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I have to disagree on one thing, at the very least... Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 08/03/2010 01:47:47 AM
2) Let us consider 1c, that the Wheel has seen infinite turnings (something implied by the books - there are 'neither beginnings nor endings to the turning of the WoT'. Also let us assume that 2a, ie that the DO can break free in principle. But in this case, HOWEVER low the probability of this happening in any particular Age, it WILL happen eventually given an infinite number of turnings.

The DO explicitly states as his intention to slay the Great Serpent, which can lead to either 3a - what Ishamael apparently believes, 3d - which the Forsaken and Darkfriends hope for i.e. eternal dominion. However, if the Wheel has been turning infinitely long, these possibilities are impossible. 3c is not possible for the same reasons.


The mistake here is that Shai'tan attempting to free himself is not part of the Pattern or the turning of the Wheel. Even if the Wheel has turned for infinite time, Shai'tan is outside the Pattern, he has no had an infinite amount of chances to break free.

Of course, this is ultimately irrelevant because that just means that whether the Wheel has infinite turnings or finite turnings leads to the same conclusions.
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
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Ishamael's nature Sidious - 01/03/2010 05:27:48 PM 1631 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature Watcher - 01/03/2010 07:15:54 PM 669 Views
Sisyphus *NM* damookster - 02/03/2010 02:27:06 AM 217 Views
Not a question of intelligence. Rather, a different way of thinking... Shannow - 01/03/2010 07:23:37 PM 717 Views
I'd go with this - he lost sight of the forest for enumerating the trees. Cannoli - 01/03/2010 08:21:39 PM 754 Views
I agree, except with your statement on what Ishamael's area of expertise is ... Shishka - 02/03/2010 03:17:13 PM 519 Views
Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil Sidious - 02/03/2010 04:38:06 PM 528 Views
Are you saying that philosophers are inherently more intelligent than other academics? Shannow - 02/03/2010 04:53:13 PM 443 Views
Maybe Sidious - 02/03/2010 06:00:20 PM 507 Views
Crap File Leader - 02/03/2010 08:58:12 PM 489 Views
That high IQ should make you realise that I am making the same point you are... Shannow - 02/03/2010 09:53:59 PM 460 Views
I think the averages are averages. Kieran - 03/03/2010 01:14:41 AM 420 Views
Re: Crap RugbyPlayingAshaman - 05/03/2010 08:46:56 PM 396 Views
Re: Crap mogi67 - 07/03/2010 11:36:16 PM 364 Views
I love IQ tests. Fanatic-Templar - 08/03/2010 01:18:10 AM 364 Views
Re: Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil Shishka - 02/03/2010 05:30:43 PM 453 Views
Re: Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil Sidious - 02/03/2010 06:01:41 PM 454 Views
Re: Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil mogi67 - 07/03/2010 11:31:14 PM 400 Views
I'm not an expert on nihilism, but ... Shishka - 08/03/2010 05:22:33 PM 552 Views
I doubt that. Fanatic-Templar - 08/03/2010 01:21:32 AM 370 Views
Re: I doubt that. car'a'aman - 08/03/2010 12:41:43 PM 361 Views
Yep, I agree. Shishka - 08/03/2010 05:58:03 PM 451 Views
This ties in with his parallel to Lucifer. Kieran - 03/03/2010 12:57:37 AM 442 Views
Re: Not a question of intelligence. Rather, a different way of thinking... BlackAdder - 02/03/2010 07:22:58 PM 412 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature newyorkersedai - 02/03/2010 01:49:19 AM 485 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature car'a'aman - 02/03/2010 02:51:44 PM 430 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature newyorkersedai - 02/03/2010 07:31:32 PM 408 Views
Both of us are saying the same thing car'a'aman - 03/03/2010 01:46:57 PM 384 Views
sorry, took "evil" too literally and newyorkersedai - 03/03/2010 07:02:01 PM 362 Views
Found a great theory about Ishamael and his logic on theoryland car'a'aman - 02/03/2010 02:48:02 PM 741 Views
Nice Sidious - 02/03/2010 04:41:05 PM 443 Views
Impressive newyorkersedai - 02/03/2010 07:24:09 PM 430 Views
I have to disagree on one thing, at the very least... Fanatic-Templar - 08/03/2010 01:47:47 AM 422 Views
Re: I have to disagree on one thing, at the very least... car'a'aman - 08/03/2010 12:37:27 PM 371 Views
Yes, but Shai'tan himself is outside the Pattern. Fanatic-Templar - 08/03/2010 06:23:19 PM 369 Views
Re: Yes, but Shai'tan himself is outside the Pattern. car'a'aman - 09/03/2010 01:54:26 PM 358 Views
Because there is a Creator. Fanatic-Templar - 09/03/2010 05:57:16 PM 347 Views
faulty assumptions car'a'aman - 10/03/2010 05:05:23 AM 350 Views
Impossible. Fanatic-Templar - 10/03/2010 06:22:43 AM 348 Views
maybe an analogy will help car'a'aman - 10/03/2010 12:55:37 PM 761 Views
But therein lies the problem. Fanatic-Templar - 10/03/2010 04:58:42 PM 350 Views
your own argument is self defeating car'a'aman - 11/03/2010 08:10:36 AM 372 Views
No, that past was created after he was imprisoned. Fanatic-Templar - 11/03/2010 05:43:08 PM 376 Views
*sigh* I guess we will just have to agree to disagree then.... I still think your theory is flawed *NM* car'a'aman - 12/03/2010 05:11:10 AM 175 Views
Anyway I just realized this point is irrelevant to the original theory car'a'aman - 11/03/2010 08:14:20 AM 353 Views
Yes, I said that at the very beginning: *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 11/03/2010 05:44:19 PM 171 Views
Your reasons and mine for irrelevancy are different.. *NM* car'a'aman - 12/03/2010 05:12:52 AM 160 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/03/2010 10:43:16 PM 431 Views
I don't know if this has any basis in fact... Napoleon62 - 04/03/2010 02:44:26 AM 494 Views
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