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Then why do you keep trying to qualify the passage in relation to him? Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 25/02/2011 06:29:31 PM
My statement was that aesthetic value is important. You shouldn't take "paint pretty pictures" literally - that should have been obvious. The beginning phrase of Lolita is obviously written well. If you think it isn't, then say it isn't and explain why. If you think it is, there's no need to further explain things.


You made the assertion, you need to support it. I do believe it is well written, but as you have claimed yourself, 'well written' comprises multiple aspects. You claimed that these passages had aesthetic value because they paint beautiful images. I do not understand how this - this specific quality to this specific passage - is so, hence my question. If you meant something else, please rephrase it. If you did mean it as such, can you explain why you believe it is so?

If you don't understand what I'm talking about generally, then you really need to read a book that is well written from cover to cover to understand. Just because you don't like my brief selection doesn't mean that there aren't examples of well-written books (from an aesthetic perspective) out there.

So please, quit with the faux-naive Socratic questioning.


My question was an honest question, and the fact that you are incapable of answering it says more about you than it does about me. Frankly, this conversation bores me. If you remain unable or unwilling to answer the simple question I have asked, do not expect further replies from me.
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter

Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
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Can someone explain to me how Jordan is not a particularly good writer? newyorkersedai - 21/02/2011 05:41:31 PM 3433 Views
I personally see it as more of RJ being a fantastic story teller, but not a well structured writer. darius_sedai - 21/02/2011 06:44:21 PM 1853 Views
Re: I personally see it as more of RJ being a fantastic story teller, but not a well structured Lo'oris - 22/02/2011 10:59:25 PM 1517 Views
What do you think about the Southern Gothic authors? Ghavrel - 23/02/2011 08:08:26 AM 1345 Views
Re: What do you think about the Southern Gothic authors? Lo'oris - 23/02/2011 10:51:57 AM 1426 Views
Oh, it really depends. Ghavrel - 23/02/2011 05:39:07 PM 1215 Views
thanks, I'll have a look *NM* Lo'oris - 23/02/2011 05:40:50 PM 909 Views
For the same reason that most people think they have above average intelligence. RabidWombat - 21/02/2011 11:13:34 PM 1847 Views
Thank you. Nargs - 21/02/2011 11:43:08 PM 1548 Views
Re: For the same reason that most people think they have above average intelligence. *NM* Gerbeaud - 22/02/2011 02:39:20 PM 1013 Views
Re: For the same reason that most people think they have above average intelligence. Gerbeaud - 22/02/2011 02:41:37 PM 1295 Views
Well Said! Evil_Monkey - 22/02/2011 02:42:22 PM 1511 Views
That's possibly the best explanation of literary criticism I've ever seen. The Count - 23/02/2011 02:47:12 AM 1411 Views
I can take a shot at that, since nobody else seems willing to. Ghavrel - 22/02/2011 07:29:20 AM 1896 Views
Do you enjoy reading Robert Jordan's ... Nargs - 22/02/2011 04:31:28 PM 1580 Views
Not particularly. Ghavrel - 22/02/2011 10:22:00 PM 1702 Views
Agreed. Tom - 22/02/2011 10:37:08 PM 1388 Views
Re: I can take a shot at that, since nobody else seems willing to. Lo'oris - 22/02/2011 11:23:38 PM 1540 Views
That has very little to do with anything unless you can provide a real-world analogy to a channeler. Ghavrel - 22/02/2011 11:30:52 PM 1409 Views
Re: That has very little to do with anything unless you can provide a real-world analogy to a Lo'oris - 23/02/2011 12:02:24 AM 1425 Views
As far as I'm concerned, the only way to gauge whether an author is good or not is ... Velveti - 22/02/2011 03:58:17 PM 1449 Views
Amen *NM* Nargs - 22/02/2011 04:32:50 PM 875 Views
Re: Can someone explain to me how Jordan is not a particularly good writer? DomA - 22/02/2011 06:27:11 PM 2315 Views
Brain overload! This is really well thought out. RabidWombat - 23/02/2011 10:22:37 PM 1486 Views
thank you for the insight into the outside view lol Onarishma - 24/02/2011 04:34:57 PM 1493 Views
I think it has more to do with limitations imposed by how the story was organized and edited. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 22/02/2011 07:50:18 PM 1754 Views
That's interesting, and I have a weird agree/disagree here; also, that Adam Roberts sucks newyorkersedai - 23/02/2011 02:15:12 AM 1516 Views
Re: That's interesting, and I have a weird agree/disagree here; also, that Adam Roberts sucks Lo'oris - 23/02/2011 11:02:14 AM 1472 Views
adam roberts reviews uglycat - 23/02/2011 03:53:49 AM 1537 Views
And I suspect those who prefer the BS books are those who largely read WoT for the story. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/02/2011 08:06:16 AM 868 Views
Oh GAWD!... not another pointer to Robert Adam's incoherant muckraking HyogaRott - 24/02/2011 07:47:35 PM 1356 Views
I think DomA answered the question best, but the "do you like it" argument is weak. Tom - 22/02/2011 10:32:51 PM 1744 Views
Re: I think DomA answered the question best, but the "do you like it" argument is weak. Lo'oris - 22/02/2011 11:16:24 PM 1656 Views
The Necronomicon isn't actually a book, you know. *NM* Ghavrel - 22/02/2011 11:28:29 PM 810 Views
There are nine, actually... Lo'oris - 23/02/2011 12:04:55 AM 1636 Views
Lovecraft's Necronomicon was fictitious. If you want to count fanfiction, fine. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/02/2011 12:38:07 AM 881 Views
Based on how poorly worded that response was, I'm not sure what to think of it. *NM* Tom - 23/02/2011 12:13:00 AM 889 Views
I hope I am misunderstanding you. Stephen - 23/02/2011 10:57:47 PM 1305 Views
Re: I hope I am misunderstanding you. Lo'oris - 24/02/2011 10:41:09 AM 1459 Views
If the core of the story is all that matters, why read a book Stephen - 24/02/2011 10:32:01 PM 1426 Views
Re: If the core of the story is all that matters, why read a book Lo'oris - 24/02/2011 11:23:42 PM 1332 Views
So wait, style is good? Stephen - 25/02/2011 12:32:07 AM 1660 Views
Re: So wait, style is good? Lo'oris - 25/02/2011 08:53:55 AM 1283 Views
I'm not trolling Stephen - 25/02/2011 11:57:18 PM 1301 Views
That depends... DomA - 23/02/2011 03:00:35 AM 1580 Views
I didn't say aesthetics was the primary criterion. I named three criteria. Tom - 23/02/2011 05:39:03 AM 1456 Views
the "do you like it" is the most important criterion RabidWombat - 23/02/2011 10:45:17 PM 1416 Views
Re: the "do you like it" is the most important criterion DomA - 24/02/2011 01:53:59 AM 1394 Views
Thumbs up - IMHO, all discussion can end here Nargs - 28/02/2011 05:45:34 PM 1522 Views
Not for quality of writing. Tom - 24/02/2011 05:17:52 PM 1378 Views
Those who can do, the rest are critics. *NM* HyogaRott - 24/02/2011 07:55:50 PM 887 Views
I object, sir! People don't read WoT for the way it's told? newyorkersedai - 24/02/2011 12:58:58 AM 1458 Views
If you don't mind me asking... Fanatic-Templar - 24/02/2011 01:05:12 AM 1295 Views
Re: If you don't mind me asking... DomA - 24/02/2011 02:19:17 AM 1327 Views
I still don't get it. Fanatic-Templar - 24/02/2011 08:27:50 AM 1259 Views
Re: If you don't mind me asking... Lo'oris - 24/02/2011 11:29:14 PM 1319 Views
I don't mind that you ask, but I'm not going to engage in a defense of literature. Tom - 24/02/2011 05:35:27 PM 1270 Views
Re: I don't mind that you ask, but I'm not going to engage in a defense of literature. Lo'oris - 24/02/2011 11:26:55 PM 1384 Views
I'm sure you have a wonderful job awaiting in fast food service. Tom - 25/02/2011 01:57:15 AM 1438 Views
Re: I'm sure you have a wonderful job awaiting in fast food service. Lo'oris - 25/02/2011 08:56:06 AM 1365 Views
Jack @$$ snobbery at its best. WOW *NM* Nargs - 28/02/2011 05:48:43 PM 883 Views
... Fanatic-Templar - 25/02/2011 01:07:22 AM 1275 Views
Maybe you should have used better prose? fionwe1987 - 25/02/2011 01:23:17 AM 1150 Views
It is not a serious question. Tom - 25/02/2011 01:53:59 AM 1352 Views
How so? fionwe1987 - 25/02/2011 02:59:05 AM 1447 Views
I have every right to use that tone. Tom - 25/02/2011 03:08:14 PM 1363 Views
Is that so? Fanatic-Templar - 25/02/2011 05:58:31 AM 1468 Views
I'm not fixated with Jordan. Tom - 25/02/2011 03:13:56 PM 1386 Views
Then why do you keep trying to qualify the passage in relation to him? Fanatic-Templar - 25/02/2011 06:29:31 PM 1424 Views
You're conflating two things. Tom - 25/02/2011 07:32:59 PM 1466 Views
All right, now we're getting somewhere. Fanatic-Templar - 26/02/2011 12:40:57 AM 1366 Views
you raise very good questions... *NM* Nargs - 26/02/2011 09:21:13 AM 816 Views
Okay, here you go. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt as to your sincerity. Tom - 26/02/2011 03:20:44 PM 1198 Views
Thank you, and I agree with all your explanations. *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 26/02/2011 07:28:09 PM 813 Views
Glad to hear that. Tom - 27/02/2011 03:42:33 AM 1273 Views
No problem, these things happen on the internet. *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 27/02/2011 04:36:57 AM 846 Views
No, it is a serious question, just one that can never be seriously answered. HyogaRott - 25/02/2011 03:28:48 PM 1363 Views
Your opinion isn't as valid as anyone else's if that's your opinion. Tom - 25/02/2011 04:44:57 PM 1498 Views
Re: Your opinion isn't as valid as anyone else's if that's your opinion. HyogaRott - 25/02/2011 06:05:18 PM 1865 Views
I'm not wasting my time proving something to an internet moron and troll like you. Tom - 25/02/2011 07:36:19 PM 1248 Views
Ah yes, the wonderful "dissmiss the person who disagrees with me by insulting him tactic" HyogaRott - 28/02/2011 02:30:35 PM 1253 Views
Re: Your opinion isn't as valid as anyone else's if that's your opinion. Lo'oris - 26/02/2011 11:06:26 AM 1260 Views
Jack @$$ snobbery at its best. WOW *NM* Nargs - 28/02/2011 05:51:48 PM 737 Views
double post. oh my! *NM* Nargs - 28/02/2011 05:52:17 PM 761 Views
Just makes you right twice *NM* HyogaRott - 28/02/2011 09:42:19 PM 883 Views
Re: ... Lo'oris - 25/02/2011 08:59:37 AM 1345 Views
And part 2, on the analysis of writing. newyorkersedai - 24/02/2011 01:16:20 AM 1390 Views
Florid desciption is usually not a good thing. Tom - 24/02/2011 05:30:30 PM 1315 Views
Re: I find this whole thing elitist and more than a bit silly GarethBryne - 23/02/2011 06:45:05 AM 1522 Views
Why do you think mind-expanding literature is restricted to the classics? Ghavrel - 23/02/2011 08:03:59 AM 1271 Views
Re: Why do you think mind-expanding literature is restricted to the classics? GarethBryne - 23/02/2011 09:25:10 AM 1474 Views
Of course people read for pleasure. Ghavrel - 23/02/2011 09:04:24 PM 1277 Views
Ok... Nargs - 24/02/2011 08:59:27 AM 1290 Views
"Yeah well, that's, like, just your opinion, man." Good argument. Ghavrel - 24/02/2011 03:43:24 PM 1403 Views
*NM* Tom - 24/02/2011 05:37:02 PM 777 Views
I find your above average tastes and intelligence uninspiring. Nargs - 24/02/2011 08:42:03 PM 1226 Views
I'm curious to hear who Tom and DomA consider a "very good writer"? VTHokie - 24/02/2011 05:49:13 PM 1389 Views
Among living writers? Tom - 24/02/2011 08:16:08 PM 1438 Views
No Rushdie? fionwe1987 - 24/02/2011 09:22:46 PM 1286 Views
I was considering mentioning Rushdie. Tom - 24/02/2011 09:32:20 PM 1261 Views
My list would be similar... DomA - 26/02/2011 07:24:11 AM 1554 Views
That was a very good list. Tom - 26/02/2011 03:07:31 PM 1443 Views
Re: That was a very good list. DomA - 27/02/2011 04:51:43 AM 1449 Views
Once I finish Hugo I'm probably going to read Druon. Tom - 27/02/2011 02:30:03 PM 1288 Views
Oh, and another question Tom - 27/02/2011 05:28:47 PM 1177 Views
Re: Oh, and another question DomA - 01/03/2011 03:42:02 AM 1405 Views
One final question, if you'll indulge me... Tom - 01/03/2011 06:43:23 PM 1219 Views
Well, until I have time to return to your previous post but... DomA - 01/03/2011 07:45:13 PM 1446 Views
I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great' Iain83 - 27/02/2011 11:14:30 AM 1598 Views
You like Solzhenitsyn but not other Russian writers? Tom - 27/02/2011 02:43:46 PM 1397 Views
Re: You like Solzhenitsyn but not other Russian writers? Iain83 - 02/03/2011 11:47:19 PM 1564 Views
Re: I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great' DomA - 28/02/2011 11:51:49 PM 1487 Views
Re: I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great' Iain83 - 03/03/2011 12:01:30 AM 1504 Views
Link to DomA Post from up above: Nargs - 03/03/2011 12:20:11 AM 1611 Views
Re: I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great' DomA - 03/03/2011 02:17:06 PM 1377 Views
He's a great storyteller, but his prose is somewhat uninspiring. *NM* Marshall - 27/02/2011 07:28:00 PM 902 Views
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