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What word do the Prophets use for Israels relationship to God? Joel Send a noteboard - 20/09/2012 12:38:20 AM
There's a clear difference. First, Jesus used the term "bridegroom" as an allegory, and the term "bridegroom" and "bride" are totally different in all the relevant languages from "husband" and "wife". In Coptic that would require using "šeleet" instead of "(s)hime" (the "s" appearing in some dialects, not in others).

They often used the same allegory, after all. I know there is a distinction between "bride" and "wife," but my point is the far more significant one between metaphor and literalism: If the newly found text speaks only metaphorically, whether the term is "bride" or "wife" changes little; neither gives legends of a literal wife any credibility.
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This message last edited by Joel on 20/09/2012 at 12:40:01 AM
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So, about this silly "Jesus' wife" story making the rounds... Tom - 19/09/2012 10:55:55 PM 1525 Views
That's right! Jesus' position on marriage was "One man, no woman." *NM* TaskmasterJack - 19/09/2012 11:05:55 PM 750 Views
What is the context? The canonical bible says Christ has a wife: The Church. Joel - 19/09/2012 11:25:19 PM 1145 Views
Oh please...don't confuse "wife" with "bride" Tom - 19/09/2012 11:35:09 PM 1110 Views
What word do the Prophets use for Israels relationship to God? Joel - 20/09/2012 12:38:20 AM 1099 Views
BRIDE Tom - 20/09/2012 03:39:30 PM 1071 Views
I love your last two sentences. They're a really nice description. *NM* Rebekah - 20/09/2012 07:58:19 PM 520 Views
That makes sense for an eternal God, but sounds like a wife who remains a bride. Joel - 20/09/2012 08:56:07 PM 1161 Views
It's "bride" in the Old Testament as well. Tom - 20/09/2012 09:48:37 PM 1124 Views
The distinction is important for preserving the newlywed condition, but not for this fragment. Joel - 20/09/2012 11:21:52 PM 1147 Views
No, the fragment is either Gnostic or a forgery. Tom - 20/09/2012 11:28:53 PM 1088 Views
Fair enough; for my money it could easily be both. Joel - 21/09/2012 12:10:57 AM 1022 Views
Two things why it is important Roland00 - 20/09/2012 04:24:37 AM 1062 Views
Did someone hit you over the head? "Two things why it is important"? Really? Tom - 20/09/2012 03:50:02 PM 1151 Views
Something I forgot to ask you about last night: What is your take on Daniels messianic prophecy? Joel - 20/09/2012 09:21:32 PM 1051 Views
I don't get that at all. "And will be no more", or "And will have nothing" is better. Tom - 20/09/2012 10:13:20 PM 1022 Views
It is the King James text, which I have never heard anyone call heretical. Joel - 20/09/2012 11:15:54 PM 1096 Views
The King James Bible is aesthetically pleasing but a bad translation. Tom - 21/09/2012 12:03:00 AM 1044 Views
I like the NKJV because it tries to include all ambiguities. Joel - 21/09/2012 12:47:38 AM 1113 Views
It says nothing about the Septuagint variant reading, though. Tom - 21/09/2012 03:35:51 AM 1058 Views
Hmm, you are right; uncharacteristically disappointing. Joel - 22/09/2012 12:16:51 AM 1137 Views
There is a very good reason no one dismissed the illegitmate gospels as illegitimate until 180 AD: Joel - 20/09/2012 09:15:05 PM 1020 Views
The Gospel of Thomas was written before 180 AD. Tom - 20/09/2012 09:33:44 PM 1030 Views
What is the oldest extant text of or reference to it? Joel - 20/09/2012 11:11:03 PM 1085 Views
The Oxyrhynchus fragments were dated to c. 200 AD, and they are copies Tom - 21/09/2012 12:18:33 AM 1054 Views
I would buy 200 AD, of course. Joel - 21/09/2012 12:58:32 AM 1074 Views
It's not about "buying" it - it's essentially proven at that point. Tom - 21/09/2012 03:26:50 AM 1065 Views
Yes; all I meant was that I never disputed a date around 200 AD. Joel - 22/09/2012 12:25:41 AM 1047 Views
I don't think any of the gospels were written by their purported authors. Tom - 22/09/2012 03:36:32 AM 981 Views
Not even Mark or Luke? Joel - 22/09/2012 01:21:24 PM 1060 Views
Well, but everyone knew Peter didn't speak Greek Tom - 22/09/2012 09:46:57 PM 980 Views
True, but everyone also knew Paul spoke it fluently, and he would have been an ideal choice. Joel - 24/09/2012 06:20:22 AM 1029 Views
Some people did "lie big". Tom - 24/09/2012 02:11:58 PM 1033 Views
I forgot about (or possibly repressed memories of) the Gnostics "Gospel" of Peter. Joel - 24/09/2012 11:26:43 PM 1141 Views
I'm not trying to defend Gnosticism doctrinally, but... Tom - 24/09/2012 11:51:40 PM 1085 Views
I am not relying SOLELY (or chiefly) on popularity though. Joel - 25/09/2012 02:21:01 AM 1087 Views
The Gnostic response would be: Tom - 25/09/2012 06:01:58 AM 986 Views
That just sounds like more conspiracy allegations based on desire rather than evidence. Joel - 25/09/2012 07:15:06 AM 1159 Views
The issue of evidence for Gnosticism would make this thread unnecessarily long. Tom - 25/09/2012 07:28:22 PM 993 Views
This thread seems an ideal place, but OK. Joel - 26/09/2012 04:34:28 AM 1110 Views
What about those who postulate a mid-to-late 1st century composition? Larry - 22/09/2012 02:21:18 AM 1088 Views
Elaine Pagels ceased to be an impartial academic a long time ago. Tom - 22/09/2012 03:41:41 AM 1051 Views
Suspected as much, but wanted to see if you thought so as well Larry - 22/09/2012 03:47:05 AM 1203 Views
Let's not get started on Funk Tom - 22/09/2012 09:48:05 PM 988 Views
So true Larry - 22/09/2012 10:23:08 PM 1080 Views
Bentley Layton at Yale is a noted scholar who did translations. Tom - 22/09/2012 10:47:05 PM 1015 Views
don't these people have anything better to do? Yunalesca - 20/09/2012 11:39:35 PM 1077 Views
Clearly not. Joel - 22/09/2012 12:27:29 AM 918 Views
then i'll escape this thread before anyone twigs Yunalesca - 22/09/2012 08:12:37 PM 1150 Views
Too late, I have already twigged, branched and treed. Joel - 22/09/2012 08:58:39 PM 1059 Views
I know! Camilla - 21/09/2012 06:48:33 AM 1293 Views
See, Tom, you made a mistake. jh - 22/09/2012 10:25:22 AM 1060 Views
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