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Yeah, that's what I thought. Gher Send a noteboard - 06/10/2011 05:43:57 PM


If we are baptized in this life, the ordinance is done. If we are not, it can be done for us by proxy.

This is one doctrine that has always seemed so logical to me, I never have quite understood the attention and debate it stirs. Christ came to save all men. What about all the people who have never even heard his name? There are still people today who do not know anything about Christ. They have not been baptized, but it's not because they rejected Christ. Are they just out of luck?

Instead, we believe that they can learn the gospel in the afterlife, and can accept it. We perform their baptism for them, and they can choose to accept it or not. But it means it is their choice, not something beyond their control because of circumstances.



I really like this part of your religion. Not that it would help me, but still. This is good.

But then- shouldn't this be an argument *against* missionaries? What if you fail to convince someone and that person rejects Christ in this life. It seems like you'd be able to be more convincing in the afterlife.


But a person must have a clear chance to accept it. There isn't any clear definition what that means, because it's different for every person. If the missionaries knock, and get a door slammed in their face, it likely doesn't mean the person's chance is up. They didn't know enough to reject it. So if the missionaries "fail to convince someone" like you said, it doesn't necessarily mean they're out of luck.

And though it does seem like it'd be impossible to not believe the gospel if you are actually in the afterlife, it will happen. Doesn't make much sense, but I don't think our mortal minds are that good at comprehending non-mortal existence.

And then, beside all that, living the gospel is the key to true joy. It's the difference of helping people find happiness now, as opposed to up to 100 years later on.

Not that it would help me, but still. This is good.


It might be a personal question, but why do you think this? I don't care what you've done. You're never too unworthy to pray to God. You can always be forgiven if you are sincere in asking. Please don't think you are beyond help.
"And it breaks my heart to look around, and see the unimpressed; who can't believe the emperor is dressed"~Fastball
2-7-1
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Mormons CaptainHammer - 03/10/2011 05:46:10 AM 2466 Views
Questions. Kuke - 03/10/2011 11:13:25 AM 1206 Views
Ooh! Ooh! Kuke - 03/10/2011 11:18:38 AM 1075 Views
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Re: Questions. CaptainHammer - 03/10/2011 01:28:28 PM 1186 Views
Re: Questions. CaptainHammer - 03/10/2011 01:31:13 PM 1015 Views
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Wyld Stallyns!! aerocontrols - 03/10/2011 03:26:54 PM 992 Views
STATION! *NM* Two Wongs - 03/10/2011 11:00:35 PM 593 Views
Re: One of the best replies, ever, on the internet. *NM* Gaps - 06/10/2011 02:43:07 AM 643 Views
....did we just get door-to-door'd...ONLINE?!?! *NM* LadyLorraine - 03/10/2011 11:34:19 AM 615 Views
Nope. Gher - 04/10/2011 01:32:43 AM 1057 Views
there's no real point to it LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 02:37:24 AM 2082 Views
We could use an evil cackling smilie, we do have some other evil ones Isaac - 04/10/2011 02:49:12 AM 1015 Views
wasn't going to argue... *NM* LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 02:57:00 AM 592 Views
Do you ever giggle at the name "Moroni?" Ghavrel - 03/10/2011 11:39:55 AM 1126 Views
There are Mormon literalists? Seriously? *NM* Legolas - 03/10/2011 03:02:18 PM 603 Views
In fairness, I wonder the same about Christian literalists. *NM* Ghavrel - 03/10/2011 07:57:19 PM 635 Views
Yeah, but if you're gonna believe absurdities... Legolas - 03/10/2011 09:02:32 PM 1113 Views
Are you trying to suggest that "Reformed" or some other brand of scientology is plausible? Joel - 04/10/2011 04:28:40 PM 1076 Views
Actually, no. It'd be like laughing at... Hosea. Or Nemeiah. It's just an old name. Gher - 04/10/2011 12:30:57 AM 1039 Views
I know they don't have multiple wives anymore, so no misconception there ironclad - 03/10/2011 01:23:50 PM 1039 Views
There are Fundamentalist "Mormons" who do... Danu - 03/10/2011 11:32:56 PM 964 Views
Don't get me wrong by the way, I've met wonderful Mormons ironclad - 04/10/2011 12:22:03 PM 1024 Views
Question: Why are you such a faggot? *NM* Urza - 03/10/2011 02:23:45 PM 509 Views
Answer: because it's the only way he could return your burning love for him. Nate - 03/10/2011 03:24:23 PM 731 Views
Oh dont be such a fuddy duddy. Urza - 03/10/2011 10:42:06 PM 655 Views
Better a faggot than a fuckwad. Cheers fuckwad! *NM* everynametaken - 04/10/2011 01:27:20 AM 630 Views
Well, I suppose you'ld be the one to know. *NM* Urza - 04/10/2011 01:54:35 AM 559 Views
Really? You really just pulled a "takes one to know one"? *NM* Kronin al'Sulc - 04/10/2011 04:19:22 PM 662 Views
Re: You embarrass yourself. *NM* Gaps - 04/10/2011 01:56:02 AM 514 Views
I'll tell you whats embarresing... Urza - 04/10/2011 02:08:02 AM 849 Views
That is hilarious. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:10:50 AM 732 Views
Goodness.. Urza - 04/10/2011 03:20:30 AM 664 Views
Re: Nate - 04/10/2011 03:28:25 AM 700 Views
You know, my mother had a saying. Urza - 04/10/2011 03:39:32 AM 742 Views
I think it's safe to say ... Nate - 04/10/2011 04:09:17 AM 638 Views
I'm not sure which would be sadder... Legolas - 04/10/2011 11:32:55 AM 776 Views
*NM* ironclad - 04/10/2011 12:19:01 PM 598 Views
Re: You flatter me. *NM* Gaps - 04/10/2011 01:31:01 PM 624 Views
OK, you need to delete the "Re:" You're using it incorrectly beetnemesis - 04/10/2011 01:55:53 PM 657 Views
"Re" doesn't have to mean "reply", it can also mean "regarding". Legolas - 04/10/2011 02:01:31 PM 680 Views
Re: Re: Gaps - 04/10/2011 02:06:58 PM 683 Views
Re: Re: Stephen - 04/10/2011 02:12:57 PM 651 Views
Re: Also. Gaps - 04/10/2011 02:08:15 PM 694 Views
you are still using it incorrectly. *NM* LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 02:09:48 PM 636 Views
He's doing it on purpose though. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:31:39 PM 764 Views
Re: Yeah, it's just a shtick... Gaps - 04/10/2011 03:47:17 PM 654 Views
Those were the good old days. Nate - 04/10/2011 04:02:33 PM 670 Views
*NM* TaskmasterJack - 04/10/2011 10:02:30 PM 577 Views
I agree, it's driving me nuts *NM* ironclad - 04/10/2011 02:36:45 PM 566 Views
That's not quite right, actually. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:25:54 PM 589 Views
Disagree. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 04/10/2011 10:04:09 PM 597 Views
Considering that "CaptainHammer" is LDS, I'd rather doubt he's gay. Great Lord of Chaos - 04/10/2011 02:32:56 AM 631 Views
Re: Considering that "CaptainHammer" is LDS, I'd rather doubt he's gay. Urza - 04/10/2011 02:37:41 AM 660 Views
Heh. Oh, Ryan. Kronin al'Sulc - 04/10/2011 04:36:43 PM 775 Views
*sigh* to all of you above.... LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 03:06:21 AM 674 Views
I thought that was "Do not talk about /b/"? *NM* Great Lord of Chaos - 04/10/2011 03:12:52 AM 656 Views
i don't know, but if THAT is the first rule... LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 03:41:20 AM 628 Views
Please explain why you think we should consider you Christians. Tom - 03/10/2011 04:33:06 PM 1202 Views
you know, that does make me wonder though LadyLorraine - 03/10/2011 04:58:21 PM 1096 Views
We're not as immovable as we are sometimes portrayed. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 05:27:17 PM 1077 Views
"Even Christ didn't do that"? I can't agree. Legolas - 03/10/2011 09:00:34 PM 1063 Views
I conceded your last point. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 10:14:28 PM 957 Views
Point of Anal Retentive Dissent: Joel - 04/10/2011 03:54:00 PM 979 Views
That concept is alien to the Christian theological understanding, however. Tom - 03/10/2011 10:18:55 PM 1072 Views
I understand what both you and Danny are saying LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 12:19:57 AM 1015 Views
Oh, that's very simple Tom - 04/10/2011 04:02:24 AM 1036 Views
I honestly don't know what it would take. Dannymac - 04/10/2011 07:41:55 AM 1033 Views
thank you, both of you LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 01:46:05 PM 1021 Views
I love the Nicene Creed. It is such an excellent encapsulation. Rebekah - 03/10/2011 06:07:53 PM 1109 Views
Agreed. Joel - 04/10/2011 04:44:49 PM 982 Views
The absolute best part about your post (plus the best thing about Mo's/LDS's) Jeordam - 03/10/2011 09:02:17 PM 1056 Views
Glad you enjoyed it Tom - 03/10/2011 10:10:39 PM 1142 Views
Though they can cause interesting changes in patterns. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 10:16:55 PM 1081 Views
We believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior of all mankind, and the only way back to God. Gher - 04/10/2011 01:29:30 AM 1131 Views
If you think the Book of Mormon was well-written, there is really little left to discuss. Tom - 04/10/2011 03:57:08 AM 1303 Views
I never said well-written, I said complex. Gher - 04/10/2011 07:04:24 AM 1183 Views
Ignore facts all you want to. Tom - 05/10/2011 01:07:35 AM 1074 Views
Re: If you think the Book of Mormon was well-written, there is really little left to discuss. CaptainHammer - 04/10/2011 07:24:27 AM 1275 Views
Woah nelly. Ghavrel - 04/10/2011 10:04:33 AM 1077 Views
I have to "Wow" as well... racist much? LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 01:52:48 PM 1005 Views
Re: I have to "Wow" as well... racist much? CaptainHammer - 04/10/2011 04:42:47 PM 1111 Views
oh well that makes it all better... LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 04:54:14 PM 1117 Views
Exactly ironclad - 04/10/2011 06:00:54 PM 1017 Views
Was the twin banging and the gay wedding the same event? Joel - 04/10/2011 06:36:03 PM 1100 Views
Yikes. Even for religion, that's more than a little crazy. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:47:56 PM 1094 Views
I don't think there's much of a difference in crazy as opposed to other more mainstream religions. Vivien - 04/10/2011 07:08:06 PM 1064 Views
A difference exists if only in continued unabashed affirmation of a rather distasteful doctrine. Joel - 04/10/2011 11:06:51 PM 1045 Views
Then why can't women be priests? Or enter the altar? The curse on Eve is very much in place. *NM* Aeryn - 05/10/2011 12:27:04 AM 570 Views
OK, within the Mormon context I can see that point. Joel - 05/10/2011 12:33:52 AM 997 Views
They can in quite a few denominations. *NM* Ghavrel - 05/10/2011 06:12:35 AM 624 Views
Whoops! You meant in LDS specifically. My mistake. *NM* Ghavrel - 05/10/2011 06:14:05 AM 585 Views
Right now I am not making an absolute statement but a relative one. Vivien - 05/10/2011 08:37:50 PM 845 Views
Yes, that is kind of the problem. Joel - 06/10/2011 12:13:27 AM 1017 Views
Oh, you didn't know? Joe Smith said black people are cursed for following Satan. Tom - 05/10/2011 01:10:35 AM 1041 Views
I guess this is a variation on Hams punishment; Ghav, at least should know better than to be shocked Joel - 04/10/2011 04:13:59 PM 983 Views
it's not that we're surprised because it's "novel" LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 04:19:16 PM 1023 Views
It is not NECESSARILY racist. Joel - 04/10/2011 04:39:33 PM 1047 Views
Sure, except ... Nate - 04/10/2011 04:50:53 PM 1076 Views
Well, the funny thing is Christian doctrine presupposes everyone, along with their ancestors... Joel - 04/10/2011 06:31:13 PM 967 Views
Yeah, circular logic is fun, isn't it? Tom - 05/10/2011 01:09:25 AM 999 Views
It it is nigh impossible to be a "non-Nicene Christian." Joel - 04/10/2011 03:12:06 PM 1083 Views
I think we've had this discussion before. Gher - 06/10/2011 05:54:39 PM 1074 Views
Arianism is a bad comparison for arguing LDS=Christian. Joel - 06/10/2011 11:45:36 PM 960 Views
Wikipedia confirms what I already thought: you're off base with the monophysitism. Legolas - 07/10/2011 12:06:40 AM 1314 Views
I had not realized it was that late, but used it only as an example of multitudinous controversies. Joel - 07/10/2011 01:03:56 AM 1409 Views
Monophysites, miaphysites, monothelites, etc. certainly accept the consubstantiality of God/Christ Larry - 07/10/2011 11:58:05 AM 1005 Views
Virtually everyone has a more sound Christology than Mormons. Tom - 07/10/2011 06:45:45 PM 1059 Views
Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. Joel - 08/10/2011 05:30:38 PM 1071 Views
I can see that with the Monothelites (can see their appeal, in fact,) but not Monophysites. Joel - 07/10/2011 09:43:27 PM 973 Views
Tempting as it is to prove Joel wrong (since he so frequently is), I need to take issue with this. Tom - 07/10/2011 06:59:13 PM 1053 Views
I was just saying there were competing views. Gher - 07/10/2011 07:49:26 PM 1441 Views
Oh, there were definitely competing views, just not competing Christian views. Joel - 07/10/2011 09:26:22 PM 954 Views
That sounds really nice. Vivien - 04/10/2011 06:38:29 PM 1033 Views
Why wait though? Joel - 05/10/2011 12:12:21 AM 1203 Views
So that Vivien can avoid reading and thinking about the stuff that you just wrote. *NM* Aeryn - 05/10/2011 12:28:23 AM 548 Views
Ack, not reading and thinking111 Joel - 05/10/2011 12:36:11 AM 1022 Views
I really want an answer from a mormon. Vivien - 05/10/2011 08:48:49 PM 1054 Views
Good luck with that; just because I can see no explanation save that I offered does not preclude one Joel - 06/10/2011 07:03:50 AM 963 Views
Yeah, that's what I thought. Gher - 06/10/2011 05:43:57 PM 961 Views
I'm satisfied by that explanation. Vivien - 06/10/2011 08:51:15 PM 1195 Views
Re: I'm satisfied by that explanation. Gher - 07/10/2011 07:45:29 PM 1039 Views
Oh no you idn't... *waves finger and weaves head* everynametaken - 04/10/2011 03:53:07 AM 866 Views
....i don't know what you look like LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 03:54:56 AM 997 Views
Shoot, my Mick Jagger strut is way better than my angry hispanic girl head/finger bob and weave. *NM* everynametaken - 05/10/2011 04:58:53 AM 685 Views
Took the words right out of my mouth, repeatedly. Joel - 04/10/2011 12:49:13 PM 1200 Views
Off-Topic Larry - 05/10/2011 01:14:16 AM 974 Views
Hmm Tom - 05/10/2011 02:03:13 AM 1162 Views
True Larry - 05/10/2011 02:13:00 AM 949 Views
I think of Protestantism in terms similar to a Xerox copy. Tom - 05/10/2011 04:57:42 AM 1066 Views
Maybe Xeroxes of abridged texts and dumbed down theology Larry - 06/10/2011 02:26:58 AM 1177 Views
I like that analogy - an echo chamber! *NM* Tom - 08/10/2011 10:44:04 PM 591 Views
Re: Off-Topic CaptainHammer - 05/10/2011 02:56:50 AM 1202 Views
Uhh... Larry - 05/10/2011 03:08:49 AM 992 Views
The people at the Nicene Council and the other councils were not prophets. CaptainHammer - 05/10/2011 04:59:50 AM 1107 Views
And you know that because... why, again? Joel - 05/10/2011 07:13:53 AM 1035 Views
Tough Crowd. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 04:44:31 PM 1147 Views
No questions. Have a nice day. TaskmasterJack - 03/10/2011 11:40:58 PM 997 Views
Why don't they have anything approaching a formal theology? *NM* Dan - 04/10/2011 03:58:16 AM 673 Views
Re: Why don't they have anything approaching a formal theology? CaptainHammer - 04/10/2011 05:23:12 PM 1108 Views
Danny is right, it is a pretty tough crowd, but better tough than weak and whitewashed. everynametaken - 04/10/2011 04:02:16 AM 1035 Views
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