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I can see that with the Monothelites (can see their appeal, in fact,) but not Monophysites. Joel Send a noteboard - 07/10/2011 09:43:27 PM
Christians COMMONLY accepted most, if not all, of the Nicene Creed long before the Council of Nicaea. The Council was prompted by that commonly accepted beliefs growing erosion and muddling due to deliberate Gnostic and heretic assaults and a widespread vagueness and ignorance among NEW Christians only beginning to rigorously explore Christology. Thus the Church formally stated its Christology, clarifying what was indisputably Spirit breathed (e.g. the Gospel of John) and what was simply heresy (e.g. Monophysite denial of Christs humanity, Ebionite denial of His divinity, and Gnostic Trojan horses like the "Gospels" of Thomas and Judas.) The Councils of Nicaea and Ephesus brought order out of chaos by the Grace of God, but the idea Christianity had until then been an eclectic equivalent of Gnosticism that simply replaced "gnosis" with "Jesus" in not credible.

Monophysitism didn't even exist as a theology at the time of the Council of Nicaea, as far as I can tell from a quick look at the articles - it certainly didn't become a major controversy until the sixth century, two centuries after Nicaea. Nor is there any reason why monophysites should be considered to deviate from the Nicene Creed.

As it happens, that actually strengthens your case, though. The Copts, Ethiopian Christians and a few smaller groups have a theology that apparently is technically "miaphysite", but might as well be monophysite; this doesn't prevent them from adhering to the Nicene Creed.


Their issues arise from how the human/divine nature(s) of Christ are resolved and the hypostatic union certainly involved enough metaphysical hair splitting to cause those who held to "God from God, light from light, true God from true God" to question just how Christ is fully human and fully divine. It's why the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox consider the Oriental Orthodox to hold to a heretical idea rather than being a different religion, which is how they view Gnostics, Muslims, and yes, Mormons. In fact, Islam is considered by Catholics to have a more sound Christology than the Mormon faith because of the cosmology involved.

Can see that last part, too, but I will try to stay focused for once. Monophysitism seems to state pretty clearly that Christs human nature disappeared into His divine one, reducing the "was made man" part of the Nicene Creed to an entirely temporary condition: Christ WAS briefly human for the purpose of the Incarnation, but is not now human in any sense because His humanity was lost within his divinity.
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Mormons CaptainHammer - 03/10/2011 05:46:10 AM 2695 Views
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Re: Questions. CaptainHammer - 03/10/2011 01:31:13 PM 1230 Views
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Wyld Stallyns!! aerocontrols - 03/10/2011 03:26:54 PM 1173 Views
STATION! *NM* Two Wongs - 03/10/2011 11:00:35 PM 690 Views
Re: One of the best replies, ever, on the internet. *NM* Gaps - 06/10/2011 02:43:07 AM 738 Views
....did we just get door-to-door'd...ONLINE?!?! *NM* LadyLorraine - 03/10/2011 11:34:19 AM 709 Views
Nope. Gher - 04/10/2011 01:32:43 AM 1259 Views
there's no real point to it LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 02:37:24 AM 2283 Views
We could use an evil cackling smilie, we do have some other evil ones Isaac - 04/10/2011 02:49:12 AM 1230 Views
wasn't going to argue... *NM* LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 02:57:00 AM 702 Views
Do you ever giggle at the name "Moroni?" Ghavrel - 03/10/2011 11:39:55 AM 1342 Views
There are Mormon literalists? Seriously? *NM* Legolas - 03/10/2011 03:02:18 PM 700 Views
In fairness, I wonder the same about Christian literalists. *NM* Ghavrel - 03/10/2011 07:57:19 PM 767 Views
Yeah, but if you're gonna believe absurdities... Legolas - 03/10/2011 09:02:32 PM 1336 Views
Are you trying to suggest that "Reformed" or some other brand of scientology is plausible? Joel - 04/10/2011 04:28:40 PM 1276 Views
Actually, no. It'd be like laughing at... Hosea. Or Nemeiah. It's just an old name. Gher - 04/10/2011 12:30:57 AM 1226 Views
I know they don't have multiple wives anymore, so no misconception there ironclad - 03/10/2011 01:23:50 PM 1256 Views
There are Fundamentalist "Mormons" who do... Danu - 03/10/2011 11:32:56 PM 1151 Views
Don't get me wrong by the way, I've met wonderful Mormons ironclad - 04/10/2011 12:22:03 PM 1234 Views
Question: Why are you such a faggot? *NM* Urza - 03/10/2011 02:23:45 PM 609 Views
Answer: because it's the only way he could return your burning love for him. Nate - 03/10/2011 03:24:23 PM 832 Views
Oh dont be such a fuddy duddy. Urza - 03/10/2011 10:42:06 PM 826 Views
Better a faggot than a fuckwad. Cheers fuckwad! *NM* everynametaken - 04/10/2011 01:27:20 AM 724 Views
Well, I suppose you'ld be the one to know. *NM* Urza - 04/10/2011 01:54:35 AM 666 Views
Really? You really just pulled a "takes one to know one"? *NM* Kronin al'Sulc - 04/10/2011 04:19:22 PM 767 Views
Re: You embarrass yourself. *NM* Gaps - 04/10/2011 01:56:02 AM 615 Views
I'll tell you whats embarresing... Urza - 04/10/2011 02:08:02 AM 938 Views
That is hilarious. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:10:50 AM 833 Views
Goodness.. Urza - 04/10/2011 03:20:30 AM 778 Views
Re: Nate - 04/10/2011 03:28:25 AM 796 Views
You know, my mother had a saying. Urza - 04/10/2011 03:39:32 AM 839 Views
I think it's safe to say ... Nate - 04/10/2011 04:09:17 AM 743 Views
I'm not sure which would be sadder... Legolas - 04/10/2011 11:32:55 AM 879 Views
*NM* ironclad - 04/10/2011 12:19:01 PM 696 Views
Re: You flatter me. *NM* Gaps - 04/10/2011 01:31:01 PM 742 Views
OK, you need to delete the "Re:" You're using it incorrectly beetnemesis - 04/10/2011 01:55:53 PM 755 Views
"Re" doesn't have to mean "reply", it can also mean "regarding". Legolas - 04/10/2011 02:01:31 PM 768 Views
Re: Re: Gaps - 04/10/2011 02:06:58 PM 798 Views
Re: Re: Stephen - 04/10/2011 02:12:57 PM 754 Views
Re: Also. Gaps - 04/10/2011 02:08:15 PM 796 Views
you are still using it incorrectly. *NM* LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 02:09:48 PM 731 Views
He's doing it on purpose though. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:31:39 PM 867 Views
Re: Yeah, it's just a shtick... Gaps - 04/10/2011 03:47:17 PM 774 Views
Those were the good old days. Nate - 04/10/2011 04:02:33 PM 773 Views
*NM* TaskmasterJack - 04/10/2011 10:02:30 PM 677 Views
I agree, it's driving me nuts *NM* ironclad - 04/10/2011 02:36:45 PM 659 Views
That's not quite right, actually. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:25:54 PM 689 Views
Disagree. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 04/10/2011 10:04:09 PM 711 Views
Considering that "CaptainHammer" is LDS, I'd rather doubt he's gay. Great Lord of Chaos - 04/10/2011 02:32:56 AM 725 Views
Re: Considering that "CaptainHammer" is LDS, I'd rather doubt he's gay. Urza - 04/10/2011 02:37:41 AM 749 Views
Heh. Oh, Ryan. Kronin al'Sulc - 04/10/2011 04:36:43 PM 868 Views
*sigh* to all of you above.... LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 03:06:21 AM 776 Views
I thought that was "Do not talk about /b/"? *NM* Great Lord of Chaos - 04/10/2011 03:12:52 AM 768 Views
i don't know, but if THAT is the first rule... LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 03:41:20 AM 733 Views
Please explain why you think we should consider you Christians. Tom - 03/10/2011 04:33:06 PM 1420 Views
you know, that does make me wonder though LadyLorraine - 03/10/2011 04:58:21 PM 1293 Views
We're not as immovable as we are sometimes portrayed. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 05:27:17 PM 1267 Views
"Even Christ didn't do that"? I can't agree. Legolas - 03/10/2011 09:00:34 PM 1280 Views
I conceded your last point. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 10:14:28 PM 1135 Views
Point of Anal Retentive Dissent: Joel - 04/10/2011 03:54:00 PM 1199 Views
That concept is alien to the Christian theological understanding, however. Tom - 03/10/2011 10:18:55 PM 1281 Views
I understand what both you and Danny are saying LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 12:19:57 AM 1228 Views
Oh, that's very simple Tom - 04/10/2011 04:02:24 AM 1279 Views
I honestly don't know what it would take. Dannymac - 04/10/2011 07:41:55 AM 1222 Views
thank you, both of you LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 01:46:05 PM 1220 Views
I love the Nicene Creed. It is such an excellent encapsulation. Rebekah - 03/10/2011 06:07:53 PM 1310 Views
Agreed. Joel - 04/10/2011 04:44:49 PM 1184 Views
The absolute best part about your post (plus the best thing about Mo's/LDS's) Jeordam - 03/10/2011 09:02:17 PM 1251 Views
Glad you enjoyed it Tom - 03/10/2011 10:10:39 PM 1358 Views
Though they can cause interesting changes in patterns. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 10:16:55 PM 1314 Views
We believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior of all mankind, and the only way back to God. Gher - 04/10/2011 01:29:30 AM 1348 Views
If you think the Book of Mormon was well-written, there is really little left to discuss. Tom - 04/10/2011 03:57:08 AM 1522 Views
I never said well-written, I said complex. Gher - 04/10/2011 07:04:24 AM 1391 Views
Ignore facts all you want to. Tom - 05/10/2011 01:07:35 AM 1285 Views
Re: If you think the Book of Mormon was well-written, there is really little left to discuss. CaptainHammer - 04/10/2011 07:24:27 AM 1498 Views
Woah nelly. Ghavrel - 04/10/2011 10:04:33 AM 1310 Views
I have to "Wow" as well... racist much? LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 01:52:48 PM 1215 Views
Re: I have to "Wow" as well... racist much? CaptainHammer - 04/10/2011 04:42:47 PM 1308 Views
oh well that makes it all better... LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 04:54:14 PM 1313 Views
Exactly ironclad - 04/10/2011 06:00:54 PM 1232 Views
Was the twin banging and the gay wedding the same event? Joel - 04/10/2011 06:36:03 PM 1301 Views
Yikes. Even for religion, that's more than a little crazy. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:47:56 PM 1286 Views
I don't think there's much of a difference in crazy as opposed to other more mainstream religions. Vivien - 04/10/2011 07:08:06 PM 1256 Views
A difference exists if only in continued unabashed affirmation of a rather distasteful doctrine. Joel - 04/10/2011 11:06:51 PM 1249 Views
Then why can't women be priests? Or enter the altar? The curse on Eve is very much in place. *NM* Aeryn - 05/10/2011 12:27:04 AM 676 Views
OK, within the Mormon context I can see that point. Joel - 05/10/2011 12:33:52 AM 1195 Views
They can in quite a few denominations. *NM* Ghavrel - 05/10/2011 06:12:35 AM 709 Views
Whoops! You meant in LDS specifically. My mistake. *NM* Ghavrel - 05/10/2011 06:14:05 AM 702 Views
Right now I am not making an absolute statement but a relative one. Vivien - 05/10/2011 08:37:50 PM 1065 Views
Yes, that is kind of the problem. Joel - 06/10/2011 12:13:27 AM 1203 Views
Oh, you didn't know? Joe Smith said black people are cursed for following Satan. Tom - 05/10/2011 01:10:35 AM 1255 Views
I guess this is a variation on Hams punishment; Ghav, at least should know better than to be shocked Joel - 04/10/2011 04:13:59 PM 1191 Views
it's not that we're surprised because it's "novel" LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 04:19:16 PM 1231 Views
It is not NECESSARILY racist. Joel - 04/10/2011 04:39:33 PM 1272 Views
Sure, except ... Nate - 04/10/2011 04:50:53 PM 1289 Views
Well, the funny thing is Christian doctrine presupposes everyone, along with their ancestors... Joel - 04/10/2011 06:31:13 PM 1183 Views
Yeah, circular logic is fun, isn't it? Tom - 05/10/2011 01:09:25 AM 1225 Views
It it is nigh impossible to be a "non-Nicene Christian." Joel - 04/10/2011 03:12:06 PM 1326 Views
I think we've had this discussion before. Gher - 06/10/2011 05:54:39 PM 1296 Views
Arianism is a bad comparison for arguing LDS=Christian. Joel - 06/10/2011 11:45:36 PM 1192 Views
Wikipedia confirms what I already thought: you're off base with the monophysitism. Legolas - 07/10/2011 12:06:40 AM 1513 Views
I had not realized it was that late, but used it only as an example of multitudinous controversies. Joel - 07/10/2011 01:03:56 AM 1639 Views
Monophysites, miaphysites, monothelites, etc. certainly accept the consubstantiality of God/Christ Larry - 07/10/2011 11:58:05 AM 1226 Views
Virtually everyone has a more sound Christology than Mormons. Tom - 07/10/2011 06:45:45 PM 1242 Views
Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. Joel - 08/10/2011 05:30:38 PM 1252 Views
I can see that with the Monothelites (can see their appeal, in fact,) but not Monophysites. Joel - 07/10/2011 09:43:27 PM 1189 Views
Tempting as it is to prove Joel wrong (since he so frequently is), I need to take issue with this. Tom - 07/10/2011 06:59:13 PM 1265 Views
I was just saying there were competing views. Gher - 07/10/2011 07:49:26 PM 1651 Views
Oh, there were definitely competing views, just not competing Christian views. Joel - 07/10/2011 09:26:22 PM 1163 Views
That sounds really nice. Vivien - 04/10/2011 06:38:29 PM 1266 Views
Why wait though? Joel - 05/10/2011 12:12:21 AM 1426 Views
So that Vivien can avoid reading and thinking about the stuff that you just wrote. *NM* Aeryn - 05/10/2011 12:28:23 AM 642 Views
Ack, not reading and thinking111 Joel - 05/10/2011 12:36:11 AM 1228 Views
I really want an answer from a mormon. Vivien - 05/10/2011 08:48:49 PM 1272 Views
Good luck with that; just because I can see no explanation save that I offered does not preclude one Joel - 06/10/2011 07:03:50 AM 1149 Views
Yeah, that's what I thought. Gher - 06/10/2011 05:43:57 PM 1207 Views
I'm satisfied by that explanation. Vivien - 06/10/2011 08:51:15 PM 1434 Views
Re: I'm satisfied by that explanation. Gher - 07/10/2011 07:45:29 PM 1245 Views
Oh no you idn't... *waves finger and weaves head* everynametaken - 04/10/2011 03:53:07 AM 1060 Views
....i don't know what you look like LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 03:54:56 AM 1186 Views
Shoot, my Mick Jagger strut is way better than my angry hispanic girl head/finger bob and weave. *NM* everynametaken - 05/10/2011 04:58:53 AM 773 Views
Took the words right out of my mouth, repeatedly. Joel - 04/10/2011 12:49:13 PM 1418 Views
Off-Topic Larry - 05/10/2011 01:14:16 AM 1189 Views
Hmm Tom - 05/10/2011 02:03:13 AM 1374 Views
True Larry - 05/10/2011 02:13:00 AM 1170 Views
I think of Protestantism in terms similar to a Xerox copy. Tom - 05/10/2011 04:57:42 AM 1285 Views
Maybe Xeroxes of abridged texts and dumbed down theology Larry - 06/10/2011 02:26:58 AM 1368 Views
I like that analogy - an echo chamber! *NM* Tom - 08/10/2011 10:44:04 PM 698 Views
Re: Off-Topic CaptainHammer - 05/10/2011 02:56:50 AM 1397 Views
Uhh... Larry - 05/10/2011 03:08:49 AM 1155 Views
The people at the Nicene Council and the other councils were not prophets. CaptainHammer - 05/10/2011 04:59:50 AM 1305 Views
And you know that because... why, again? Joel - 05/10/2011 07:13:53 AM 1264 Views
Tough Crowd. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 04:44:31 PM 1345 Views
No questions. Have a nice day. TaskmasterJack - 03/10/2011 11:40:58 PM 1200 Views
Why don't they have anything approaching a formal theology? *NM* Dan - 04/10/2011 03:58:16 AM 768 Views
Re: Why don't they have anything approaching a formal theology? CaptainHammer - 04/10/2011 05:23:12 PM 1320 Views
Danny is right, it is a pretty tough crowd, but better tough than weak and whitewashed. everynametaken - 04/10/2011 04:02:16 AM 1240 Views
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