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Re: I'm satisfied by that explanation. Gher Send a noteboard - 07/10/2011 07:45:29 PM
Those are really good answers. Both that telling someone now doesn't necessarily use up their chance, and that you want to tell them now because you want to and because you believe they will be happier and more fulfilled in this life as a result, regardless of the afterlife.

Oh Gosh it's not about what I've done and my worth. It's almost funny, that's almost exactly backwards. I was christian for a fairly decent period of time and I made a choice to turn away from Christ, as you'd say it. Not a decision made lightly or suddenly.

My behavior didn't change, it's not like a story from a teen bible study group where the lapsed christian uses drugs and risky behavior to fill the void in his/her soul. Couldn't be further from the truth. In fact, I've never ever tried any recreational drugs. I have drank alcohol but not much and not very often. I almost never drank in high school and rarely in college and now I'm probably in the heyday of my drinking days but realistically I have alcohol an average of once a month.

Hahaha, I just googled what else mormons don't allow and guess what- I would have no problem with a coffee ban because I don't drink it anyway. I'm also not gay so I'd have no problem with not being gay. I have had premarital sex but I mean, I'm 25- if I hadn't at this point it would certainly be my new year's resolution to fix that. Oh! Also- I almost never curse and I don't like it when I'm around people that do. If I feel comfortable and I want to spend more time with someone who curses a lot I'll ask him or her to try to curse less. [And I dislike it for many reasons- for one thing people don't realize you're angry or upset unless you curse but that's a whole other topic]

Not that I think any of the above define a person's "worth"! I've only addressed those points because that's what came up with google. The point is, it's not about anything I've done that makes me unworthy or scared. The point is I simply don't believe. I just cannot be sincere in praying to God or asking for forgiveness/help. If it's real- if there is an all powerful God out there- I don't love him with any part of my heart.

Numerous edits because I tried to fix the quote thing and then I thought of the cursing thing.


I'm sorry, my question was badly worded. I didn't mean to come off as so holier-than-though or condescending. It was just your use of the phrase, "Not that it would help me..." that got my attention. I've heard that a lot, people thinking they've done something terrible and don't "deserve" forgiveness, that's it's just not for them. That is never true.

And I'll just leave off by saying: If you want to believe, and want to be sincere, fake it for a while. Pretend like you believe. If you don't feel sincere when you pray, just try to be sincere. I think if you show the desire, it helps. And not because you find what you wanted to find.

Just my thoughts.
"And it breaks my heart to look around, and see the unimpressed; who can't believe the emperor is dressed"~Fastball
2-7-1
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Mormons CaptainHammer - 03/10/2011 05:46:10 AM 2652 Views
Questions. Kuke - 03/10/2011 11:13:25 AM 1388 Views
Ooh! Ooh! Kuke - 03/10/2011 11:18:38 AM 1236 Views
I don't watch it. Gher - 04/10/2011 01:34:53 AM 1279 Views
Re: Questions. CaptainHammer - 03/10/2011 01:28:28 PM 1349 Views
Re: Questions. CaptainHammer - 03/10/2011 01:31:13 PM 1181 Views
I don't understand why they would be called drinks, if they were not meant to be drunk. aerocontrols - 03/10/2011 03:28:48 PM 1263 Views
Why did I look up what Quorn is? I didn't need to know that. *NM* beetnemesis - 03/10/2011 02:04:20 PM 741 Views
Wyld Stallyns!! aerocontrols - 03/10/2011 03:26:54 PM 1134 Views
STATION! *NM* Two Wongs - 03/10/2011 11:00:35 PM 670 Views
Re: One of the best replies, ever, on the internet. *NM* Gaps - 06/10/2011 02:43:07 AM 721 Views
....did we just get door-to-door'd...ONLINE?!?! *NM* LadyLorraine - 03/10/2011 11:34:19 AM 687 Views
Nope. Gher - 04/10/2011 01:32:43 AM 1221 Views
there's no real point to it LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 02:37:24 AM 2244 Views
We could use an evil cackling smilie, we do have some other evil ones Isaac - 04/10/2011 02:49:12 AM 1188 Views
wasn't going to argue... *NM* LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 02:57:00 AM 682 Views
Do you ever giggle at the name "Moroni?" Ghavrel - 03/10/2011 11:39:55 AM 1303 Views
There are Mormon literalists? Seriously? *NM* Legolas - 03/10/2011 03:02:18 PM 678 Views
In fairness, I wonder the same about Christian literalists. *NM* Ghavrel - 03/10/2011 07:57:19 PM 746 Views
Yeah, but if you're gonna believe absurdities... Legolas - 03/10/2011 09:02:32 PM 1286 Views
Are you trying to suggest that "Reformed" or some other brand of scientology is plausible? Joel - 04/10/2011 04:28:40 PM 1235 Views
Actually, no. It'd be like laughing at... Hosea. Or Nemeiah. It's just an old name. Gher - 04/10/2011 12:30:57 AM 1191 Views
I know they don't have multiple wives anymore, so no misconception there ironclad - 03/10/2011 01:23:50 PM 1213 Views
There are Fundamentalist "Mormons" who do... Danu - 03/10/2011 11:32:56 PM 1105 Views
Don't get me wrong by the way, I've met wonderful Mormons ironclad - 04/10/2011 12:22:03 PM 1194 Views
Question: Why are you such a faggot? *NM* Urza - 03/10/2011 02:23:45 PM 586 Views
Answer: because it's the only way he could return your burning love for him. Nate - 03/10/2011 03:24:23 PM 812 Views
Oh dont be such a fuddy duddy. Urza - 03/10/2011 10:42:06 PM 805 Views
Better a faggot than a fuckwad. Cheers fuckwad! *NM* everynametaken - 04/10/2011 01:27:20 AM 702 Views
Well, I suppose you'ld be the one to know. *NM* Urza - 04/10/2011 01:54:35 AM 641 Views
Really? You really just pulled a "takes one to know one"? *NM* Kronin al'Sulc - 04/10/2011 04:19:22 PM 745 Views
Re: You embarrass yourself. *NM* Gaps - 04/10/2011 01:56:02 AM 594 Views
I'll tell you whats embarresing... Urza - 04/10/2011 02:08:02 AM 918 Views
That is hilarious. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:10:50 AM 814 Views
Goodness.. Urza - 04/10/2011 03:20:30 AM 757 Views
Re: Nate - 04/10/2011 03:28:25 AM 776 Views
You know, my mother had a saying. Urza - 04/10/2011 03:39:32 AM 819 Views
I think it's safe to say ... Nate - 04/10/2011 04:09:17 AM 725 Views
I'm not sure which would be sadder... Legolas - 04/10/2011 11:32:55 AM 855 Views
*NM* ironclad - 04/10/2011 12:19:01 PM 674 Views
Re: You flatter me. *NM* Gaps - 04/10/2011 01:31:01 PM 723 Views
OK, you need to delete the "Re:" You're using it incorrectly beetnemesis - 04/10/2011 01:55:53 PM 731 Views
"Re" doesn't have to mean "reply", it can also mean "regarding". Legolas - 04/10/2011 02:01:31 PM 744 Views
Re: Re: Gaps - 04/10/2011 02:06:58 PM 776 Views
Re: Re: Stephen - 04/10/2011 02:12:57 PM 732 Views
Re: Also. Gaps - 04/10/2011 02:08:15 PM 777 Views
you are still using it incorrectly. *NM* LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 02:09:48 PM 710 Views
He's doing it on purpose though. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:31:39 PM 842 Views
Re: Yeah, it's just a shtick... Gaps - 04/10/2011 03:47:17 PM 744 Views
Those were the good old days. Nate - 04/10/2011 04:02:33 PM 751 Views
*NM* TaskmasterJack - 04/10/2011 10:02:30 PM 656 Views
I agree, it's driving me nuts *NM* ironclad - 04/10/2011 02:36:45 PM 634 Views
That's not quite right, actually. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:25:54 PM 671 Views
Disagree. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 04/10/2011 10:04:09 PM 688 Views
Considering that "CaptainHammer" is LDS, I'd rather doubt he's gay. Great Lord of Chaos - 04/10/2011 02:32:56 AM 703 Views
Re: Considering that "CaptainHammer" is LDS, I'd rather doubt he's gay. Urza - 04/10/2011 02:37:41 AM 728 Views
Heh. Oh, Ryan. Kronin al'Sulc - 04/10/2011 04:36:43 PM 848 Views
*sigh* to all of you above.... LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 03:06:21 AM 756 Views
I thought that was "Do not talk about /b/"? *NM* Great Lord of Chaos - 04/10/2011 03:12:52 AM 745 Views
i don't know, but if THAT is the first rule... LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 03:41:20 AM 703 Views
Please explain why you think we should consider you Christians. Tom - 03/10/2011 04:33:06 PM 1371 Views
you know, that does make me wonder though LadyLorraine - 03/10/2011 04:58:21 PM 1253 Views
We're not as immovable as we are sometimes portrayed. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 05:27:17 PM 1217 Views
"Even Christ didn't do that"? I can't agree. Legolas - 03/10/2011 09:00:34 PM 1240 Views
I conceded your last point. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 10:14:28 PM 1096 Views
Point of Anal Retentive Dissent: Joel - 04/10/2011 03:54:00 PM 1157 Views
That concept is alien to the Christian theological understanding, however. Tom - 03/10/2011 10:18:55 PM 1241 Views
I understand what both you and Danny are saying LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 12:19:57 AM 1185 Views
Oh, that's very simple Tom - 04/10/2011 04:02:24 AM 1235 Views
I honestly don't know what it would take. Dannymac - 04/10/2011 07:41:55 AM 1181 Views
thank you, both of you LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 01:46:05 PM 1177 Views
I love the Nicene Creed. It is such an excellent encapsulation. Rebekah - 03/10/2011 06:07:53 PM 1276 Views
Agreed. Joel - 04/10/2011 04:44:49 PM 1139 Views
The absolute best part about your post (plus the best thing about Mo's/LDS's) Jeordam - 03/10/2011 09:02:17 PM 1210 Views
Glad you enjoyed it Tom - 03/10/2011 10:10:39 PM 1317 Views
Though they can cause interesting changes in patterns. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 10:16:55 PM 1273 Views
We believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior of all mankind, and the only way back to God. Gher - 04/10/2011 01:29:30 AM 1312 Views
If you think the Book of Mormon was well-written, there is really little left to discuss. Tom - 04/10/2011 03:57:08 AM 1472 Views
I never said well-written, I said complex. Gher - 04/10/2011 07:04:24 AM 1351 Views
Ignore facts all you want to. Tom - 05/10/2011 01:07:35 AM 1243 Views
Re: If you think the Book of Mormon was well-written, there is really little left to discuss. CaptainHammer - 04/10/2011 07:24:27 AM 1457 Views
Woah nelly. Ghavrel - 04/10/2011 10:04:33 AM 1251 Views
I have to "Wow" as well... racist much? LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 01:52:48 PM 1174 Views
Re: I have to "Wow" as well... racist much? CaptainHammer - 04/10/2011 04:42:47 PM 1267 Views
oh well that makes it all better... LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 04:54:14 PM 1268 Views
Exactly ironclad - 04/10/2011 06:00:54 PM 1192 Views
Was the twin banging and the gay wedding the same event? Joel - 04/10/2011 06:36:03 PM 1260 Views
Yikes. Even for religion, that's more than a little crazy. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:47:56 PM 1247 Views
I don't think there's much of a difference in crazy as opposed to other more mainstream religions. Vivien - 04/10/2011 07:08:06 PM 1216 Views
A difference exists if only in continued unabashed affirmation of a rather distasteful doctrine. Joel - 04/10/2011 11:06:51 PM 1207 Views
Then why can't women be priests? Or enter the altar? The curse on Eve is very much in place. *NM* Aeryn - 05/10/2011 12:27:04 AM 646 Views
OK, within the Mormon context I can see that point. Joel - 05/10/2011 12:33:52 AM 1153 Views
They can in quite a few denominations. *NM* Ghavrel - 05/10/2011 06:12:35 AM 686 Views
Whoops! You meant in LDS specifically. My mistake. *NM* Ghavrel - 05/10/2011 06:14:05 AM 679 Views
Right now I am not making an absolute statement but a relative one. Vivien - 05/10/2011 08:37:50 PM 1024 Views
Yes, that is kind of the problem. Joel - 06/10/2011 12:13:27 AM 1163 Views
Oh, you didn't know? Joe Smith said black people are cursed for following Satan. Tom - 05/10/2011 01:10:35 AM 1216 Views
I guess this is a variation on Hams punishment; Ghav, at least should know better than to be shocked Joel - 04/10/2011 04:13:59 PM 1150 Views
it's not that we're surprised because it's "novel" LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 04:19:16 PM 1194 Views
It is not NECESSARILY racist. Joel - 04/10/2011 04:39:33 PM 1232 Views
Sure, except ... Nate - 04/10/2011 04:50:53 PM 1244 Views
Well, the funny thing is Christian doctrine presupposes everyone, along with their ancestors... Joel - 04/10/2011 06:31:13 PM 1148 Views
Yeah, circular logic is fun, isn't it? Tom - 05/10/2011 01:09:25 AM 1172 Views
It it is nigh impossible to be a "non-Nicene Christian." Joel - 04/10/2011 03:12:06 PM 1266 Views
I think we've had this discussion before. Gher - 06/10/2011 05:54:39 PM 1256 Views
Arianism is a bad comparison for arguing LDS=Christian. Joel - 06/10/2011 11:45:36 PM 1147 Views
Wikipedia confirms what I already thought: you're off base with the monophysitism. Legolas - 07/10/2011 12:06:40 AM 1474 Views
I had not realized it was that late, but used it only as an example of multitudinous controversies. Joel - 07/10/2011 01:03:56 AM 1592 Views
Monophysites, miaphysites, monothelites, etc. certainly accept the consubstantiality of God/Christ Larry - 07/10/2011 11:58:05 AM 1179 Views
Virtually everyone has a more sound Christology than Mormons. Tom - 07/10/2011 06:45:45 PM 1205 Views
Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. Joel - 08/10/2011 05:30:38 PM 1217 Views
I can see that with the Monothelites (can see their appeal, in fact,) but not Monophysites. Joel - 07/10/2011 09:43:27 PM 1142 Views
Tempting as it is to prove Joel wrong (since he so frequently is), I need to take issue with this. Tom - 07/10/2011 06:59:13 PM 1225 Views
I was just saying there were competing views. Gher - 07/10/2011 07:49:26 PM 1611 Views
Oh, there were definitely competing views, just not competing Christian views. Joel - 07/10/2011 09:26:22 PM 1123 Views
That sounds really nice. Vivien - 04/10/2011 06:38:29 PM 1220 Views
Why wait though? Joel - 05/10/2011 12:12:21 AM 1380 Views
So that Vivien can avoid reading and thinking about the stuff that you just wrote. *NM* Aeryn - 05/10/2011 12:28:23 AM 621 Views
Ack, not reading and thinking111 Joel - 05/10/2011 12:36:11 AM 1183 Views
I really want an answer from a mormon. Vivien - 05/10/2011 08:48:49 PM 1228 Views
Good luck with that; just because I can see no explanation save that I offered does not preclude one Joel - 06/10/2011 07:03:50 AM 1111 Views
Yeah, that's what I thought. Gher - 06/10/2011 05:43:57 PM 1149 Views
I'm satisfied by that explanation. Vivien - 06/10/2011 08:51:15 PM 1392 Views
Re: I'm satisfied by that explanation. Gher - 07/10/2011 07:45:29 PM 1203 Views
Oh no you idn't... *waves finger and weaves head* everynametaken - 04/10/2011 03:53:07 AM 1025 Views
....i don't know what you look like LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 03:54:56 AM 1146 Views
Shoot, my Mick Jagger strut is way better than my angry hispanic girl head/finger bob and weave. *NM* everynametaken - 05/10/2011 04:58:53 AM 750 Views
Took the words right out of my mouth, repeatedly. Joel - 04/10/2011 12:49:13 PM 1373 Views
Off-Topic Larry - 05/10/2011 01:14:16 AM 1140 Views
Hmm Tom - 05/10/2011 02:03:13 AM 1335 Views
True Larry - 05/10/2011 02:13:00 AM 1133 Views
I think of Protestantism in terms similar to a Xerox copy. Tom - 05/10/2011 04:57:42 AM 1245 Views
Maybe Xeroxes of abridged texts and dumbed down theology Larry - 06/10/2011 02:26:58 AM 1319 Views
I like that analogy - an echo chamber! *NM* Tom - 08/10/2011 10:44:04 PM 676 Views
Re: Off-Topic CaptainHammer - 05/10/2011 02:56:50 AM 1358 Views
Uhh... Larry - 05/10/2011 03:08:49 AM 1118 Views
The people at the Nicene Council and the other councils were not prophets. CaptainHammer - 05/10/2011 04:59:50 AM 1267 Views
And you know that because... why, again? Joel - 05/10/2011 07:13:53 AM 1216 Views
Tough Crowd. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 04:44:31 PM 1302 Views
No questions. Have a nice day. TaskmasterJack - 03/10/2011 11:40:58 PM 1160 Views
Why don't they have anything approaching a formal theology? *NM* Dan - 04/10/2011 03:58:16 AM 747 Views
Re: Why don't they have anything approaching a formal theology? CaptainHammer - 04/10/2011 05:23:12 PM 1278 Views
Danny is right, it is a pretty tough crowd, but better tough than weak and whitewashed. everynametaken - 04/10/2011 04:02:16 AM 1196 Views
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