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This ties in with his parallel to Lucifer. Kieran Send a noteboard - 03/03/2010 12:57:37 AM
Ishamael is the ultimate villain and minion for the Dark One. He believes in pure evil, knows what it means to break the Wheel, and still supports it. This makes him unique among the Forsaken - the rest still think that they'll rule in hell.

In part, I therefore disagree with Shannow. I think Ishamael, like every great philosopher in our history, is a step higher in mental functioning. He is more intelligent than the other Forsaken, and probably every character we know. The fact that he chose the wrong side is curious, except for the fact that he thinks it is the right side. That's possibly why his peers think he's mad.


Ishamael has many similarities to the fallen angel Lucifer. In this case how absolute knowledge brings Pride and a Nihilistic PoV to life. As the Bible puts it: "Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee", and later, "Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee." This tells of how he had ultimate wisdom and through his great reasoning fell.
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Ishamael's nature Sidious - 01/03/2010 05:27:48 PM 1830 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature Watcher - 01/03/2010 07:15:54 PM 843 Views
Sisyphus *NM* damookster - 02/03/2010 02:27:06 AM 297 Views
Not a question of intelligence. Rather, a different way of thinking... Shannow - 01/03/2010 07:23:37 PM 868 Views
I'd go with this - he lost sight of the forest for enumerating the trees. Cannoli - 01/03/2010 08:21:39 PM 944 Views
I agree, except with your statement on what Ishamael's area of expertise is ... Shishka - 02/03/2010 03:17:13 PM 688 Views
Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil Sidious - 02/03/2010 04:38:06 PM 724 Views
Are you saying that philosophers are inherently more intelligent than other academics? Shannow - 02/03/2010 04:53:13 PM 617 Views
Maybe Sidious - 02/03/2010 06:00:20 PM 685 Views
Crap File Leader - 02/03/2010 08:58:12 PM 663 Views
That high IQ should make you realise that I am making the same point you are... Shannow - 02/03/2010 09:53:59 PM 627 Views
I think the averages are averages. Kieran - 03/03/2010 01:14:41 AM 600 Views
Re: Crap RugbyPlayingAshaman - 05/03/2010 08:46:56 PM 568 Views
Re: Crap mogi67 - 07/03/2010 11:36:16 PM 544 Views
I love IQ tests. Fanatic-Templar - 08/03/2010 01:18:10 AM 536 Views
Re: Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil Shishka - 02/03/2010 05:30:43 PM 646 Views
Re: Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil Sidious - 02/03/2010 06:01:41 PM 646 Views
Re: Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil mogi67 - 07/03/2010 11:31:14 PM 581 Views
I'm not an expert on nihilism, but ... Shishka - 08/03/2010 05:22:33 PM 728 Views
I doubt that. Fanatic-Templar - 08/03/2010 01:21:32 AM 549 Views
Re: I doubt that. car'a'aman - 08/03/2010 12:41:43 PM 543 Views
Yep, I agree. Shishka - 08/03/2010 05:58:03 PM 642 Views
This ties in with his parallel to Lucifer. Kieran - 03/03/2010 12:57:37 AM 626 Views
Re: Not a question of intelligence. Rather, a different way of thinking... BlackAdder - 02/03/2010 07:22:58 PM 593 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature newyorkersedai - 02/03/2010 01:49:19 AM 668 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature car'a'aman - 02/03/2010 02:51:44 PM 617 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature newyorkersedai - 02/03/2010 07:31:32 PM 596 Views
Both of us are saying the same thing car'a'aman - 03/03/2010 01:46:57 PM 560 Views
sorry, took "evil" too literally and newyorkersedai - 03/03/2010 07:02:01 PM 536 Views
Found a great theory about Ishamael and his logic on theoryland car'a'aman - 02/03/2010 02:48:02 PM 1036 Views
Nice Sidious - 02/03/2010 04:41:05 PM 600 Views
Impressive newyorkersedai - 02/03/2010 07:24:09 PM 598 Views
I have to disagree on one thing, at the very least... Fanatic-Templar - 08/03/2010 01:47:47 AM 595 Views
Re: I have to disagree on one thing, at the very least... car'a'aman - 08/03/2010 12:37:27 PM 550 Views
Yes, but Shai'tan himself is outside the Pattern. Fanatic-Templar - 08/03/2010 06:23:19 PM 578 Views
Re: Yes, but Shai'tan himself is outside the Pattern. car'a'aman - 09/03/2010 01:54:26 PM 579 Views
Because there is a Creator. Fanatic-Templar - 09/03/2010 05:57:16 PM 528 Views
faulty assumptions car'a'aman - 10/03/2010 05:05:23 AM 533 Views
Impossible. Fanatic-Templar - 10/03/2010 06:22:43 AM 533 Views
maybe an analogy will help car'a'aman - 10/03/2010 12:55:37 PM 941 Views
But therein lies the problem. Fanatic-Templar - 10/03/2010 04:58:42 PM 523 Views
your own argument is self defeating car'a'aman - 11/03/2010 08:10:36 AM 555 Views
No, that past was created after he was imprisoned. Fanatic-Templar - 11/03/2010 05:43:08 PM 557 Views
*sigh* I guess we will just have to agree to disagree then.... I still think your theory is flawed *NM* car'a'aman - 12/03/2010 05:11:10 AM 244 Views
Anyway I just realized this point is irrelevant to the original theory car'a'aman - 11/03/2010 08:14:20 AM 518 Views
Yes, I said that at the very beginning: *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 11/03/2010 05:44:19 PM 249 Views
Your reasons and mine for irrelevancy are different.. *NM* car'a'aman - 12/03/2010 05:12:52 AM 238 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/03/2010 10:43:16 PM 612 Views
I don't know if this has any basis in fact... Napoleon62 - 04/03/2010 02:44:26 AM 696 Views
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