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No, it should not nossy Send a noteboard - 14/03/2010 12:33:56 AM
Going through the right channels displays maturity, but doesn't get you want you want automatically nor should it. We don't reward people for followings the rules. Nor do we change rules just because the person who asked did so in the proper fashion. The school did deal with it in the right way, they said 'no', she contacted the ACLU.

And I don't think they should they be surprised if they are making an oppressive stance (homosexuality issue, not clothing rules) and someone fights it.

I can write up an entirely legitimate and reasonable request, filed courteously through the proper chain, requesting I be allowed to wear a kilt to an event. That doesn't mean they should be required to say yes, if I then follow up with threat of legal action, I leave them little choice but to expend vast efforts and funds - funds paid for by the citizens - to fight the effort, win or lose, or to cave and permit me to wear a kilt. Personally, if faced with such an ultimatum, I would choose to cancel the whole affair as a matter of principle.

Well, that's not really the right way to look at it, the cancellation took place once the ACLU showed up and threatened them. When dealing with the ACLU, you know they will fight till the last breath, this left them 3 options

1) Fight it out... God alone knows how much money and effort they would spend while slugging it through the courts, win or lose, while drawing attention to themselves. This would be a horrible waste of money and demonize them in the yes of much of the country.

2) Surrender, let her wear the tux and attend arm in arm with her date. In doing this they anger much of the local population, who votes them into office and votes for school levies. It would make them look weak and invite disobedience by students and teachers. In all likelihood if they surrendered they would be replaced, possibly before the next election, by people with even more hard-line views.

3) Cancel the event. You can't fight, you can't surrender, so you deny combat. Ideally everything settles down and either the issue goes away or next year you cancel it again until the locals either say 'fine, go ahead and permit open gays' or students stop trying. It's not the cowardly approach, just the pragmatic one. Options 1 and 2 are lose-lose.


Some points here:
1) I think it depends whether we're talking about the clothing or the homosexuality issue. I can respect their rules on clothing laws, because different rules can be necessary for schools (than would be for society).

2) This problem has not gone away for them simply because they decided to cancel the prom.

3) If you are (if it can be proven - hence a properly run court case) oppressing someone, I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing that the fight doesn't just fade away because you cancel on your "principles." Even if the voters are not yet ready for this, it's clearly already an issue that won't simply disappear.

So again, the issue has not gone away because they avoided it on this level. There is now a fight to get the prom back on, so they are in an issue anyway. If you want to blame the girl, I suppose you have the right, but as I said to Amanda, I guess that just means I'm damn glad not to be gay. I really wouldn't like the type of life that meant I had to live with fewer options or have people say I deserved what I got for being disruptive to all the "normal" people.


Let's keep in mind they this is all about symbolic victories, the school board can't be seen to lose, the girl wants a symbolic victory. She could attend in a dress separately and meet her date there, dance, etc. The ACLU even reports that when they contacted the school it said district officials told McMillen she and her girlfriend wouldn't be allowed to arrive together, that she would not be allowed to wear a tuxedo, and that she and her girlfriend might be asked to leave if their presence made any other students "uncomfortable."

Now in diplo speak that's "Go ahead an show up, just don't walk in the door arm in arm, don't wear a tux, and don't display any levels of affection (which are probably alreayd against the rules) that will have to makes us take action"

So what is she and the ACLU fighting for? A symbolic victory that the schoolboard can not give her instead of a practical one that they appear to have offered.

I don't disagree about the concept of a symbolic victory. I thought about that as well. But honestly, if you read what you just wrote (and I usually HATE when people throw in this type of comment, but...), doesn't that feel a little "if you sit in the back of the bus, we'll let you ride" to you?

edit for embarrassing grammar/etc.
This message last edited by nossy on 14/03/2010 at 01:00:02 AM
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Mississippi High School cancels Prom after Lesbian Student Wanted to Bring a Girl as Her Date - 11/03/2010 11:56:10 PM 1900 Views
Seriously, wtf is wrong with the US? *NM* - 12/03/2010 12:08:32 AM 314 Views
Not ALL of the US. There were same-sex couples at my prom. *NM* - 12/03/2010 12:26:24 AM 357 Views
Yeah, don't worry, I know it's not like that everywhere. - 12/03/2010 09:15:43 AM 724 Views
This is the problem with liberals and their crusades like gay marriage. - 12/03/2010 12:50:12 AM 979 Views
Just a few things that I know you'll proabably disagree with. - 12/03/2010 02:03:32 AM 811 Views
Re: Just a few things that I know you'll proabably disagree with. - 12/03/2010 10:12:04 PM 815 Views
Ummmm.... no. - 12/03/2010 11:02:50 PM 828 Views
i totally agree 100% with what you're saying - 12/03/2010 02:33:55 AM 939 Views
What??? - 12/03/2010 02:53:13 AM 890 Views
Actually... - 12/03/2010 04:56:03 AM 905 Views
Oh, it is definitely self-defense. - 12/03/2010 05:52:50 AM 819 Views
That analogy is not apt. - 12/03/2010 06:10:27 AM 880 Views
Er... - 12/03/2010 06:45:05 AM 758 Views
I'm afraid that again that analogy is not apt. - 12/03/2010 01:39:19 PM 822 Views
... - 12/03/2010 02:05:54 PM 748 Views
I think you mean "I'm afraid that again that analogy is not apt." - 12/03/2010 02:45:23 PM 768 Views
That's right, I forgot to add that. - 12/03/2010 03:23:25 PM 819 Views
It's a rather key piece of any attempted analogy, wouldn't you say? - 12/03/2010 03:45:15 PM 713 Views
Again, you're right. - 12/03/2010 03:59:13 PM 686 Views
Yup. - 12/03/2010 04:02:26 PM 790 Views
Not really. Her point is that they should both be illegal. - 12/03/2010 07:01:47 PM 718 Views
Re: That analogy is not apt. - 12/03/2010 02:06:51 PM 772 Views
And when the school refused to change it's policy... - 12/03/2010 03:25:03 PM 711 Views
Absurd. - 12/03/2010 08:27:19 PM 791 Views
The rules were unjust. - 13/03/2010 05:09:59 AM 822 Views
Wow, talk about proving my point! - 12/03/2010 11:04:34 PM 926 Views
So hang on. - 13/03/2010 05:04:58 AM 810 Views
It's not that I'm surprised they disagree. It's that they're Wrong. - 12/03/2010 06:39:30 AM 787 Views
It is a great case of Selective Outrage, IMHO - 12/03/2010 03:10:01 AM 842 Views
Maybe. - 12/03/2010 06:34:42 AM 841 Views
"ACLU Defends Nazi's Right to Burn Down ACLU Headquarters" - 12/03/2010 12:31:14 PM 756 Views
Re: "ACLU Defends Nazi's Right to Burn Down ACLU Headquarters" - 12/03/2010 01:53:39 PM 791 Views
Re: "ACLU Defends Nazi's Right to Burn Down ACLU Headquarters" - 12/03/2010 03:04:43 PM 749 Views
As is often the case, there seems to be a fair amount of assumption going on here. - 12/03/2010 02:22:48 PM 742 Views
Just giving the benefit of the doubt... - 12/03/2010 02:57:23 PM 807 Views
Re: "Pursuing their ideology" - 12/03/2010 07:23:54 PM 777 Views
Re: "Pursuing their ideology" - 12/03/2010 08:17:25 PM 776 Views
That wasn't the impression I was under - 12/03/2010 11:23:08 PM 662 Views
Re: That wasn't the impression I was under - 13/03/2010 12:09:08 AM 818 Views
Pshhh there's a difference between "wear SOME clothes" and "wear a tux" - 15/03/2010 01:40:37 AM 708 Views
Your comments are inconsistent - 15/03/2010 02:09:43 AM 767 Views
I think you're optimistic about what her chances would've been - 12/03/2010 07:13:38 PM 766 Views
For the record... - 12/03/2010 06:48:25 AM 767 Views
Re: For the record... - 12/03/2010 01:04:33 PM 812 Views
Re: For the record... - 12/03/2010 07:08:06 PM 823 Views
Re: For the record... - 12/03/2010 08:08:42 PM 795 Views
Don't you think you're sensationalizing this just a bit? - 12/03/2010 05:42:21 AM 768 Views
Actually it is that reductionist - 12/03/2010 01:46:23 PM 766 Views
Re: Actually it is that reductionist - 12/03/2010 07:25:41 PM 849 Views
I have issues with both sides, I think - 12/03/2010 02:44:06 PM 731 Views
When I was in high school, my girlfriend and I formulated a petition so we'd be able to attend - 12/03/2010 07:55:33 PM 889 Views
Another thing I think people should remember - - 12/03/2010 07:59:43 PM 881 Views
One point though - 12/03/2010 08:40:32 PM 802 Views
Re: One point though - 12/03/2010 08:46:30 PM 869 Views
My point was that it was a hollow reassurance - 12/03/2010 09:35:46 PM 700 Views
yah, but honestly, is a tux really going to upset anyone that much? - 13/03/2010 04:50:08 PM 666 Views
Just because it wouldn't bother you doesn't mean it won't bother anyone else - 13/03/2010 06:38:03 PM 729 Views
It does - 13/03/2010 07:35:39 PM 716 Views
Re: It does - 13/03/2010 07:48:35 PM 657 Views
I typically agree with you - 13/03/2010 09:19:27 PM 772 Views
Following proper form shouldn't guarantee victory - 13/03/2010 10:17:27 PM 715 Views
yah, but at this point, how much of it is the girl? - 13/03/2010 10:24:57 PM 674 Views
Is she a child or an adult? IIRC she's 18 - 13/03/2010 11:33:39 PM 732 Views
No, it should not - 14/03/2010 12:33:56 AM 928 Views
Re: No, it should not - 14/03/2010 01:16:33 AM 842 Views
I understood that. You explained it well. *NM* - 14/03/2010 03:28:10 AM 331 Views
Re: Following proper form shouldn't guarantee victory - 15/03/2010 01:49:34 AM 769 Views
Re: Following proper form shouldn't guarantee victory - 15/03/2010 02:44:17 AM 652 Views
This is definitely true - 15/03/2010 04:27:43 AM 802 Views
Re: This is definitely true - 15/03/2010 05:18:11 AM 1043 Views
Re: It does - 13/03/2010 08:18:03 PM 753 Views
Re: It does - 13/03/2010 09:30:21 PM 672 Views
Re: It does - 13/03/2010 10:11:21 PM 873 Views
Re: It does - 14/03/2010 12:11:11 AM 767 Views
Re: It does - 14/03/2010 03:42:06 AM 803 Views
Re: It does - 14/03/2010 12:47:47 AM 817 Views
Re: It does - 14/03/2010 04:09:18 AM 785 Views
You make good points. *NM* - 15/03/2010 08:08:37 PM 301 Views
Ah, yes, "the rules." - 15/03/2010 01:47:31 AM 707 Views
Read my replies to Nossy and Ghavrel - 15/03/2010 05:01:29 AM 775 Views
Slippery slope arguments are stupid. - 14/03/2010 12:43:00 AM 654 Views
So is likening everythng back to the Civil Rights Movement - 14/03/2010 04:17:54 AM 810 Views
"Dress codes exists for a reason?" - 15/03/2010 01:43:36 AM 719 Views
They do - 15/03/2010 05:08:17 AM 835 Views
Damn. Poor liberals, all revved up with nothing to fight for. *NM* - 12/03/2010 10:16:12 PM 486 Views
So... they were ready to fight something bad, and nothing bad happened - 12/03/2010 11:30:02 PM 653 Views
Teenaged lesbians - 15/03/2010 06:55:12 AM 767 Views

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