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Yes; all I meant was that I never disputed a date around 200 AD. Joel Send a noteboard - 22/09/2012 12:25:41 AM
As I said, I am going to rely on the editorial staff of the official printing of the Nag Hammadi Corpus by Brill, rather than your assertions as to what one or two academics say based on a cursory reading of wikipedia. There will always be an academic willing to take any position, particularly if he can publish something based on it, so citing one academic is not really that persuasive.

Consensus puts Thomas in the early Second Century, and virtually no serious scholars put it after 150 AD.

Any Second Century date is vulnerable to the same criticisms: That the "Thomas' Gospel" could not have been written by Thomas, and could only have been written as a challenge to Christianity, as such, not a contemporary account of Christ some Pauline conspiracy later suppressed. The difference between a 150 and 180 date is trivial except to whether some authors of that era borrowed from the Thomas "Gospel" or vice versa. It is a purely archeological, not theological, debate, or should be.
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So, about this silly "Jesus' wife" story making the rounds... Tom - 19/09/2012 10:55:55 PM 1437 Views
That's right! Jesus' position on marriage was "One man, no woman." *NM* TaskmasterJack - 19/09/2012 11:05:55 PM 704 Views
What is the context? The canonical bible says Christ has a wife: The Church. Joel - 19/09/2012 11:25:19 PM 1067 Views
Oh please...don't confuse "wife" with "bride" Tom - 19/09/2012 11:35:09 PM 1033 Views
What word do the Prophets use for Israels relationship to God? Joel - 20/09/2012 12:38:20 AM 1012 Views
BRIDE Tom - 20/09/2012 03:39:30 PM 986 Views
I love your last two sentences. They're a really nice description. *NM* Rebekah - 20/09/2012 07:58:19 PM 486 Views
That makes sense for an eternal God, but sounds like a wife who remains a bride. Joel - 20/09/2012 08:56:07 PM 1080 Views
It's "bride" in the Old Testament as well. Tom - 20/09/2012 09:48:37 PM 1045 Views
The distinction is important for preserving the newlywed condition, but not for this fragment. Joel - 20/09/2012 11:21:52 PM 1051 Views
No, the fragment is either Gnostic or a forgery. Tom - 20/09/2012 11:28:53 PM 1010 Views
Fair enough; for my money it could easily be both. Joel - 21/09/2012 12:10:57 AM 941 Views
Two things why it is important Roland00 - 20/09/2012 04:24:37 AM 985 Views
Did someone hit you over the head? "Two things why it is important"? Really? Tom - 20/09/2012 03:50:02 PM 1078 Views
Something I forgot to ask you about last night: What is your take on Daniels messianic prophecy? Joel - 20/09/2012 09:21:32 PM 987 Views
I don't get that at all. "And will be no more", or "And will have nothing" is better. Tom - 20/09/2012 10:13:20 PM 940 Views
It is the King James text, which I have never heard anyone call heretical. Joel - 20/09/2012 11:15:54 PM 1020 Views
The King James Bible is aesthetically pleasing but a bad translation. Tom - 21/09/2012 12:03:00 AM 961 Views
I like the NKJV because it tries to include all ambiguities. Joel - 21/09/2012 12:47:38 AM 1032 Views
It says nothing about the Septuagint variant reading, though. Tom - 21/09/2012 03:35:51 AM 975 Views
Hmm, you are right; uncharacteristically disappointing. Joel - 22/09/2012 12:16:51 AM 1062 Views
There is a very good reason no one dismissed the illegitmate gospels as illegitimate until 180 AD: Joel - 20/09/2012 09:15:05 PM 942 Views
The Gospel of Thomas was written before 180 AD. Tom - 20/09/2012 09:33:44 PM 943 Views
What is the oldest extant text of or reference to it? Joel - 20/09/2012 11:11:03 PM 1020 Views
The Oxyrhynchus fragments were dated to c. 200 AD, and they are copies Tom - 21/09/2012 12:18:33 AM 974 Views
I would buy 200 AD, of course. Joel - 21/09/2012 12:58:32 AM 996 Views
It's not about "buying" it - it's essentially proven at that point. Tom - 21/09/2012 03:26:50 AM 989 Views
Yes; all I meant was that I never disputed a date around 200 AD. Joel - 22/09/2012 12:25:41 AM 973 Views
I don't think any of the gospels were written by their purported authors. Tom - 22/09/2012 03:36:32 AM 901 Views
Not even Mark or Luke? Joel - 22/09/2012 01:21:24 PM 977 Views
Well, but everyone knew Peter didn't speak Greek Tom - 22/09/2012 09:46:57 PM 895 Views
True, but everyone also knew Paul spoke it fluently, and he would have been an ideal choice. Joel - 24/09/2012 06:20:22 AM 950 Views
Some people did "lie big". Tom - 24/09/2012 02:11:58 PM 963 Views
I forgot about (or possibly repressed memories of) the Gnostics "Gospel" of Peter. Joel - 24/09/2012 11:26:43 PM 1070 Views
I'm not trying to defend Gnosticism doctrinally, but... Tom - 24/09/2012 11:51:40 PM 1007 Views
I am not relying SOLELY (or chiefly) on popularity though. Joel - 25/09/2012 02:21:01 AM 1009 Views
The Gnostic response would be: Tom - 25/09/2012 06:01:58 AM 912 Views
That just sounds like more conspiracy allegations based on desire rather than evidence. Joel - 25/09/2012 07:15:06 AM 1075 Views
The issue of evidence for Gnosticism would make this thread unnecessarily long. Tom - 25/09/2012 07:28:22 PM 914 Views
This thread seems an ideal place, but OK. Joel - 26/09/2012 04:34:28 AM 1032 Views
What about those who postulate a mid-to-late 1st century composition? Larry - 22/09/2012 02:21:18 AM 1005 Views
Elaine Pagels ceased to be an impartial academic a long time ago. Tom - 22/09/2012 03:41:41 AM 961 Views
Suspected as much, but wanted to see if you thought so as well Larry - 22/09/2012 03:47:05 AM 1115 Views
Let's not get started on Funk Tom - 22/09/2012 09:48:05 PM 908 Views
So true Larry - 22/09/2012 10:23:08 PM 997 Views
Bentley Layton at Yale is a noted scholar who did translations. Tom - 22/09/2012 10:47:05 PM 941 Views
don't these people have anything better to do? Yunalesca - 20/09/2012 11:39:35 PM 1002 Views
Clearly not. Joel - 22/09/2012 12:27:29 AM 847 Views
then i'll escape this thread before anyone twigs Yunalesca - 22/09/2012 08:12:37 PM 1078 Views
Too late, I have already twigged, branched and treed. Joel - 22/09/2012 08:58:39 PM 987 Views
I know! Camilla - 21/09/2012 06:48:33 AM 1210 Views
See, Tom, you made a mistake. jh - 22/09/2012 10:25:22 AM 977 Views
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