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Yes, that is kind of the problem. Joel Send a noteboard - 06/10/2011 12:13:27 AM
I choose to be generous and interpret your subject line to mean "devout Mormons are perfectly sane" rather than a return to "all religious people are nuts." Turn the other cheek, and all that stuff. ;)


Why not interpret is as I said it- the mormon faith is not much crazier than the other mainstream religions. If you say that mainstream christianity is sane, then you don't have much to stand trying to call the mormon faith nuts. You can just as easily interpret that as "devout mormons as perfectly sane" or as "all religious people are nuts". Except that I'm not making statements about people, but about organized religions.


I am not yelling at the Mormons at all. It should be clear that I'm not picking on them specifically.

Either Mormon theology is perfectly rational or all theology is irrational; there is no middle ground. I strongly disagree with that position, whether it reflects a condescending tolerance of Mormonism along with all other religious (and thus crazy, by definition) beliefs or an illogical and untenable assertion that Mormonism is rational despite its multiple, fundamental and serious internal inconsistencies.

We are not talking about a belief system that says implausible or fantastic things, not even one that says black is white, but one that says black is white AND BLACK. Calling that rational is simply incorrect; calling it legitimate because we accept all other religions despite them being equally irrational is incorrect and insulting.
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Mormons CaptainHammer - 03/10/2011 05:46:10 AM 2609 Views
Questions. Kuke - 03/10/2011 11:13:25 AM 1342 Views
Ooh! Ooh! Kuke - 03/10/2011 11:18:38 AM 1200 Views
I don't watch it. Gher - 04/10/2011 01:34:53 AM 1232 Views
Re: Questions. CaptainHammer - 03/10/2011 01:28:28 PM 1305 Views
Re: Questions. CaptainHammer - 03/10/2011 01:31:13 PM 1141 Views
I don't understand why they would be called drinks, if they were not meant to be drunk. aerocontrols - 03/10/2011 03:28:48 PM 1220 Views
Why did I look up what Quorn is? I didn't need to know that. *NM* beetnemesis - 03/10/2011 02:04:20 PM 723 Views
Wyld Stallyns!! aerocontrols - 03/10/2011 03:26:54 PM 1098 Views
STATION! *NM* Two Wongs - 03/10/2011 11:00:35 PM 654 Views
Re: One of the best replies, ever, on the internet. *NM* Gaps - 06/10/2011 02:43:07 AM 703 Views
....did we just get door-to-door'd...ONLINE?!?! *NM* LadyLorraine - 03/10/2011 11:34:19 AM 672 Views
Nope. Gher - 04/10/2011 01:32:43 AM 1170 Views
there's no real point to it LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 02:37:24 AM 2201 Views
We could use an evil cackling smilie, we do have some other evil ones Isaac - 04/10/2011 02:49:12 AM 1149 Views
wasn't going to argue... *NM* LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 02:57:00 AM 660 Views
Do you ever giggle at the name "Moroni?" Ghavrel - 03/10/2011 11:39:55 AM 1255 Views
There are Mormon literalists? Seriously? *NM* Legolas - 03/10/2011 03:02:18 PM 663 Views
In fairness, I wonder the same about Christian literalists. *NM* Ghavrel - 03/10/2011 07:57:19 PM 732 Views
Yeah, but if you're gonna believe absurdities... Legolas - 03/10/2011 09:02:32 PM 1247 Views
Are you trying to suggest that "Reformed" or some other brand of scientology is plausible? Joel - 04/10/2011 04:28:40 PM 1192 Views
Actually, no. It'd be like laughing at... Hosea. Or Nemeiah. It's just an old name. Gher - 04/10/2011 12:30:57 AM 1152 Views
I know they don't have multiple wives anymore, so no misconception there ironclad - 03/10/2011 01:23:50 PM 1170 Views
There are Fundamentalist "Mormons" who do... Danu - 03/10/2011 11:32:56 PM 1065 Views
Don't get me wrong by the way, I've met wonderful Mormons ironclad - 04/10/2011 12:22:03 PM 1148 Views
Question: Why are you such a faggot? *NM* Urza - 03/10/2011 02:23:45 PM 567 Views
Answer: because it's the only way he could return your burning love for him. Nate - 03/10/2011 03:24:23 PM 796 Views
Oh dont be such a fuddy duddy. Urza - 03/10/2011 10:42:06 PM 790 Views
Better a faggot than a fuckwad. Cheers fuckwad! *NM* everynametaken - 04/10/2011 01:27:20 AM 681 Views
Well, I suppose you'ld be the one to know. *NM* Urza - 04/10/2011 01:54:35 AM 622 Views
Really? You really just pulled a "takes one to know one"? *NM* Kronin al'Sulc - 04/10/2011 04:19:22 PM 727 Views
Re: You embarrass yourself. *NM* Gaps - 04/10/2011 01:56:02 AM 574 Views
I'll tell you whats embarresing... Urza - 04/10/2011 02:08:02 AM 902 Views
That is hilarious. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:10:50 AM 797 Views
Goodness.. Urza - 04/10/2011 03:20:30 AM 733 Views
Re: Nate - 04/10/2011 03:28:25 AM 762 Views
You know, my mother had a saying. Urza - 04/10/2011 03:39:32 AM 799 Views
I think it's safe to say ... Nate - 04/10/2011 04:09:17 AM 708 Views
I'm not sure which would be sadder... Legolas - 04/10/2011 11:32:55 AM 835 Views
*NM* ironclad - 04/10/2011 12:19:01 PM 658 Views
Re: You flatter me. *NM* Gaps - 04/10/2011 01:31:01 PM 703 Views
OK, you need to delete the "Re:" You're using it incorrectly beetnemesis - 04/10/2011 01:55:53 PM 714 Views
"Re" doesn't have to mean "reply", it can also mean "regarding". Legolas - 04/10/2011 02:01:31 PM 730 Views
Re: Re: Gaps - 04/10/2011 02:06:58 PM 753 Views
Re: Re: Stephen - 04/10/2011 02:12:57 PM 713 Views
Re: Also. Gaps - 04/10/2011 02:08:15 PM 755 Views
you are still using it incorrectly. *NM* LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 02:09:48 PM 695 Views
He's doing it on purpose though. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:31:39 PM 825 Views
Re: Yeah, it's just a shtick... Gaps - 04/10/2011 03:47:17 PM 714 Views
Those were the good old days. Nate - 04/10/2011 04:02:33 PM 732 Views
*NM* TaskmasterJack - 04/10/2011 10:02:30 PM 640 Views
I agree, it's driving me nuts *NM* ironclad - 04/10/2011 02:36:45 PM 622 Views
That's not quite right, actually. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:25:54 PM 652 Views
Disagree. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 04/10/2011 10:04:09 PM 674 Views
Considering that "CaptainHammer" is LDS, I'd rather doubt he's gay. Great Lord of Chaos - 04/10/2011 02:32:56 AM 682 Views
Re: Considering that "CaptainHammer" is LDS, I'd rather doubt he's gay. Urza - 04/10/2011 02:37:41 AM 714 Views
Heh. Oh, Ryan. Kronin al'Sulc - 04/10/2011 04:36:43 PM 829 Views
*sigh* to all of you above.... LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 03:06:21 AM 738 Views
I thought that was "Do not talk about /b/"? *NM* Great Lord of Chaos - 04/10/2011 03:12:52 AM 726 Views
i don't know, but if THAT is the first rule... LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 03:41:20 AM 685 Views
Please explain why you think we should consider you Christians. Tom - 03/10/2011 04:33:06 PM 1325 Views
you know, that does make me wonder though LadyLorraine - 03/10/2011 04:58:21 PM 1213 Views
We're not as immovable as we are sometimes portrayed. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 05:27:17 PM 1178 Views
"Even Christ didn't do that"? I can't agree. Legolas - 03/10/2011 09:00:34 PM 1196 Views
I conceded your last point. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 10:14:28 PM 1060 Views
Point of Anal Retentive Dissent: Joel - 04/10/2011 03:54:00 PM 1110 Views
That concept is alien to the Christian theological understanding, however. Tom - 03/10/2011 10:18:55 PM 1196 Views
I understand what both you and Danny are saying LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 12:19:57 AM 1140 Views
Oh, that's very simple Tom - 04/10/2011 04:02:24 AM 1167 Views
I honestly don't know what it would take. Dannymac - 04/10/2011 07:41:55 AM 1137 Views
thank you, both of you LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 01:46:05 PM 1134 Views
I love the Nicene Creed. It is such an excellent encapsulation. Rebekah - 03/10/2011 06:07:53 PM 1233 Views
Agreed. Joel - 04/10/2011 04:44:49 PM 1099 Views
The absolute best part about your post (plus the best thing about Mo's/LDS's) Jeordam - 03/10/2011 09:02:17 PM 1167 Views
Glad you enjoyed it Tom - 03/10/2011 10:10:39 PM 1277 Views
Though they can cause interesting changes in patterns. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 10:16:55 PM 1235 Views
We believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior of all mankind, and the only way back to God. Gher - 04/10/2011 01:29:30 AM 1264 Views
If you think the Book of Mormon was well-written, there is really little left to discuss. Tom - 04/10/2011 03:57:08 AM 1423 Views
I never said well-written, I said complex. Gher - 04/10/2011 07:04:24 AM 1306 Views
Ignore facts all you want to. Tom - 05/10/2011 01:07:35 AM 1195 Views
Re: If you think the Book of Mormon was well-written, there is really little left to discuss. CaptainHammer - 04/10/2011 07:24:27 AM 1411 Views
Woah nelly. Ghavrel - 04/10/2011 10:04:33 AM 1203 Views
I have to "Wow" as well... racist much? LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 01:52:48 PM 1127 Views
Re: I have to "Wow" as well... racist much? CaptainHammer - 04/10/2011 04:42:47 PM 1229 Views
oh well that makes it all better... LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 04:54:14 PM 1223 Views
Exactly ironclad - 04/10/2011 06:00:54 PM 1145 Views
Was the twin banging and the gay wedding the same event? Joel - 04/10/2011 06:36:03 PM 1211 Views
Yikes. Even for religion, that's more than a little crazy. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:47:56 PM 1209 Views
I don't think there's much of a difference in crazy as opposed to other more mainstream religions. Vivien - 04/10/2011 07:08:06 PM 1170 Views
A difference exists if only in continued unabashed affirmation of a rather distasteful doctrine. Joel - 04/10/2011 11:06:51 PM 1170 Views
Then why can't women be priests? Or enter the altar? The curse on Eve is very much in place. *NM* Aeryn - 05/10/2011 12:27:04 AM 631 Views
OK, within the Mormon context I can see that point. Joel - 05/10/2011 12:33:52 AM 1117 Views
They can in quite a few denominations. *NM* Ghavrel - 05/10/2011 06:12:35 AM 669 Views
Whoops! You meant in LDS specifically. My mistake. *NM* Ghavrel - 05/10/2011 06:14:05 AM 656 Views
Right now I am not making an absolute statement but a relative one. Vivien - 05/10/2011 08:37:50 PM 976 Views
Yes, that is kind of the problem. Joel - 06/10/2011 12:13:27 AM 1125 Views
Oh, you didn't know? Joe Smith said black people are cursed for following Satan. Tom - 05/10/2011 01:10:35 AM 1163 Views
I guess this is a variation on Hams punishment; Ghav, at least should know better than to be shocked Joel - 04/10/2011 04:13:59 PM 1105 Views
it's not that we're surprised because it's "novel" LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 04:19:16 PM 1144 Views
It is not NECESSARILY racist. Joel - 04/10/2011 04:39:33 PM 1188 Views
Sure, except ... Nate - 04/10/2011 04:50:53 PM 1196 Views
Well, the funny thing is Christian doctrine presupposes everyone, along with their ancestors... Joel - 04/10/2011 06:31:13 PM 1090 Views
Yeah, circular logic is fun, isn't it? Tom - 05/10/2011 01:09:25 AM 1120 Views
It it is nigh impossible to be a "non-Nicene Christian." Joel - 04/10/2011 03:12:06 PM 1212 Views
I think we've had this discussion before. Gher - 06/10/2011 05:54:39 PM 1212 Views
Arianism is a bad comparison for arguing LDS=Christian. Joel - 06/10/2011 11:45:36 PM 1104 Views
Wikipedia confirms what I already thought: you're off base with the monophysitism. Legolas - 07/10/2011 12:06:40 AM 1433 Views
I had not realized it was that late, but used it only as an example of multitudinous controversies. Joel - 07/10/2011 01:03:56 AM 1544 Views
Monophysites, miaphysites, monothelites, etc. certainly accept the consubstantiality of God/Christ Larry - 07/10/2011 11:58:05 AM 1135 Views
Virtually everyone has a more sound Christology than Mormons. Tom - 07/10/2011 06:45:45 PM 1164 Views
Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. Joel - 08/10/2011 05:30:38 PM 1182 Views
I can see that with the Monothelites (can see their appeal, in fact,) but not Monophysites. Joel - 07/10/2011 09:43:27 PM 1102 Views
Tempting as it is to prove Joel wrong (since he so frequently is), I need to take issue with this. Tom - 07/10/2011 06:59:13 PM 1172 Views
I was just saying there were competing views. Gher - 07/10/2011 07:49:26 PM 1567 Views
Oh, there were definitely competing views, just not competing Christian views. Joel - 07/10/2011 09:26:22 PM 1082 Views
That sounds really nice. Vivien - 04/10/2011 06:38:29 PM 1178 Views
Why wait though? Joel - 05/10/2011 12:12:21 AM 1331 Views
So that Vivien can avoid reading and thinking about the stuff that you just wrote. *NM* Aeryn - 05/10/2011 12:28:23 AM 605 Views
Ack, not reading and thinking111 Joel - 05/10/2011 12:36:11 AM 1142 Views
I really want an answer from a mormon. Vivien - 05/10/2011 08:48:49 PM 1179 Views
Good luck with that; just because I can see no explanation save that I offered does not preclude one Joel - 06/10/2011 07:03:50 AM 1076 Views
Yeah, that's what I thought. Gher - 06/10/2011 05:43:57 PM 1102 Views
I'm satisfied by that explanation. Vivien - 06/10/2011 08:51:15 PM 1346 Views
Re: I'm satisfied by that explanation. Gher - 07/10/2011 07:45:29 PM 1158 Views
Oh no you idn't... *waves finger and weaves head* everynametaken - 04/10/2011 03:53:07 AM 979 Views
....i don't know what you look like LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 03:54:56 AM 1101 Views
Shoot, my Mick Jagger strut is way better than my angry hispanic girl head/finger bob and weave. *NM* everynametaken - 05/10/2011 04:58:53 AM 729 Views
Took the words right out of my mouth, repeatedly. Joel - 04/10/2011 12:49:13 PM 1330 Views
Off-Topic Larry - 05/10/2011 01:14:16 AM 1088 Views
Hmm Tom - 05/10/2011 02:03:13 AM 1292 Views
True Larry - 05/10/2011 02:13:00 AM 1095 Views
I think of Protestantism in terms similar to a Xerox copy. Tom - 05/10/2011 04:57:42 AM 1195 Views
Maybe Xeroxes of abridged texts and dumbed down theology Larry - 06/10/2011 02:26:58 AM 1284 Views
I like that analogy - an echo chamber! *NM* Tom - 08/10/2011 10:44:04 PM 656 Views
Re: Off-Topic CaptainHammer - 05/10/2011 02:56:50 AM 1306 Views
Uhh... Larry - 05/10/2011 03:08:49 AM 1089 Views
The people at the Nicene Council and the other councils were not prophets. CaptainHammer - 05/10/2011 04:59:50 AM 1225 Views
And you know that because... why, again? Joel - 05/10/2011 07:13:53 AM 1164 Views
Tough Crowd. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 04:44:31 PM 1268 Views
No questions. Have a nice day. TaskmasterJack - 03/10/2011 11:40:58 PM 1111 Views
Why don't they have anything approaching a formal theology? *NM* Dan - 04/10/2011 03:58:16 AM 731 Views
Re: Why don't they have anything approaching a formal theology? CaptainHammer - 04/10/2011 05:23:12 PM 1230 Views
Danny is right, it is a pretty tough crowd, but better tough than weak and whitewashed. everynametaken - 04/10/2011 04:02:16 AM 1151 Views
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