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Then why do you keep trying to qualify the passage in relation to him? Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 25/02/2011 06:29:31 PM
My statement was that aesthetic value is important. You shouldn't take "paint pretty pictures" literally - that should have been obvious. The beginning phrase of Lolita is obviously written well. If you think it isn't, then say it isn't and explain why. If you think it is, there's no need to further explain things.


You made the assertion, you need to support it. I do believe it is well written, but as you have claimed yourself, 'well written' comprises multiple aspects. You claimed that these passages had aesthetic value because they paint beautiful images. I do not understand how this - this specific quality to this specific passage - is so, hence my question. If you meant something else, please rephrase it. If you did mean it as such, can you explain why you believe it is so?

If you don't understand what I'm talking about generally, then you really need to read a book that is well written from cover to cover to understand. Just because you don't like my brief selection doesn't mean that there aren't examples of well-written books (from an aesthetic perspective) out there.

So please, quit with the faux-naive Socratic questioning.


My question was an honest question, and the fact that you are incapable of answering it says more about you than it does about me. Frankly, this conversation bores me. If you remain unable or unwilling to answer the simple question I have asked, do not expect further replies from me.
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
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Can someone explain to me how Jordan is not a particularly good writer? newyorkersedai - 21/02/2011 05:41:31 PM 3464 Views
I personally see it as more of RJ being a fantastic story teller, but not a well structured writer. darius_sedai - 21/02/2011 06:44:21 PM 1895 Views
Re: I personally see it as more of RJ being a fantastic story teller, but not a well structured Lo'oris - 22/02/2011 10:59:25 PM 1569 Views
What do you think about the Southern Gothic authors? Ghavrel - 23/02/2011 08:08:26 AM 1384 Views
Re: What do you think about the Southern Gothic authors? Lo'oris - 23/02/2011 10:51:57 AM 1468 Views
Oh, it really depends. Ghavrel - 23/02/2011 05:39:07 PM 1265 Views
thanks, I'll have a look *NM* Lo'oris - 23/02/2011 05:40:50 PM 941 Views
For the same reason that most people think they have above average intelligence. RabidWombat - 21/02/2011 11:13:34 PM 1888 Views
Thank you. Nargs - 21/02/2011 11:43:08 PM 1584 Views
Re: For the same reason that most people think they have above average intelligence. *NM* Gerbeaud - 22/02/2011 02:39:20 PM 1046 Views
Re: For the same reason that most people think they have above average intelligence. Gerbeaud - 22/02/2011 02:41:37 PM 1342 Views
Well Said! Evil_Monkey - 22/02/2011 02:42:22 PM 1589 Views
That's possibly the best explanation of literary criticism I've ever seen. The Count - 23/02/2011 02:47:12 AM 1445 Views
I can take a shot at that, since nobody else seems willing to. Ghavrel - 22/02/2011 07:29:20 AM 1942 Views
Do you enjoy reading Robert Jordan's ... Nargs - 22/02/2011 04:31:28 PM 1634 Views
Not particularly. Ghavrel - 22/02/2011 10:22:00 PM 1764 Views
Agreed. Tom - 22/02/2011 10:37:08 PM 1425 Views
Re: I can take a shot at that, since nobody else seems willing to. Lo'oris - 22/02/2011 11:23:38 PM 1594 Views
That has very little to do with anything unless you can provide a real-world analogy to a channeler. Ghavrel - 22/02/2011 11:30:52 PM 1451 Views
Re: That has very little to do with anything unless you can provide a real-world analogy to a Lo'oris - 23/02/2011 12:02:24 AM 1462 Views
As far as I'm concerned, the only way to gauge whether an author is good or not is ... Velveti - 22/02/2011 03:58:17 PM 1501 Views
Amen *NM* Nargs - 22/02/2011 04:32:50 PM 894 Views
Re: Can someone explain to me how Jordan is not a particularly good writer? DomA - 22/02/2011 06:27:11 PM 2378 Views
Brain overload! This is really well thought out. RabidWombat - 23/02/2011 10:22:37 PM 1542 Views
thank you for the insight into the outside view lol Onarishma - 24/02/2011 04:34:57 PM 1531 Views
I think it has more to do with limitations imposed by how the story was organized and edited. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 22/02/2011 07:50:18 PM 1783 Views
That's interesting, and I have a weird agree/disagree here; also, that Adam Roberts sucks newyorkersedai - 23/02/2011 02:15:12 AM 1556 Views
Re: That's interesting, and I have a weird agree/disagree here; also, that Adam Roberts sucks Lo'oris - 23/02/2011 11:02:14 AM 1509 Views
adam roberts reviews uglycat - 23/02/2011 03:53:49 AM 1586 Views
And I suspect those who prefer the BS books are those who largely read WoT for the story. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/02/2011 08:06:16 AM 902 Views
Oh GAWD!... not another pointer to Robert Adam's incoherant muckraking HyogaRott - 24/02/2011 07:47:35 PM 1405 Views
I think DomA answered the question best, but the "do you like it" argument is weak. Tom - 22/02/2011 10:32:51 PM 1806 Views
Re: I think DomA answered the question best, but the "do you like it" argument is weak. Lo'oris - 22/02/2011 11:16:24 PM 1710 Views
The Necronomicon isn't actually a book, you know. *NM* Ghavrel - 22/02/2011 11:28:29 PM 841 Views
There are nine, actually... Lo'oris - 23/02/2011 12:04:55 AM 1678 Views
Lovecraft's Necronomicon was fictitious. If you want to count fanfiction, fine. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/02/2011 12:38:07 AM 914 Views
Based on how poorly worded that response was, I'm not sure what to think of it. *NM* Tom - 23/02/2011 12:13:00 AM 922 Views
I hope I am misunderstanding you. Stephen - 23/02/2011 10:57:47 PM 1336 Views
Re: I hope I am misunderstanding you. Lo'oris - 24/02/2011 10:41:09 AM 1496 Views
If the core of the story is all that matters, why read a book Stephen - 24/02/2011 10:32:01 PM 1450 Views
Re: If the core of the story is all that matters, why read a book Lo'oris - 24/02/2011 11:23:42 PM 1394 Views
So wait, style is good? Stephen - 25/02/2011 12:32:07 AM 1701 Views
Re: So wait, style is good? Lo'oris - 25/02/2011 08:53:55 AM 1321 Views
I'm not trolling Stephen - 25/02/2011 11:57:18 PM 1346 Views
That depends... DomA - 23/02/2011 03:00:35 AM 1624 Views
I didn't say aesthetics was the primary criterion. I named three criteria. Tom - 23/02/2011 05:39:03 AM 1502 Views
the "do you like it" is the most important criterion RabidWombat - 23/02/2011 10:45:17 PM 1454 Views
Re: the "do you like it" is the most important criterion DomA - 24/02/2011 01:53:59 AM 1426 Views
Thumbs up - IMHO, all discussion can end here Nargs - 28/02/2011 05:45:34 PM 1559 Views
Not for quality of writing. Tom - 24/02/2011 05:17:52 PM 1428 Views
Those who can do, the rest are critics. *NM* HyogaRott - 24/02/2011 07:55:50 PM 923 Views
I object, sir! People don't read WoT for the way it's told? newyorkersedai - 24/02/2011 12:58:58 AM 1494 Views
If you don't mind me asking... Fanatic-Templar - 24/02/2011 01:05:12 AM 1358 Views
Re: If you don't mind me asking... DomA - 24/02/2011 02:19:17 AM 1361 Views
I still don't get it. Fanatic-Templar - 24/02/2011 08:27:50 AM 1318 Views
Re: If you don't mind me asking... Lo'oris - 24/02/2011 11:29:14 PM 1363 Views
I don't mind that you ask, but I'm not going to engage in a defense of literature. Tom - 24/02/2011 05:35:27 PM 1331 Views
Re: I don't mind that you ask, but I'm not going to engage in a defense of literature. Lo'oris - 24/02/2011 11:26:55 PM 1417 Views
I'm sure you have a wonderful job awaiting in fast food service. Tom - 25/02/2011 01:57:15 AM 1478 Views
Re: I'm sure you have a wonderful job awaiting in fast food service. Lo'oris - 25/02/2011 08:56:06 AM 1414 Views
Jack @$$ snobbery at its best. WOW *NM* Nargs - 28/02/2011 05:48:43 PM 909 Views
... Fanatic-Templar - 25/02/2011 01:07:22 AM 1315 Views
Maybe you should have used better prose? fionwe1987 - 25/02/2011 01:23:17 AM 1207 Views
It is not a serious question. Tom - 25/02/2011 01:53:59 AM 1419 Views
How so? fionwe1987 - 25/02/2011 02:59:05 AM 1509 Views
I have every right to use that tone. Tom - 25/02/2011 03:08:14 PM 1400 Views
Is that so? Fanatic-Templar - 25/02/2011 05:58:31 AM 1545 Views
I'm not fixated with Jordan. Tom - 25/02/2011 03:13:56 PM 1432 Views
Then why do you keep trying to qualify the passage in relation to him? Fanatic-Templar - 25/02/2011 06:29:31 PM 1463 Views
You're conflating two things. Tom - 25/02/2011 07:32:59 PM 1527 Views
All right, now we're getting somewhere. Fanatic-Templar - 26/02/2011 12:40:57 AM 1417 Views
you raise very good questions... *NM* Nargs - 26/02/2011 09:21:13 AM 847 Views
Okay, here you go. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt as to your sincerity. Tom - 26/02/2011 03:20:44 PM 1256 Views
Thank you, and I agree with all your explanations. *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 26/02/2011 07:28:09 PM 830 Views
Glad to hear that. Tom - 27/02/2011 03:42:33 AM 1327 Views
No problem, these things happen on the internet. *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 27/02/2011 04:36:57 AM 863 Views
No, it is a serious question, just one that can never be seriously answered. HyogaRott - 25/02/2011 03:28:48 PM 1427 Views
Your opinion isn't as valid as anyone else's if that's your opinion. Tom - 25/02/2011 04:44:57 PM 1560 Views
Re: Your opinion isn't as valid as anyone else's if that's your opinion. HyogaRott - 25/02/2011 06:05:18 PM 1906 Views
I'm not wasting my time proving something to an internet moron and troll like you. Tom - 25/02/2011 07:36:19 PM 1301 Views
Ah yes, the wonderful "dissmiss the person who disagrees with me by insulting him tactic" HyogaRott - 28/02/2011 02:30:35 PM 1305 Views
Re: Your opinion isn't as valid as anyone else's if that's your opinion. Lo'oris - 26/02/2011 11:06:26 AM 1295 Views
Jack @$$ snobbery at its best. WOW *NM* Nargs - 28/02/2011 05:51:48 PM 765 Views
double post. oh my! *NM* Nargs - 28/02/2011 05:52:17 PM 793 Views
Just makes you right twice *NM* HyogaRott - 28/02/2011 09:42:19 PM 912 Views
Re: ... Lo'oris - 25/02/2011 08:59:37 AM 1399 Views
And part 2, on the analysis of writing. newyorkersedai - 24/02/2011 01:16:20 AM 1456 Views
Florid desciption is usually not a good thing. Tom - 24/02/2011 05:30:30 PM 1355 Views
Re: I find this whole thing elitist and more than a bit silly GarethBryne - 23/02/2011 06:45:05 AM 1596 Views
Why do you think mind-expanding literature is restricted to the classics? Ghavrel - 23/02/2011 08:03:59 AM 1314 Views
Re: Why do you think mind-expanding literature is restricted to the classics? GarethBryne - 23/02/2011 09:25:10 AM 1506 Views
Of course people read for pleasure. Ghavrel - 23/02/2011 09:04:24 PM 1335 Views
Ok... Nargs - 24/02/2011 08:59:27 AM 1339 Views
"Yeah well, that's, like, just your opinion, man." Good argument. Ghavrel - 24/02/2011 03:43:24 PM 1455 Views
*NM* Tom - 24/02/2011 05:37:02 PM 814 Views
I find your above average tastes and intelligence uninspiring. Nargs - 24/02/2011 08:42:03 PM 1272 Views
I'm curious to hear who Tom and DomA consider a "very good writer"? VTHokie - 24/02/2011 05:49:13 PM 1445 Views
Among living writers? Tom - 24/02/2011 08:16:08 PM 1497 Views
No Rushdie? fionwe1987 - 24/02/2011 09:22:46 PM 1324 Views
I was considering mentioning Rushdie. Tom - 24/02/2011 09:32:20 PM 1319 Views
My list would be similar... DomA - 26/02/2011 07:24:11 AM 1603 Views
That was a very good list. Tom - 26/02/2011 03:07:31 PM 1511 Views
Re: That was a very good list. DomA - 27/02/2011 04:51:43 AM 1503 Views
Once I finish Hugo I'm probably going to read Druon. Tom - 27/02/2011 02:30:03 PM 1365 Views
Oh, and another question Tom - 27/02/2011 05:28:47 PM 1209 Views
Re: Oh, and another question DomA - 01/03/2011 03:42:02 AM 1462 Views
One final question, if you'll indulge me... Tom - 01/03/2011 06:43:23 PM 1262 Views
Well, until I have time to return to your previous post but... DomA - 01/03/2011 07:45:13 PM 1503 Views
I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great' Iain83 - 27/02/2011 11:14:30 AM 1641 Views
You like Solzhenitsyn but not other Russian writers? Tom - 27/02/2011 02:43:46 PM 1449 Views
Re: You like Solzhenitsyn but not other Russian writers? Iain83 - 02/03/2011 11:47:19 PM 1598 Views
Re: I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great' DomA - 28/02/2011 11:51:49 PM 1539 Views
Re: I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great' Iain83 - 03/03/2011 12:01:30 AM 1542 Views
Link to DomA Post from up above: Nargs - 03/03/2011 12:20:11 AM 1665 Views
Re: I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great' DomA - 03/03/2011 02:17:06 PM 1428 Views
He's a great storyteller, but his prose is somewhat uninspiring. *NM* Marshall - 27/02/2011 07:28:00 PM 938 Views
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