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Re: Hilarious. Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 28/01/2010 07:41:29 PM
No; I just don't find any particular reason to lay out my reasons ad nauseum, to refute any of your points nor to engage in constant back and forth about it.

I don't really consider message boards to necessitate debate on every topic or opinion.


Well, you've been doing a terrible job of not laying out your reasons or engaging in back and forth, but I'll agree that you haven't bothered to refute points. Which is funny, because the reason you apparently felt the need to post here was to say

In fact, I fail to see one response that can strike down the most critical aspect of Fionwe, darius, Heiko and my own disbelief: Graendal might have wanted Rand to come, and designed a series of lures.

No response addresses this, nor do they address the series of incidents that would need to happen to accomplish it.


So apparently you did at some point believe in the need to back up arguments and respond to them, but I guess you sacrificed that when your position became indefensible.
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter

Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
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Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story. fionwe1987 - 25/01/2010 05:18:23 PM 2891 Views
I think Graendal's death was a great scene Etzel - 25/01/2010 05:26:51 PM 1626 Views
The scene itself was great. The rest is crap. fionwe1987 - 25/01/2010 05:37:44 PM 1455 Views
After reading 12 WoT books... Etzel - 25/01/2010 05:46:31 PM 1527 Views
You also ignored... randfandom - 25/01/2010 08:15:34 PM 1510 Views
and of course, the obvious theme Sidious - 25/01/2010 09:02:56 PM 1358 Views
Bah! fionwe1987 - 25/01/2010 11:49:33 PM 1499 Views
It's possible that this was mainly written by BS Etzel - 26/01/2010 12:03:03 PM 1436 Views
I think playing too many games just messes up with the integrety and solidness of the books ... amirebram - 26/01/2010 09:46:16 PM 2924 Views
I agree that the set up for her death was rather lame darius_sedai - 25/01/2010 06:14:07 PM 1683 Views
I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 25/01/2010 06:18:30 PM 1476 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. Underwood - 25/01/2010 06:44:34 PM 1412 Views
well one of her major character parallels is Josef Mengel darius_sedai - 25/01/2010 06:54:43 PM 1211 Views
Can you think of any way that would explain the Compulsion vanishing? beetnemesis - 25/01/2010 07:52:40 PM 1247 Views
that's kind of my whole point darius_sedai - 25/01/2010 08:43:19 PM 1177 Views
Uh, not actually at all really Sidious - 25/01/2010 09:07:52 PM 1476 Views
*shudders* Yondaime - 26/01/2010 02:27:35 AM 1342 Views
*shrugs* darius_sedai - 26/01/2010 08:47:21 AM 1397 Views
None of those "easy explanations" could work beetnemesis - 26/01/2010 07:14:16 AM 1291 Views
my entire problem with the scene is that it just felt too open ended darius_sedai - 26/01/2010 08:58:37 AM 1349 Views
Can't she knot it to disapate after being examined once? Rurouni_Kenshin - 26/01/2010 03:43:55 AM 1239 Views
Do we have evidence that this is possible? Yondaime - 26/01/2010 03:44:48 AM 1379 Views
why would Graendal do that anyway? Sidious - 26/01/2010 04:26:38 AM 1389 Views
Re: why would Graendal do that anyway? Rurouni_Kenshin - 03/02/2010 02:52:32 AM 1300 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/01/2010 02:03:51 AM 1395 Views
I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 07:38:40 AM 1178 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. darius_sedai - 26/01/2010 08:49:00 AM 1367 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. Lord Haart - 26/01/2010 09:19:35 AM 1164 Views
Moiraine probably learned it while researching with Adealas and Vandene. *NM* Gher - 26/01/2010 04:57:09 PM 915 Views
Sidious - 26/01/2010 11:42:04 AM 1362 Views
Didn't Balthamel and Aginor leave corpses? Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 04:35:19 PM 1364 Views
Re: Didn't Balthamel and Aginor leave corpses? Sidious - 26/01/2010 07:06:01 PM 1231 Views
Re: RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/01/2010 04:44:06 PM 1355 Views
He was balefired by a direct stream in front of at least two credible witnesses. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/01/2010 04:10:13 PM 1375 Views
Me, Too. The Name With No Man - 28/01/2010 08:00:09 PM 1338 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. Sidious - 25/01/2010 08:56:16 PM 1434 Views
I believe she's dead Sareitha Sedai - 25/01/2010 09:06:37 PM 1285 Views
Re: I believe she's dead Sidious - 25/01/2010 09:09:58 PM 1329 Views
I don't think she would have taught anyone Sareitha Sedai - 25/01/2010 09:18:03 PM 1186 Views
Besides, if it wasn't Graendal, it implies that she knew of Rand's plan, which is not feasible *NM* Shannow - 26/01/2010 02:01:41 PM 716 Views
The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene! fionwe1987 - 25/01/2010 11:54:02 PM 1443 Views
Re: The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene! Underwood - 26/01/2010 01:22:57 AM 1195 Views
Stop passing judgments... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 02:05:21 AM 1403 Views
But your theories are becoming increasingly farfetched Sidious - 26/01/2010 04:21:21 AM 1277 Views
I repeat that I find her "death" monumental... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:16:13 PM 1264 Views
Re: I repeat that I find her "death" monumental... Sidious - 26/01/2010 07:23:29 PM 1286 Views
Dude, then you derailed the thread... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:31:55 PM 1168 Views
Not really Sidious - 26/01/2010 07:35:06 PM 1275 Views
Re: Not really fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:45:20 PM 1356 Views
Re: Not really Sidious - 28/01/2010 04:27:17 PM 1268 Views
Re: Stop passing judgments... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/01/2010 04:40:37 PM 1235 Views
*NM* RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/01/2010 05:00:10 PM 675 Views
Everyone can see residues- only a select few can "read" them beetnemesis - 26/01/2010 07:42:19 AM 1328 Views
no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place darius_sedai - 26/01/2010 08:51:31 AM 1224 Views
Re: no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place Sidious - 26/01/2010 11:37:26 AM 1362 Views
read the whole quote darius_sedai - 26/01/2010 04:35:17 PM 1015 Views
LOL! You read the whole quote Sidious - 26/01/2010 07:00:41 PM 1159 Views
the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together. darius_sedai - 27/01/2010 12:40:09 AM 1214 Views
Re: the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together. Sidious - 28/01/2010 04:28:21 PM 1337 Views
I don't see any flaws. Skeeve the Great - 25/01/2010 09:14:44 PM 1423 Views
But... fionwe1987 - 25/01/2010 11:44:49 PM 1158 Views
Re: But... Skeeve the Great - 26/01/2010 01:14:51 AM 1323 Views
That is what I thought ... Yondaime - 26/01/2010 01:24:18 AM 1210 Views
That still doesn't make sense. fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 02:23:12 AM 1404 Views
But, having a clean up guy does make sense. Yondaime - 26/01/2010 03:02:13 AM 1407 Views
But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy! fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 03:35:44 AM 1247 Views
Re: But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy! Yondaime - 26/01/2010 04:12:41 AM 1223 Views
Nonsense. Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 07:50:04 AM 1137 Views
Dude, read what I said please... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:21:52 PM 1324 Views
Re: Dude, read what I said please... Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 09:28:25 PM 1297 Views
Kerb had no initiative... he was under too heavy a Compulsion to think for himself darius_sedai - 27/01/2010 12:45:47 AM 1176 Views
I think he had some, albeit probably not a whole lot Yondaime - 27/01/2010 01:03:44 AM 1235 Views
Nynaeve and Elayne were under a weaker compulsion... fionwe1987 - 27/01/2010 03:10:52 AM 1076 Views
We don't know that, exactly Yondaime - 27/01/2010 03:50:44 AM 1121 Views
If you cannot provide an answer... fionwe1987 - 27/01/2010 03:10:40 AM 1207 Views
Seriously? Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 03:55:57 AM 1253 Views
Maybe... Etzel - 27/01/2010 11:08:10 AM 1182 Views
Messenger was running around being obvious. Noone would suspect Kerb though. Case Closed. *NM* Lord Haart - 26/01/2010 11:08:16 AM 822 Views
Thank the creator you're not in the police then. *NM* fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:22:29 PM 775 Views
Ok, in more detail: Lord Haart - 26/01/2010 08:16:30 PM 1321 Views
I'm tired of making this point... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 08:39:22 PM 1070 Views
Re: I'm tired of making this point... Syraelle - 26/01/2010 08:44:51 PM 1227 Views
Thoughts Heiko - 26/01/2010 01:05:45 AM 1160 Views
But that means she's dead Skeeve the Great - 26/01/2010 01:20:19 AM 1211 Views
Re: But that means she's dead Heiko - 26/01/2010 05:31:25 AM 1305 Views
Nope. Ramshalan was just "collecting taxes" or something. Lord Haart - 26/01/2010 11:10:25 AM 1126 Views
Re: Nope. Ramshalan was NOT just "collecting taxes" or something. Syraelle - 26/01/2010 05:41:17 PM 1189 Views
By, the way, if I understand this correctly... Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 04:49:45 PM 1404 Views
Indeed... Etzel - 26/01/2010 05:13:53 PM 1390 Views
Re: Indeed... Sidious - 26/01/2010 07:04:40 PM 1221 Views
I'm not arguing she's alive, but... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:29:42 PM 1230 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... Underwood - 26/01/2010 07:58:41 PM 1205 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 09:42:52 PM 1008 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... fionwe1987 - 27/01/2010 03:26:46 AM 1249 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 04:05:23 AM 1326 Views
That's not fair Yondaime - 27/01/2010 04:09:38 AM 1193 Views
I agree about the 'awesome' part . Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 05:41:00 AM 1133 Views
Does anybody have a link to it? (nothing on Google). I'm intrigued. *NM* Lord Haart - 27/01/2010 08:27:13 AM 716 Views
It was on Wotmania. Someone copied all the theories, but I don't recall whom. *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 08:31:00 AM 845 Views
I just think it's funny that what you call omniscience has been done by the Forsaken before. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/01/2010 02:02:44 PM 1151 Views
But Graendal was the victim of a greater plot. Lord Haart - 27/01/2010 05:30:28 PM 1272 Views
So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/01/2010 05:57:20 PM 1369 Views
Re: So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal. Lord Haart - 28/01/2010 04:05:21 AM 1342 Views
Give me one example. Just one. *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 06:52:44 PM 795 Views
Ishamael plans millennia ahead by sowing the seeds for the Black Ajah, the Seanchan and the current RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/01/2010 01:57:39 PM 1313 Views
Not even comparable. Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 06:31:06 PM 1075 Views
Re: Not even comparable. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/01/2010 07:50:38 PM 1207 Views
Could you please take the effort to read my posts? Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 10:45:01 PM 1168 Views
Re: Could you please take the effort to read my posts? RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/01/2010 03:49:43 PM 1212 Views
Re: Could you please take the effort to read my posts? Fanatic-Templar - 29/01/2010 06:40:43 PM 1219 Views
And, just to double post: Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 07:12:17 PM 970 Views
Re: And, just to double post: RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/01/2010 08:25:45 PM 1297 Views
Nice answer. Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 12:10:27 AM 1280 Views
Re: Nice answer. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/01/2010 01:55:16 PM 1217 Views
Hilarious. Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 06:36:22 PM 1342 Views
Re: Hilarious. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/01/2010 07:15:20 PM 1229 Views
Re: Hilarious. Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 07:41:29 PM 1248 Views
Re: Hilarious. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/01/2010 07:53:34 PM 1104 Views
Re: Hilarious. Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 10:55:57 PM 1263 Views
That's because you didn't look at other posts. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/01/2010 03:37:08 PM 1208 Views
Moridin's main directive was.. Etzel - 29/01/2010 03:57:41 PM 1259 Views
Re: Moridin's main directive was.. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/01/2010 04:50:16 PM 1327 Views
Preventing order wasn't accomplished... Etzel - 29/01/2010 05:12:22 PM 1266 Views
I disagree. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/01/2010 05:28:59 PM 1625 Views
I will stop our discussion here; the posts are already pushed too far to the right of my display. *NM* Etzel - 29/01/2010 06:14:29 PM 641 Views
You expect me to search every post you've made on this forum, ever? Fanatic-Templar - 29/01/2010 06:50:49 PM 1193 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... Skeeve the Great - 27/01/2010 01:00:42 AM 1198 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... fionwe1987 - 27/01/2010 03:26:56 AM 1246 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... Skeeve the Great - 27/01/2010 05:35:39 AM 1218 Views
I don't see a flaw rAndy aL - 27/01/2010 06:24:44 AM 1298 Views
Re: I don't see a flaw Underwood - 27/01/2010 04:18:27 PM 1263 Views
Yup, I'm tired of seeing arguments that ignore the need to back up their own claims. Lord Haart - 27/01/2010 05:47:16 PM 1242 Views
Let's give you one logic path for Millisair being poisoned. TheUltimateReality - 27/01/2010 05:47:04 PM 1260 Views
Spot on. *NM* Lord Haart - 28/01/2010 04:09:26 AM 785 Views
I don't think there's a flaw, I think you misinterpret Graendal's plans DomA - 27/01/2010 06:57:44 PM 1249 Views
Good point on Ituralde - he may still be Compulsed in ways we're yet to discover. *NM* Lord Haart - 28/01/2010 04:11:15 AM 758 Views
Compulsion is limited Sidious - 28/01/2010 04:30:24 PM 1196 Views
Re: Compulsion is limited Lord Haart - 28/01/2010 06:35:05 PM 1350 Views
Re: Compulsion is limited DomA - 28/01/2010 08:26:37 PM 1127 Views
Re: Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story. taura-tierno - 27/01/2010 09:11:32 PM 1227 Views
There's really no further purpose for her character. Libby - 09/02/2010 10:52:58 PM 1291 Views
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