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Yes; all I meant was that I never disputed a date around 200 AD. Joel Send a noteboard - 22/09/2012 12:25:41 AM
As I said, I am going to rely on the editorial staff of the official printing of the Nag Hammadi Corpus by Brill, rather than your assertions as to what one or two academics say based on a cursory reading of wikipedia. There will always be an academic willing to take any position, particularly if he can publish something based on it, so citing one academic is not really that persuasive.

Consensus puts Thomas in the early Second Century, and virtually no serious scholars put it after 150 AD.

Any Second Century date is vulnerable to the same criticisms: That the "Thomas' Gospel" could not have been written by Thomas, and could only have been written as a challenge to Christianity, as such, not a contemporary account of Christ some Pauline conspiracy later suppressed. The difference between a 150 and 180 date is trivial except to whether some authors of that era borrowed from the Thomas "Gospel" or vice versa. It is a purely archeological, not theological, debate, or should be.
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So, about this silly "Jesus' wife" story making the rounds... Tom - 19/09/2012 10:55:55 PM 1316 Views
That's right! Jesus' position on marriage was "One man, no woman." *NM* TaskmasterJack - 19/09/2012 11:05:55 PM 590 Views
What is the context? The canonical bible says Christ has a wife: The Church. Joel - 19/09/2012 11:25:19 PM 951 Views
Oh please...don't confuse "wife" with "bride" Tom - 19/09/2012 11:35:09 PM 924 Views
What word do the Prophets use for Israels relationship to God? Joel - 20/09/2012 12:38:20 AM 898 Views
BRIDE Tom - 20/09/2012 03:39:30 PM 885 Views
I love your last two sentences. They're a really nice description. *NM* Rebekah - 20/09/2012 07:58:19 PM 441 Views
That makes sense for an eternal God, but sounds like a wife who remains a bride. Joel - 20/09/2012 08:56:07 PM 955 Views
It's "bride" in the Old Testament as well. Tom - 20/09/2012 09:48:37 PM 898 Views
The distinction is important for preserving the newlywed condition, but not for this fragment. Joel - 20/09/2012 11:21:52 PM 935 Views
No, the fragment is either Gnostic or a forgery. Tom - 20/09/2012 11:28:53 PM 883 Views
Fair enough; for my money it could easily be both. Joel - 21/09/2012 12:10:57 AM 832 Views
Two things why it is important Roland00 - 20/09/2012 04:24:37 AM 875 Views
Did someone hit you over the head? "Two things why it is important"? Really? Tom - 20/09/2012 03:50:02 PM 964 Views
Something I forgot to ask you about last night: What is your take on Daniels messianic prophecy? Joel - 20/09/2012 09:21:32 PM 873 Views
I don't get that at all. "And will be no more", or "And will have nothing" is better. Tom - 20/09/2012 10:13:20 PM 831 Views
It is the King James text, which I have never heard anyone call heretical. Joel - 20/09/2012 11:15:54 PM 915 Views
The King James Bible is aesthetically pleasing but a bad translation. Tom - 21/09/2012 12:03:00 AM 847 Views
I like the NKJV because it tries to include all ambiguities. Joel - 21/09/2012 12:47:38 AM 919 Views
It says nothing about the Septuagint variant reading, though. Tom - 21/09/2012 03:35:51 AM 852 Views
Hmm, you are right; uncharacteristically disappointing. Joel - 22/09/2012 12:16:51 AM 929 Views
There is a very good reason no one dismissed the illegitmate gospels as illegitimate until 180 AD: Joel - 20/09/2012 09:15:05 PM 837 Views
The Gospel of Thomas was written before 180 AD. Tom - 20/09/2012 09:33:44 PM 828 Views
What is the oldest extant text of or reference to it? Joel - 20/09/2012 11:11:03 PM 905 Views
The Oxyrhynchus fragments were dated to c. 200 AD, and they are copies Tom - 21/09/2012 12:18:33 AM 823 Views
I would buy 200 AD, of course. Joel - 21/09/2012 12:58:32 AM 884 Views
It's not about "buying" it - it's essentially proven at that point. Tom - 21/09/2012 03:26:50 AM 857 Views
Yes; all I meant was that I never disputed a date around 200 AD. Joel - 22/09/2012 12:25:41 AM 875 Views
I don't think any of the gospels were written by their purported authors. Tom - 22/09/2012 03:36:32 AM 788 Views
Not even Mark or Luke? Joel - 22/09/2012 01:21:24 PM 835 Views
Well, but everyone knew Peter didn't speak Greek Tom - 22/09/2012 09:46:57 PM 774 Views
True, but everyone also knew Paul spoke it fluently, and he would have been an ideal choice. Joel - 24/09/2012 06:20:22 AM 837 Views
Some people did "lie big". Tom - 24/09/2012 02:11:58 PM 861 Views
I forgot about (or possibly repressed memories of) the Gnostics "Gospel" of Peter. Joel - 24/09/2012 11:26:43 PM 943 Views
I'm not trying to defend Gnosticism doctrinally, but... Tom - 24/09/2012 11:51:40 PM 902 Views
I am not relying SOLELY (or chiefly) on popularity though. Joel - 25/09/2012 02:21:01 AM 880 Views
The Gnostic response would be: Tom - 25/09/2012 06:01:58 AM 802 Views
That just sounds like more conspiracy allegations based on desire rather than evidence. Joel - 25/09/2012 07:15:06 AM 954 Views
The issue of evidence for Gnosticism would make this thread unnecessarily long. Tom - 25/09/2012 07:28:22 PM 791 Views
This thread seems an ideal place, but OK. Joel - 26/09/2012 04:34:28 AM 921 Views
What about those who postulate a mid-to-late 1st century composition? Larry - 22/09/2012 02:21:18 AM 900 Views
Elaine Pagels ceased to be an impartial academic a long time ago. Tom - 22/09/2012 03:41:41 AM 859 Views
Suspected as much, but wanted to see if you thought so as well Larry - 22/09/2012 03:47:05 AM 997 Views
Let's not get started on Funk Tom - 22/09/2012 09:48:05 PM 791 Views
So true Larry - 22/09/2012 10:23:08 PM 898 Views
Bentley Layton at Yale is a noted scholar who did translations. Tom - 22/09/2012 10:47:05 PM 829 Views
don't these people have anything better to do? Yunalesca - 20/09/2012 11:39:35 PM 833 Views
Clearly not. Joel - 22/09/2012 12:27:29 AM 735 Views
then i'll escape this thread before anyone twigs Yunalesca - 22/09/2012 08:12:37 PM 907 Views
Too late, I have already twigged, branched and treed. Joel - 22/09/2012 08:58:39 PM 879 Views
I know! Camilla - 21/09/2012 06:48:33 AM 1012 Views
See, Tom, you made a mistake. jh - 22/09/2012 10:25:22 AM 866 Views
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