to find a clue to Graendal's whereabouts to prove her self worth, within the approximately one week timeframe between which the poisoning had begun and could be noticed by a sufficiently astute Wisdom but before she died, wiping out all traces of the incident. It also requires that she would then know that Rand would wipe out her entire palace from a distance rather than attempt to face her directly, so she could escape.
This is a load of nonsense.
No one needed to find Millisair before she died. All that was required is that she die. When that happened, people would have investigated. Delving her would have found poison (we saw Nynaeve and the AS do that with Vandene when she died. It requires no special skill). The moment poison is suspected, they'll look at the cook, and the compulsion would be revealed.
And all this for what, exactly? So that Rand would think she's dead? What does that bring her, exactly? Your convoluted plan assumes that the only reason Rand found Graendal in the first place was because Graendal planted a lead, so if she didn't want to risk Rand coming after her, she should simply not have planted that lead at all! And if she's still scared, then she could simply Travel, anywhere in the world, and Rand would never be able to find her.
So we have this huge, ridiculously convoluted plan which requires months of forethought and quasi omniscience in order to achieve essentially nothing.
This doesn't make Graendal look brilliant. It makes her look like Wile E. Coyote. If he can order rockets to go after the Road Runner, why doesn't he just order some chicken?
So we have this huge, ridiculously convoluted plan which requires months of forethought and quasi omniscience in order to achieve essentially nothing.
This doesn't make Graendal look brilliant. It makes her look like Wile E. Coyote. If he can order rockets to go after the Road Runner, why doesn't he just order some chicken?
Indeed. That is what I'm saying. If she's alive, we need to come up with a logical reason for why she laid a trap. If she's dead, we need to condemn the chain of events that led to her exposure as one of the most atrocious in the whole series. In fact, I've never seen so many holes in any of the other plot lines in the series.
Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story.
- 25/01/2010 05:18:23 PM
2930 Views
I think Graendal's death was a great scene
- 25/01/2010 05:26:51 PM
1683 Views
The scene itself was great. The rest is crap.
- 25/01/2010 05:37:44 PM
1505 Views
After reading 12 WoT books...
- 25/01/2010 05:46:31 PM
1561 Views
I think playing too many games just messes up with the integrety and solidness of the books ...
- 26/01/2010 09:46:16 PM
2963 Views
I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead.
- 25/01/2010 06:18:30 PM
1515 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead.
- 25/01/2010 06:44:34 PM
1451 Views
well one of her major character parallels is Josef Mengel
- 25/01/2010 06:54:43 PM
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Can you think of any way that would explain the Compulsion vanishing?
- 25/01/2010 07:52:40 PM
1288 Views
that's kind of my whole point
- 25/01/2010 08:43:19 PM
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None of those "easy explanations" could work
- 26/01/2010 07:14:16 AM
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my entire problem with the scene is that it just felt too open ended
- 26/01/2010 08:58:37 AM
1389 Views
Can't she knot it to disapate after being examined once?
- 26/01/2010 03:43:55 AM
1293 Views
Do we have evidence that this is possible?
- 26/01/2010 03:44:48 AM
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Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead.
- 26/01/2010 02:03:51 AM
1435 Views
I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive.
- 26/01/2010 07:38:40 AM
1217 Views
- 26/01/2010 11:42:04 AM
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Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive.
- 26/01/2010 08:49:00 AM
1409 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive.
- 26/01/2010 09:19:35 AM
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Moiraine probably learned it while researching with Adealas and Vandene. *NM*
- 26/01/2010 04:57:09 PM
930 Views
- 26/01/2010 11:42:04 AM
1398 Views
He was balefired by a direct stream in front of at least two credible witnesses.
- 26/01/2010 04:10:13 PM
1411 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead.
- 25/01/2010 08:56:16 PM
1472 Views
I believe she's dead
- 25/01/2010 09:06:37 PM
1330 Views
Re: I believe she's dead
- 25/01/2010 09:09:58 PM
1367 Views
Besides, if it wasn't Graendal, it implies that she knew of Rand's plan, which is not feasible *NM*
- 26/01/2010 02:01:41 PM
731 Views
The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene!
- 25/01/2010 11:54:02 PM
1482 Views
Re: The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene!
- 26/01/2010 01:22:57 AM
1238 Views
Stop passing judgments...
- 26/01/2010 02:05:21 AM
1442 Views
But your theories are becoming increasingly farfetched
- 26/01/2010 04:21:21 AM
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I repeat that I find her "death" monumental...
- 26/01/2010 07:16:13 PM
1298 Views
Re: I repeat that I find her "death" monumental...
- 26/01/2010 07:23:29 PM
1328 Views
Dude, then you derailed the thread...
- 26/01/2010 07:31:55 PM
1205 Views
no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place
- 26/01/2010 08:51:31 AM
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Re: no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place
- 26/01/2010 11:37:26 AM
1413 Views
read the whole quote
- 26/01/2010 04:35:17 PM
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LOL! You read the whole quote
- 26/01/2010 07:00:41 PM
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the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together.
- 27/01/2010 12:40:09 AM
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Re: the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together.
- 28/01/2010 04:28:21 PM
1376 Views
I don't see any flaws.
- 25/01/2010 09:14:44 PM
1465 Views
But...
- 25/01/2010 11:44:49 PM
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Re: But...
- 26/01/2010 01:14:51 AM
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That still doesn't make sense.
- 26/01/2010 02:23:12 AM
1449 Views
But, having a clean up guy does make sense.
- 26/01/2010 03:02:13 AM
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- 26/01/2010 03:02:13 AM
1451 Views
But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy!
- 26/01/2010 03:35:44 AM
1285 Views
Nonsense.
- 26/01/2010 07:50:04 AM
1174 Views
Dude, read what I said please...
- 26/01/2010 07:21:52 PM
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Re: Dude, read what I said please...
- 26/01/2010 09:28:25 PM
1342 Views
Kerb had no initiative... he was under too heavy a Compulsion to think for himself
- 27/01/2010 12:45:47 AM
1216 Views
I think he had some, albeit probably not a whole lot
- 27/01/2010 01:03:44 AM
1267 Views
Messenger was running around being obvious. Noone would suspect Kerb though. Case Closed. *NM*
- 26/01/2010 11:08:16 AM
837 Views
Thank the creator you're not in the police then. *NM*
- 26/01/2010 07:22:29 PM
798 Views
Ok, in more detail:
- 26/01/2010 08:16:30 PM
1371 Views
Thoughts
- 26/01/2010 01:05:45 AM
1197 Views
Nope. Ramshalan was just "collecting taxes" or something.
- 26/01/2010 11:10:25 AM
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Re: Nope. Ramshalan was NOT just "collecting taxes" or something.
- 26/01/2010 05:41:17 PM
1228 Views
By, the way, if I understand this correctly...
- 26/01/2010 04:49:45 PM
1462 Views
I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
- 26/01/2010 07:29:42 PM
1270 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
- 26/01/2010 09:42:52 PM
1039 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
- 27/01/2010 03:26:46 AM
1302 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
- 27/01/2010 04:05:23 AM
1379 Views
That's not fair
- 27/01/2010 04:09:38 AM
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I agree about the 'awesome' part
.
- 27/01/2010 05:41:00 AM
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.
- 27/01/2010 05:41:00 AM
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Does anybody have a link to it? (nothing on Google). I'm intrigued. *NM*
- 27/01/2010 08:27:13 AM
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It was on Wotmania. Someone copied all the theories, but I don't recall whom. *NM*
- 27/01/2010 08:31:00 AM
863 Views
I just think it's funny that what you call omniscience has been done by the Forsaken before.
- 27/01/2010 02:02:44 PM
1197 Views
But Graendal was the victim of a greater plot.
- 27/01/2010 05:30:28 PM
1317 Views
So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal.
- 27/01/2010 05:57:20 PM
1411 Views
Re: So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal.
- 28/01/2010 04:05:21 AM
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Give me one example. Just one. *NM*
- 27/01/2010 06:52:44 PM
812 Views
Ishamael plans millennia ahead by sowing the seeds for the Black Ajah, the Seanchan and the current
- 28/01/2010 01:57:39 PM
1354 Views
Not even comparable.
- 28/01/2010 06:31:06 PM
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Re: Not even comparable.
- 28/01/2010 07:50:38 PM
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Could you please take the effort to read my posts?
- 28/01/2010 10:45:01 PM
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And, just to double post:
- 27/01/2010 07:12:17 PM
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Re: And, just to double post:
- 27/01/2010 08:25:45 PM
1337 Views
Nice answer.
- 28/01/2010 12:10:27 AM
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Re: Nice answer.
- 28/01/2010 01:55:16 PM
1253 Views
Hilarious.
- 28/01/2010 06:36:22 PM
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Re: Hilarious.
- 28/01/2010 07:15:20 PM
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Re: Hilarious.
- 28/01/2010 07:41:29 PM
1287 Views
Re: Hilarious.
- 28/01/2010 07:53:34 PM
1143 Views
Re: Hilarious.
- 28/01/2010 10:55:57 PM
1312 Views
That's because you didn't look at other posts.
- 29/01/2010 03:37:08 PM
1252 Views
Moridin's main directive was..
- 29/01/2010 03:57:41 PM
1298 Views
Re: Moridin's main directive was..
- 29/01/2010 04:50:16 PM
1374 Views
Preventing order wasn't accomplished...
- 29/01/2010 05:12:22 PM
1306 Views
I disagree.
- 29/01/2010 05:28:59 PM
1679 Views
I will stop our discussion here; the posts are already pushed too far to the right of my display.
*NM*
- 29/01/2010 06:14:29 PM
658 Views
*NM*
- 29/01/2010 06:14:29 PM
658 Views
You expect me to search every post you've made on this forum, ever?
- 29/01/2010 06:50:49 PM
1240 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
- 27/01/2010 01:00:42 AM
1259 Views
I don't see a flaw
- 27/01/2010 06:24:44 AM
1337 Views
Re: I don't see a flaw
- 27/01/2010 04:18:27 PM
1302 Views
Yup, I'm tired of seeing arguments that ignore the need to back up their own claims.
- 27/01/2010 05:47:16 PM
1286 Views
I don't think there's a flaw, I think you misinterpret Graendal's plans
- 27/01/2010 06:57:44 PM
1284 Views
Good point on Ituralde - he may still be Compulsed in ways we're yet to discover. *NM*
- 28/01/2010 04:11:15 AM
772 Views
Re: Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story.
- 27/01/2010 09:11:32 PM
1270 Views

*NM*