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No, it should not nossy Send a noteboard - 14/03/2010 12:33:56 AM
Going through the right channels displays maturity, but doesn't get you want you want automatically nor should it. We don't reward people for followings the rules. Nor do we change rules just because the person who asked did so in the proper fashion. The school did deal with it in the right way, they said 'no', she contacted the ACLU.

And I don't think they should they be surprised if they are making an oppressive stance (homosexuality issue, not clothing rules) and someone fights it.

I can write up an entirely legitimate and reasonable request, filed courteously through the proper chain, requesting I be allowed to wear a kilt to an event. That doesn't mean they should be required to say yes, if I then follow up with threat of legal action, I leave them little choice but to expend vast efforts and funds - funds paid for by the citizens - to fight the effort, win or lose, or to cave and permit me to wear a kilt. Personally, if faced with such an ultimatum, I would choose to cancel the whole affair as a matter of principle.

Well, that's not really the right way to look at it, the cancellation took place once the ACLU showed up and threatened them. When dealing with the ACLU, you know they will fight till the last breath, this left them 3 options

1) Fight it out... God alone knows how much money and effort they would spend while slugging it through the courts, win or lose, while drawing attention to themselves. This would be a horrible waste of money and demonize them in the yes of much of the country.

2) Surrender, let her wear the tux and attend arm in arm with her date. In doing this they anger much of the local population, who votes them into office and votes for school levies. It would make them look weak and invite disobedience by students and teachers. In all likelihood if they surrendered they would be replaced, possibly before the next election, by people with even more hard-line views.

3) Cancel the event. You can't fight, you can't surrender, so you deny combat. Ideally everything settles down and either the issue goes away or next year you cancel it again until the locals either say 'fine, go ahead and permit open gays' or students stop trying. It's not the cowardly approach, just the pragmatic one. Options 1 and 2 are lose-lose.


Some points here:
1) I think it depends whether we're talking about the clothing or the homosexuality issue. I can respect their rules on clothing laws, because different rules can be necessary for schools (than would be for society).

2) This problem has not gone away for them simply because they decided to cancel the prom.

3) If you are (if it can be proven - hence a properly run court case) oppressing someone, I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing that the fight doesn't just fade away because you cancel on your "principles." Even if the voters are not yet ready for this, it's clearly already an issue that won't simply disappear.

So again, the issue has not gone away because they avoided it on this level. There is now a fight to get the prom back on, so they are in an issue anyway. If you want to blame the girl, I suppose you have the right, but as I said to Amanda, I guess that just means I'm damn glad not to be gay. I really wouldn't like the type of life that meant I had to live with fewer options or have people say I deserved what I got for being disruptive to all the "normal" people.


Let's keep in mind they this is all about symbolic victories, the school board can't be seen to lose, the girl wants a symbolic victory. She could attend in a dress separately and meet her date there, dance, etc. The ACLU even reports that when they contacted the school it said district officials told McMillen she and her girlfriend wouldn't be allowed to arrive together, that she would not be allowed to wear a tuxedo, and that she and her girlfriend might be asked to leave if their presence made any other students "uncomfortable."

Now in diplo speak that's "Go ahead an show up, just don't walk in the door arm in arm, don't wear a tux, and don't display any levels of affection (which are probably alreayd against the rules) that will have to makes us take action"

So what is she and the ACLU fighting for? A symbolic victory that the schoolboard can not give her instead of a practical one that they appear to have offered.

I don't disagree about the concept of a symbolic victory. I thought about that as well. But honestly, if you read what you just wrote (and I usually HATE when people throw in this type of comment, but...), doesn't that feel a little "if you sit in the back of the bus, we'll let you ride" to you?

edit for embarrassing grammar/etc.
This message last edited by nossy on 14/03/2010 at 01:00:02 AM
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Mississippi High School cancels Prom after Lesbian Student Wanted to Bring a Girl as Her Date - 11/03/2010 11:56:10 PM 1865 Views
Seriously, wtf is wrong with the US? *NM* - 12/03/2010 12:08:32 AM 299 Views
Not ALL of the US. There were same-sex couples at my prom. *NM* - 12/03/2010 12:26:24 AM 341 Views
Yeah, don't worry, I know it's not like that everywhere. - 12/03/2010 09:15:43 AM 696 Views
This is the problem with liberals and their crusades like gay marriage. - 12/03/2010 12:50:12 AM 945 Views
Just a few things that I know you'll proabably disagree with. - 12/03/2010 02:03:32 AM 778 Views
Re: Just a few things that I know you'll proabably disagree with. - 12/03/2010 10:12:04 PM 782 Views
Ummmm.... no. - 12/03/2010 11:02:50 PM 793 Views
i totally agree 100% with what you're saying - 12/03/2010 02:33:55 AM 900 Views
What??? - 12/03/2010 02:53:13 AM 862 Views
Actually... - 12/03/2010 04:56:03 AM 870 Views
Oh, it is definitely self-defense. - 12/03/2010 05:52:50 AM 786 Views
That analogy is not apt. - 12/03/2010 06:10:27 AM 848 Views
Er... - 12/03/2010 06:45:05 AM 722 Views
I'm afraid that again that analogy is not apt. - 12/03/2010 01:39:19 PM 789 Views
... - 12/03/2010 02:05:54 PM 718 Views
I think you mean "I'm afraid that again that analogy is not apt." - 12/03/2010 02:45:23 PM 730 Views
That's right, I forgot to add that. - 12/03/2010 03:23:25 PM 780 Views
It's a rather key piece of any attempted analogy, wouldn't you say? - 12/03/2010 03:45:15 PM 679 Views
Again, you're right. - 12/03/2010 03:59:13 PM 654 Views
Yup. - 12/03/2010 04:02:26 PM 756 Views
Not really. Her point is that they should both be illegal. - 12/03/2010 07:01:47 PM 688 Views
Re: That analogy is not apt. - 12/03/2010 02:06:51 PM 737 Views
And when the school refused to change it's policy... - 12/03/2010 03:25:03 PM 681 Views
Absurd. - 12/03/2010 08:27:19 PM 756 Views
The rules were unjust. - 13/03/2010 05:09:59 AM 794 Views
Wow, talk about proving my point! - 12/03/2010 11:04:34 PM 895 Views
So hang on. - 13/03/2010 05:04:58 AM 774 Views
It's not that I'm surprised they disagree. It's that they're Wrong. - 12/03/2010 06:39:30 AM 758 Views
It is a great case of Selective Outrage, IMHO - 12/03/2010 03:10:01 AM 806 Views
Maybe. - 12/03/2010 06:34:42 AM 802 Views
"ACLU Defends Nazi's Right to Burn Down ACLU Headquarters" - 12/03/2010 12:31:14 PM 722 Views
Re: "ACLU Defends Nazi's Right to Burn Down ACLU Headquarters" - 12/03/2010 01:53:39 PM 752 Views
Re: "ACLU Defends Nazi's Right to Burn Down ACLU Headquarters" - 12/03/2010 03:04:43 PM 710 Views
As is often the case, there seems to be a fair amount of assumption going on here. - 12/03/2010 02:22:48 PM 710 Views
Just giving the benefit of the doubt... - 12/03/2010 02:57:23 PM 772 Views
Re: "Pursuing their ideology" - 12/03/2010 07:23:54 PM 750 Views
Re: "Pursuing their ideology" - 12/03/2010 08:17:25 PM 740 Views
That wasn't the impression I was under - 12/03/2010 11:23:08 PM 627 Views
Re: That wasn't the impression I was under - 13/03/2010 12:09:08 AM 786 Views
Pshhh there's a difference between "wear SOME clothes" and "wear a tux" - 15/03/2010 01:40:37 AM 671 Views
Your comments are inconsistent - 15/03/2010 02:09:43 AM 730 Views
I think you're optimistic about what her chances would've been - 12/03/2010 07:13:38 PM 741 Views
For the record... - 12/03/2010 06:48:25 AM 729 Views
Re: For the record... - 12/03/2010 01:04:33 PM 770 Views
Re: For the record... - 12/03/2010 07:08:06 PM 791 Views
Re: For the record... - 12/03/2010 08:08:42 PM 760 Views
Don't you think you're sensationalizing this just a bit? - 12/03/2010 05:42:21 AM 729 Views
Actually it is that reductionist - 12/03/2010 01:46:23 PM 730 Views
Re: Actually it is that reductionist - 12/03/2010 07:25:41 PM 807 Views
I have issues with both sides, I think - 12/03/2010 02:44:06 PM 693 Views
When I was in high school, my girlfriend and I formulated a petition so we'd be able to attend - 12/03/2010 07:55:33 PM 850 Views
Another thing I think people should remember - - 12/03/2010 07:59:43 PM 847 Views
One point though - 12/03/2010 08:40:32 PM 770 Views
Re: One point though - 12/03/2010 08:46:30 PM 830 Views
My point was that it was a hollow reassurance - 12/03/2010 09:35:46 PM 663 Views
yah, but honestly, is a tux really going to upset anyone that much? - 13/03/2010 04:50:08 PM 632 Views
Just because it wouldn't bother you doesn't mean it won't bother anyone else - 13/03/2010 06:38:03 PM 697 Views
It does - 13/03/2010 07:35:39 PM 682 Views
Re: It does - 13/03/2010 07:48:35 PM 628 Views
I typically agree with you - 13/03/2010 09:19:27 PM 734 Views
Following proper form shouldn't guarantee victory - 13/03/2010 10:17:27 PM 676 Views
yah, but at this point, how much of it is the girl? - 13/03/2010 10:24:57 PM 642 Views
Is she a child or an adult? IIRC she's 18 - 13/03/2010 11:33:39 PM 698 Views
No, it should not - 14/03/2010 12:33:56 AM 900 Views
Re: No, it should not - 14/03/2010 01:16:33 AM 808 Views
I understood that. You explained it well. *NM* - 14/03/2010 03:28:10 AM 318 Views
Re: Following proper form shouldn't guarantee victory - 15/03/2010 01:49:34 AM 736 Views
Re: Following proper form shouldn't guarantee victory - 15/03/2010 02:44:17 AM 615 Views
This is definitely true - 15/03/2010 04:27:43 AM 766 Views
Re: This is definitely true - 15/03/2010 05:18:11 AM 1011 Views
Re: It does - 13/03/2010 08:18:03 PM 720 Views
Re: It does - 13/03/2010 09:30:21 PM 634 Views
Re: It does - 13/03/2010 10:11:21 PM 829 Views
Re: It does - 14/03/2010 12:11:11 AM 731 Views
Re: It does - 14/03/2010 03:42:06 AM 772 Views
Re: It does - 14/03/2010 12:47:47 AM 784 Views
Re: It does - 14/03/2010 04:09:18 AM 755 Views
You make good points. *NM* - 15/03/2010 08:08:37 PM 287 Views
Ah, yes, "the rules." - 15/03/2010 01:47:31 AM 664 Views
Read my replies to Nossy and Ghavrel - 15/03/2010 05:01:29 AM 739 Views
Slippery slope arguments are stupid. - 14/03/2010 12:43:00 AM 622 Views
So is likening everythng back to the Civil Rights Movement - 14/03/2010 04:17:54 AM 775 Views
"Dress codes exists for a reason?" - 15/03/2010 01:43:36 AM 679 Views
They do - 15/03/2010 05:08:17 AM 795 Views
Damn. Poor liberals, all revved up with nothing to fight for. *NM* - 12/03/2010 10:16:12 PM 470 Views
So... they were ready to fight something bad, and nothing bad happened - 12/03/2010 11:30:02 PM 620 Views
Teenaged lesbians - 15/03/2010 06:55:12 AM 739 Views

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