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This ties in with his parallel to Lucifer. Kieran Send a noteboard - 03/03/2010 12:57:37 AM
Ishamael is the ultimate villain and minion for the Dark One. He believes in pure evil, knows what it means to break the Wheel, and still supports it. This makes him unique among the Forsaken - the rest still think that they'll rule in hell.

In part, I therefore disagree with Shannow. I think Ishamael, like every great philosopher in our history, is a step higher in mental functioning. He is more intelligent than the other Forsaken, and probably every character we know. The fact that he chose the wrong side is curious, except for the fact that he thinks it is the right side. That's possibly why his peers think he's mad.


Ishamael has many similarities to the fallen angel Lucifer. In this case how absolute knowledge brings Pride and a Nihilistic PoV to life. As the Bible puts it: "Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee", and later, "Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee." This tells of how he had ultimate wisdom and through his great reasoning fell.
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Ishamael's nature Sidious - 01/03/2010 05:27:48 PM 1797 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature Watcher - 01/03/2010 07:15:54 PM 820 Views
Sisyphus *NM* damookster - 02/03/2010 02:27:06 AM 281 Views
Not a question of intelligence. Rather, a different way of thinking... Shannow - 01/03/2010 07:23:37 PM 837 Views
I'd go with this - he lost sight of the forest for enumerating the trees. Cannoli - 01/03/2010 08:21:39 PM 907 Views
I agree, except with your statement on what Ishamael's area of expertise is ... Shishka - 02/03/2010 03:17:13 PM 664 Views
Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil Sidious - 02/03/2010 04:38:06 PM 692 Views
Are you saying that philosophers are inherently more intelligent than other academics? Shannow - 02/03/2010 04:53:13 PM 589 Views
Maybe Sidious - 02/03/2010 06:00:20 PM 655 Views
Crap File Leader - 02/03/2010 08:58:12 PM 642 Views
That high IQ should make you realise that I am making the same point you are... Shannow - 02/03/2010 09:53:59 PM 600 Views
I think the averages are averages. Kieran - 03/03/2010 01:14:41 AM 570 Views
Re: Crap RugbyPlayingAshaman - 05/03/2010 08:46:56 PM 543 Views
Re: Crap mogi67 - 07/03/2010 11:36:16 PM 513 Views
I love IQ tests. Fanatic-Templar - 08/03/2010 01:18:10 AM 509 Views
Re: Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil Shishka - 02/03/2010 05:30:43 PM 609 Views
Re: Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil Sidious - 02/03/2010 06:01:41 PM 610 Views
Re: Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil mogi67 - 07/03/2010 11:31:14 PM 550 Views
I'm not an expert on nihilism, but ... Shishka - 08/03/2010 05:22:33 PM 702 Views
I doubt that. Fanatic-Templar - 08/03/2010 01:21:32 AM 524 Views
Re: I doubt that. car'a'aman - 08/03/2010 12:41:43 PM 511 Views
Yep, I agree. Shishka - 08/03/2010 05:58:03 PM 610 Views
This ties in with his parallel to Lucifer. Kieran - 03/03/2010 12:57:37 AM 593 Views
Re: Not a question of intelligence. Rather, a different way of thinking... BlackAdder - 02/03/2010 07:22:58 PM 570 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature newyorkersedai - 02/03/2010 01:49:19 AM 642 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature car'a'aman - 02/03/2010 02:51:44 PM 588 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature newyorkersedai - 02/03/2010 07:31:32 PM 564 Views
Both of us are saying the same thing car'a'aman - 03/03/2010 01:46:57 PM 531 Views
sorry, took "evil" too literally and newyorkersedai - 03/03/2010 07:02:01 PM 510 Views
Found a great theory about Ishamael and his logic on theoryland car'a'aman - 02/03/2010 02:48:02 PM 984 Views
Nice Sidious - 02/03/2010 04:41:05 PM 578 Views
Impressive newyorkersedai - 02/03/2010 07:24:09 PM 572 Views
I have to disagree on one thing, at the very least... Fanatic-Templar - 08/03/2010 01:47:47 AM 569 Views
Re: I have to disagree on one thing, at the very least... car'a'aman - 08/03/2010 12:37:27 PM 519 Views
Yes, but Shai'tan himself is outside the Pattern. Fanatic-Templar - 08/03/2010 06:23:19 PM 552 Views
Re: Yes, but Shai'tan himself is outside the Pattern. car'a'aman - 09/03/2010 01:54:26 PM 544 Views
Because there is a Creator. Fanatic-Templar - 09/03/2010 05:57:16 PM 498 Views
faulty assumptions car'a'aman - 10/03/2010 05:05:23 AM 500 Views
Impossible. Fanatic-Templar - 10/03/2010 06:22:43 AM 497 Views
maybe an analogy will help car'a'aman - 10/03/2010 12:55:37 PM 913 Views
But therein lies the problem. Fanatic-Templar - 10/03/2010 04:58:42 PM 490 Views
your own argument is self defeating car'a'aman - 11/03/2010 08:10:36 AM 521 Views
No, that past was created after he was imprisoned. Fanatic-Templar - 11/03/2010 05:43:08 PM 528 Views
*sigh* I guess we will just have to agree to disagree then.... I still think your theory is flawed *NM* car'a'aman - 12/03/2010 05:11:10 AM 234 Views
Anyway I just realized this point is irrelevant to the original theory car'a'aman - 11/03/2010 08:14:20 AM 498 Views
Yes, I said that at the very beginning: *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 11/03/2010 05:44:19 PM 231 Views
Your reasons and mine for irrelevancy are different.. *NM* car'a'aman - 12/03/2010 05:12:52 AM 221 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/03/2010 10:43:16 PM 581 Views
I don't know if this has any basis in fact... Napoleon62 - 04/03/2010 02:44:26 AM 661 Views
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