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Could you please take the effort to read my posts? Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 28/01/2010 10:45:01 PM
Where is precognition involved in Graendal wanting Rand to be lured to her base if that was her plan? Where is precognition necessary if she had prepared defensive weaves around her palace to detect the presence of male or female channelers and/or enemy forces?

What you call precognition is nothing more than plotting and seeing how those plots develop.

She couldn't have done it because it requires a number of highly unlikely incidents that were likely influenced by Rand's ta'veren presence. Only a channeler would have been able to Delve Milisair. Only someone with knowledge of herbs could have identified the poison. This person would have to find and Delve Milisair within the one week time window between the beginning of the poisoning and her death - and the poisononing had to be begun before the investigation, so that time window had to be very well predicted. Which, as we know, means that Graendal had to predict the conversation between Rand and Nynaeve, and Nynaeve's reaction to it. Then she had to predict that someone would be able to unravel her Compulsion, something that is generally considered impossible. And that's to say nothing of the Compulsion on Ramshalan. Then she had to predict that Rand would balefire or otherwise wipe out Graendal's entire palace from a distance, something that is completely different from his modus operandi in dealing with Forsaken thus far: he confronted Aginor, Be'lal, Ishamael, Lanfear, Rahvin, Sammael and Semirhage in person, after all.


So, in reiteration, she had to predict that a channeler with the Delving Talent and knowledge in poisons would Delve Milisair in a one week time window after she had begun being poisoned but before she died, that the Compulsion on Kerb could and would be unraveled, that Kerb would still be sufficiently cognisant to identify the location of her lair to Rand, and that Rand would then destroy her entire abode from afar, contrary to all previous experience.

That is what requires precognition.
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter

Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
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Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story. - 25/01/2010 05:18:23 PM 2940 Views
I think Graendal's death was a great scene - 25/01/2010 05:26:51 PM 1688 Views
The scene itself was great. The rest is crap. - 25/01/2010 05:37:44 PM 1515 Views
After reading 12 WoT books... - 25/01/2010 05:46:31 PM 1571 Views
You also ignored... - 25/01/2010 08:15:34 PM 1561 Views
and of course, the obvious theme - 25/01/2010 09:02:56 PM 1411 Views
Bah! - 25/01/2010 11:49:33 PM 1553 Views
It's possible that this was mainly written by BS - 26/01/2010 12:03:03 PM 1486 Views
I agree that the set up for her death was rather lame - 25/01/2010 06:14:07 PM 1720 Views
I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 25/01/2010 06:18:30 PM 1521 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 25/01/2010 06:44:34 PM 1461 Views
well one of her major character parallels is Josef Mengel - 25/01/2010 06:54:43 PM 1260 Views
Can you think of any way that would explain the Compulsion vanishing? - 25/01/2010 07:52:40 PM 1293 Views
that's kind of my whole point - 25/01/2010 08:43:19 PM 1228 Views
Uh, not actually at all really - 25/01/2010 09:07:52 PM 1528 Views
*shudders* - 26/01/2010 02:27:35 AM 1392 Views
*shrugs* - 26/01/2010 08:47:21 AM 1445 Views
None of those "easy explanations" could work - 26/01/2010 07:14:16 AM 1347 Views
my entire problem with the scene is that it just felt too open ended - 26/01/2010 08:58:37 AM 1400 Views
Can't she knot it to disapate after being examined once? - 26/01/2010 03:43:55 AM 1295 Views
Do we have evidence that this is possible? - 26/01/2010 03:44:48 AM 1431 Views
why would Graendal do that anyway? - 26/01/2010 04:26:38 AM 1434 Views
Re: why would Graendal do that anyway? - 03/02/2010 02:52:32 AM 1341 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 26/01/2010 02:03:51 AM 1445 Views
I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. - 26/01/2010 07:38:40 AM 1224 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. - 26/01/2010 08:49:00 AM 1414 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. - 26/01/2010 09:19:35 AM 1229 Views
- 26/01/2010 11:42:04 AM 1401 Views
Didn't Balthamel and Aginor leave corpses? - 26/01/2010 04:35:19 PM 1423 Views
Re: Didn't Balthamel and Aginor leave corpses? - 26/01/2010 07:06:01 PM 1284 Views
Re: - 26/01/2010 04:44:06 PM 1403 Views
He was balefired by a direct stream in front of at least two credible witnesses. - 26/01/2010 04:10:13 PM 1417 Views
Me, Too. - 28/01/2010 08:00:09 PM 1382 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 25/01/2010 08:56:16 PM 1479 Views
I believe she's dead - 25/01/2010 09:06:37 PM 1339 Views
Re: I believe she's dead - 25/01/2010 09:09:58 PM 1376 Views
I don't think she would have taught anyone - 25/01/2010 09:18:03 PM 1247 Views
The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene! - 25/01/2010 11:54:02 PM 1492 Views
Re: The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene! - 26/01/2010 01:22:57 AM 1246 Views
Stop passing judgments... - 26/01/2010 02:05:21 AM 1447 Views
But your theories are becoming increasingly farfetched - 26/01/2010 04:21:21 AM 1332 Views
I repeat that I find her "death" monumental... - 26/01/2010 07:16:13 PM 1307 Views
Re: I repeat that I find her "death" monumental... - 26/01/2010 07:23:29 PM 1340 Views
Dude, then you derailed the thread... - 26/01/2010 07:31:55 PM 1213 Views
Not really - 26/01/2010 07:35:06 PM 1329 Views
Re: Not really - 26/01/2010 07:45:20 PM 1418 Views
Re: Not really - 28/01/2010 04:27:17 PM 1315 Views
Re: Stop passing judgments... - 26/01/2010 04:40:37 PM 1301 Views
*NM* - 26/01/2010 05:00:10 PM 692 Views
Everyone can see residues- only a select few can "read" them - 26/01/2010 07:42:19 AM 1376 Views
no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place - 26/01/2010 08:51:31 AM 1271 Views
Re: no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place - 26/01/2010 11:37:26 AM 1420 Views
read the whole quote - 26/01/2010 04:35:17 PM 1058 Views
LOL! You read the whole quote - 26/01/2010 07:00:41 PM 1203 Views
the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together. - 27/01/2010 12:40:09 AM 1263 Views
Re: the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together. - 28/01/2010 04:28:21 PM 1381 Views
I don't see any flaws. - 25/01/2010 09:14:44 PM 1471 Views
But... - 25/01/2010 11:44:49 PM 1213 Views
Re: But... - 26/01/2010 01:14:51 AM 1367 Views
That is what I thought ... - 26/01/2010 01:24:18 AM 1254 Views
That still doesn't make sense. - 26/01/2010 02:23:12 AM 1460 Views
But, having a clean up guy does make sense. - 26/01/2010 03:02:13 AM 1461 Views
But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy! - 26/01/2010 03:35:44 AM 1290 Views
Re: But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy! - 26/01/2010 04:12:41 AM 1264 Views
Nonsense. - 26/01/2010 07:50:04 AM 1177 Views
Dude, read what I said please... - 26/01/2010 07:21:52 PM 1384 Views
Re: Dude, read what I said please... - 26/01/2010 09:28:25 PM 1348 Views
Kerb had no initiative... he was under too heavy a Compulsion to think for himself - 27/01/2010 12:45:47 AM 1222 Views
I think he had some, albeit probably not a whole lot - 27/01/2010 01:03:44 AM 1272 Views
Nynaeve and Elayne were under a weaker compulsion... - 27/01/2010 03:10:52 AM 1122 Views
We don't know that, exactly - 27/01/2010 03:50:44 AM 1166 Views
If you cannot provide an answer... - 27/01/2010 03:10:40 AM 1253 Views
Seriously? - 27/01/2010 03:55:57 AM 1301 Views
Maybe... - 27/01/2010 11:08:10 AM 1227 Views
Messenger was running around being obvious. Noone would suspect Kerb though. Case Closed. *NM* - 26/01/2010 11:08:16 AM 840 Views
Thank the creator you're not in the police then. *NM* - 26/01/2010 07:22:29 PM 801 Views
Ok, in more detail: - 26/01/2010 08:16:30 PM 1378 Views
I'm tired of making this point... - 26/01/2010 08:39:22 PM 1127 Views
Re: I'm tired of making this point... - 26/01/2010 08:44:51 PM 1287 Views
Thoughts - 26/01/2010 01:05:45 AM 1208 Views
But that means she's dead - 26/01/2010 01:20:19 AM 1278 Views
Re: But that means she's dead - 26/01/2010 05:31:25 AM 1368 Views
Nope. Ramshalan was just "collecting taxes" or something. - 26/01/2010 11:10:25 AM 1171 Views
Re: Nope. Ramshalan was NOT just "collecting taxes" or something. - 26/01/2010 05:41:17 PM 1233 Views
By, the way, if I understand this correctly... - 26/01/2010 04:49:45 PM 1469 Views
Indeed... - 26/01/2010 05:13:53 PM 1430 Views
Re: Indeed... - 26/01/2010 07:04:40 PM 1284 Views
I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 26/01/2010 07:29:42 PM 1274 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 26/01/2010 07:58:41 PM 1254 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 26/01/2010 09:42:52 PM 1046 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 03:26:46 AM 1311 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 04:05:23 AM 1385 Views
That's not fair - 27/01/2010 04:09:38 AM 1243 Views
I agree about the 'awesome' part . - 27/01/2010 05:41:00 AM 1191 Views
I just think it's funny that what you call omniscience has been done by the Forsaken before. - 27/01/2010 02:02:44 PM 1200 Views
But Graendal was the victim of a greater plot. - 27/01/2010 05:30:28 PM 1318 Views
So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal. - 27/01/2010 05:57:20 PM 1418 Views
Give me one example. Just one. *NM* - 27/01/2010 06:52:44 PM 815 Views
Ishamael plans millennia ahead by sowing the seeds for the Black Ajah, the Seanchan and the current - 28/01/2010 01:57:39 PM 1361 Views
Not even comparable. - 28/01/2010 06:31:06 PM 1125 Views
Re: Not even comparable. - 28/01/2010 07:50:38 PM 1254 Views
Could you please take the effort to read my posts? - 28/01/2010 10:45:01 PM 1222 Views
Re: Could you please take the effort to read my posts? - 29/01/2010 03:49:43 PM 1261 Views
Re: Could you please take the effort to read my posts? - 29/01/2010 06:40:43 PM 1269 Views
And, just to double post: - 27/01/2010 07:12:17 PM 1014 Views
Re: And, just to double post: - 27/01/2010 08:25:45 PM 1342 Views
Nice answer. - 28/01/2010 12:10:27 AM 1318 Views
Re: Nice answer. - 28/01/2010 01:55:16 PM 1264 Views
Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 06:36:22 PM 1390 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 07:15:20 PM 1267 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 07:41:29 PM 1295 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 07:53:34 PM 1148 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 10:55:57 PM 1323 Views
That's because you didn't look at other posts. - 29/01/2010 03:37:08 PM 1266 Views
Moridin's main directive was.. - 29/01/2010 03:57:41 PM 1311 Views
Re: Moridin's main directive was.. - 29/01/2010 04:50:16 PM 1380 Views
Preventing order wasn't accomplished... - 29/01/2010 05:12:22 PM 1317 Views
I disagree. - 29/01/2010 05:28:59 PM 1686 Views
You expect me to search every post you've made on this forum, ever? - 29/01/2010 06:50:49 PM 1246 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 01:00:42 AM 1265 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 03:26:56 AM 1299 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 05:35:39 AM 1255 Views
I don't see a flaw - 27/01/2010 06:24:44 AM 1341 Views
Re: I don't see a flaw - 27/01/2010 04:18:27 PM 1315 Views
Let's give you one logic path for Millisair being poisoned. - 27/01/2010 05:47:04 PM 1313 Views
Spot on. *NM* - 28/01/2010 04:09:26 AM 808 Views
I don't think there's a flaw, I think you misinterpret Graendal's plans - 27/01/2010 06:57:44 PM 1289 Views
Good point on Ituralde - he may still be Compulsed in ways we're yet to discover. *NM* - 28/01/2010 04:11:15 AM 774 Views
Compulsion is limited - 28/01/2010 04:30:24 PM 1243 Views
Re: Compulsion is limited - 28/01/2010 06:35:05 PM 1396 Views
Re: Compulsion is limited - 28/01/2010 08:26:37 PM 1177 Views
Re: Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story. - 27/01/2010 09:11:32 PM 1277 Views
There's really no further purpose for her character. - 09/02/2010 10:52:58 PM 1348 Views

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