Active Users:384 Time:16/05/2024 10:29:21 PM
Re: This is like watching a train-wreck. DomA Send a noteboard - 29/10/2012 01:10:35 PM
The bell curve is not a hypothesis. It is fact. Your failure to understand this is at the root of your completely outdated strength list.


Brandon even told me at signing (well, rather the guy beside me who had asked him that) he'd seen the graphs RJ made in the notes...

RJ obviously used this as a tool to loosely distribute larger groups of characters.

There probably is an higher percentage of rarer strengths on both sides among WO and WF, simply because the ability is more common among them (they've not culled out the female gene pool among sparkers the way AS have done, and both group marry and have children).

For the rest, all evidence points to strength coming exclusively from the soul (what happened to Lanfear, discrediting the hypothesis it was a body issue ought to put that debate to rest. There's no oddity with Rand, nor with any of the transmigrated Forsaken who all have their exact old strength), so the bell curve would be very close to the AOL's, but in practice I'm guessing it would be very different as the percentage of women whose ability is found is incredibly low (tens of thousand aren't found in the Westlands alone), and the ability is less present in various groups because of culling. I suck at statistics, but my feeling is that the sample among AS at least is probably so small in comparison to Westlands women with the ability, that how the women get found is so random (relying massively on women deciding to go being tested... and they have such a small window of opportunity to make that decision...) there would be tons of aberrations, for e.g. for a few hundreds years, on a sample of only 1000 women, very few subjects with the rare strengths might show up at all.

How come women of Graendal's strength are so rare? Well, how many Graendal are there supposed to be anyway, in the current overall human population? A few hundreds, thousands, less?

We have no idea how big the SF population is, the Aiel are numerous. Those are the only two groups who find and train all their women, but both would have a lower percentage of channellers being born than in the AOL, as they cull male sparkers. In the Westlands it's worse thanks to AS culling out both male and female sparkers.

In Seanchan, they're also culling out male and female sparkers, and even more thoroughly than in the Westlands as all damane are found. The majority of their channelers, however, are never found (as channelers... they become sul'dam instead).

It would mean women in the rarer levels (high and low) would show and most of them are never found. Occasionally, a few of those would show up, like Talaan or the strongest WO.

Finally, there's a factor that is too overlooked: the Pattern.

It's rather obvious the White Tower has been "managed" by the Wheel. If its numbers have dwindled, and its average strength plummet, it's obviously in preparation for the LB. Souls have been kept in reserve for the LB era. It's no coincidence Siuan, Elaida, Aviendha, Elayne, Egwene, Nyaneve, Cadsuane, Moiraine all have the proper strengths to play their roles. The WT has lacked strong recruits for many hundreds years, and suddenly they return... tons of novices above average, some like Sharina from the very rare levels etc. The SF has some too, the Seanchan (like Alivia), the WO. All at the right time.

Let's not forget the Shadow once had 50% of all channellers and nearly won. It's no coincidence the current crop of channelers were extremely unattractive to the Shadow, if they had showed up and too early, Forsaken like Be'lal, Moghedien and Graendal would have snatched them up and train them as weapon, the Generals would have been more tempted to recruit and train, Ishamael would have put a lot more efforts into converting channelers to the Shadow. Etc. The whole "it's not worth it, too much work to train properly such women, not enough angreal to provide them decent strength" factors must have played out to an extent (instead of training them as fighters, Moridin used the BA as a political organ, not worrying overly about strength and training etc.).










This message last edited by DomA on 29/10/2012 at 01:53:37 PM
Reply to message
Ch2 : Pevara & Androl and channeling implications - 24/10/2012 06:40:47 PM 2693 Views
Did Perva actually initiate the link or was it Androl? *NM* - 24/10/2012 07:02:15 PM 654 Views
Androl did. *NM* - 25/10/2012 05:10:31 AM 905 Views
But didn't Nynaeve do it first at the cleansing? - 25/10/2012 12:43:15 PM 1015 Views
Pevara was thinking on very sketchy information. - 25/10/2012 08:56:20 PM 957 Views
did he start the link? or just take it? - 27/10/2012 07:33:49 AM 687 Views
I think it's slightly off - 28/10/2012 04:21:05 PM 981 Views
Re: Ch2 : Pevara & Androl and channeling implications - 25/10/2012 05:13:43 AM 1182 Views
Re: Ch2 : Pevara & Androl and channeling implications - 25/10/2012 04:23:20 PM 1021 Views
Re: Ch2 : Pevara & Androl and channeling implications - 25/10/2012 09:52:03 PM 1069 Views
Travelling - 25/10/2012 08:56:41 AM 1043 Views
Yes that's a pet theory of mine - 25/10/2012 04:21:53 PM 1040 Views
Re: Yes that's a pet theory of mine - 25/10/2012 06:12:21 PM 957 Views
Re: Yes that's a pet theory of mine - 25/10/2012 08:50:15 PM 906 Views
Re: Yes that's a pet theory of mine - 25/10/2012 09:45:26 PM 994 Views
Weren't there 150 or so at Maradon? *NM* - 26/10/2012 03:29:53 PM 578 Views
Re: Yes that's a pet theory of mine - 26/10/2012 08:49:58 PM 1090 Views
Perhaps, but if no on in the AoL could do it when mixed circles were common - 28/10/2012 04:22:20 PM 799 Views
How strong Pevara is... - 25/10/2012 07:08:26 PM 1113 Views
I'm pretty sure Moiraine is closer to 30... - 25/10/2012 07:41:37 PM 863 Views
Agreed - 25/10/2012 08:37:24 PM 945 Views
So... the old story of ignore the bell curve, eh? - 26/10/2012 01:40:49 AM 892 Views
No, I fully respect the bell curve - 26/10/2012 01:51:34 PM 946 Views
That was disproved long ago... - 26/10/2012 01:36:24 AM 901 Views
But Moiraine isn't 'exceptionally strong' - 26/10/2012 05:16:10 AM 952 Views
Not particularly strong evidence for that last. - 26/10/2012 05:36:54 AM 901 Views
But we know that it takes significantly more strength to maintain multiple weaves - 26/10/2012 08:14:58 AM 831 Views
Not true - 27/10/2012 09:15:51 PM 831 Views
Not accurate - 27/10/2012 09:31:05 PM 846 Views
The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 10:27:34 AM 898 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 11:40:04 AM 898 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 12:32:01 PM 792 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 12:48:51 PM 912 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 01:07:39 PM 880 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 01:18:32 PM 935 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 01:57:18 PM 990 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 28/10/2012 02:07:39 PM 691 Views
Yet Sharina, Nynaeve etc exist, thus the BC is the same - 27/10/2012 09:39:58 PM 928 Views
The curve is OBVIOUSLY the same... - 28/10/2012 01:50:37 AM 825 Views
Re: The curve is OBVIOUSLY the same... - 28/10/2012 02:01:59 PM 867 Views
You need to go read RJ's quotes: - 28/10/2012 02:41:49 PM 867 Views
Re: You need to go read RJ's quotes: - 28/10/2012 05:39:12 PM 787 Views
I need to come and save you from blatant fallacies being spouted by the loonies. - 28/10/2012 05:56:21 PM 770 Views
This is like watching a train-wreck. - 29/10/2012 02:58:51 AM 767 Views
Re: This is like watching a train-wreck. - 29/10/2012 01:10:35 PM 950 Views
So what's your conclusion? - 29/10/2012 02:14:33 PM 720 Views
His conclusion is that RJ was right about the books he wrote... - 29/10/2012 02:19:59 PM 860 Views
Pretty much... - 30/10/2012 12:57:41 AM 955 Views
Excellent points... - 29/10/2012 02:16:39 PM 727 Views
Re: Excellent points... - 29/10/2012 02:47:30 PM 830 Views
You seem confused. - 29/10/2012 03:22:47 PM 750 Views
Re: You seem confused. - 29/10/2012 03:41:48 PM 763 Views
I think the point is that the AS didn't go force every woman in the area - 29/10/2012 07:57:59 PM 744 Views
Re: You seem confused. - 29/10/2012 08:23:22 PM 869 Views
Re: You seem confused. - 29/10/2012 08:57:11 PM 862 Views
He drew graphs! - 30/10/2012 12:49:09 AM 759 Views
Re: He drew graphs! - 30/10/2012 07:43:54 AM 809 Views
Re: He drew graphs! - 30/10/2012 01:57:05 PM 785 Views
Re: Excellent points... - 30/10/2012 12:20:00 AM 791 Views
Re: Excellent points... - 30/10/2012 07:49:57 AM 819 Views
Re: Excellent points... - 30/10/2012 01:05:45 PM 1163 Views
Re: Excellent points... - 30/10/2012 01:25:11 PM 834 Views
Re: Excellent points... - 30/10/2012 12:20:17 AM 903 Views
AS recruiting is minimal - 28/10/2012 10:41:29 PM 826 Views
Re: You need to go read RJ's quotes: - 29/10/2012 02:23:27 AM 803 Views
Re: You need to go read RJ's quotes: - 29/10/2012 07:33:44 AM 772 Views
Huh? - 29/10/2012 02:26:27 PM 767 Views
Re: Huh? - 29/10/2012 02:42:07 PM 785 Views
You don't seem to know what random means... - 29/10/2012 03:25:57 PM 783 Views
Re: You don't seem to know what random means... - 29/10/2012 03:36:45 PM 818 Views
Personally I just think that 1000 women being allowed to tag along is a drop - 29/10/2012 08:05:33 PM 820 Views
Re: Personally I just think that 1000 women being allowed to tag along is a drop - 29/10/2012 09:04:02 PM 842 Views
Geography alone can do this - 30/10/2012 12:39:53 AM 791 Views
Re: Geography alone can do this - 30/10/2012 09:45:58 AM 775 Views
Not really - 30/10/2012 02:49:05 PM 737 Views
Here's why its not random... - 30/10/2012 01:04:18 AM 742 Views
Re: Here's why its not random... - 30/10/2012 09:42:35 AM 882 Views
Re: Here's why its not random... - 30/10/2012 01:51:03 PM 749 Views
Re: Here's why its not random... - 30/10/2012 02:21:04 PM 807 Views
YEah, there's no point debating this... - 30/10/2012 02:46:39 PM 761 Views
Genetics plays a role - 30/10/2012 03:03:41 PM 891 Views
Re: You don't seem to know what random means... - 29/10/2012 08:22:40 PM 746 Views
Re: You don't seem to know what random means... - 29/10/2012 09:06:08 PM 784 Views
Why must there be a mechanism? - 30/10/2012 01:06:29 AM 747 Views
Re: Why must there be a mechanism? - 30/10/2012 09:48:16 AM 699 Views
Nope... - 30/10/2012 01:43:56 PM 892 Views
Re: Nope... - 30/10/2012 02:34:51 PM 740 Views
Oh my... - 30/10/2012 02:50:12 PM 835 Views
Thought experment time! Hurrah! - 30/10/2012 03:27:01 PM 753 Views
But it is still possible in your example to get wildly varied results - 30/10/2012 03:30:59 PM 699 Views
Re: But it is still possible in your example to get wildly varied results - 30/10/2012 03:36:03 PM 789 Views
LOL - 30/10/2012 04:49:06 PM 1319 Views
Re: Yet Sharina, Nynaeve etc exist, thus the BC is the same - 28/10/2012 01:39:55 PM 767 Views
The point is there are still people being born in the highest strength categories - 28/10/2012 04:18:55 PM 796 Views
Re: The point is there are still people being born in the highest strength categories - 28/10/2012 05:21:44 PM 779 Views
The curve hasn't shifted! - 28/10/2012 05:39:42 PM 849 Views
The fact is, Moiraine is not half as strong as Lanfear, hence she is below average strength. - 28/10/2012 06:02:04 PM 793 Views
How is this fact? - 29/10/2012 02:59:49 AM 823 Views
Re: How is this fact? - 29/10/2012 07:04:15 PM 796 Views
Not so - 29/10/2012 08:09:29 PM 759 Views
Re: Not so - 29/10/2012 08:43:16 PM 846 Views
Sure it is - 30/10/2012 01:43:39 AM 722 Views
Explain Elza-Merise-Cadsuane then... - 29/10/2012 08:20:14 PM 758 Views
Re: Explain Elza-Merise-Cadsuane then... - 29/10/2012 08:38:11 PM 785 Views
Are you blind man? - 30/10/2012 01:12:26 AM 802 Views
Re: Are you blind man? - 30/10/2012 09:23:37 AM 827 Views
Cadsuane is just below Egwene... - 30/10/2012 01:37:54 PM 778 Views
Your strength scores don't square with the Pevara quote - 30/10/2012 03:15:22 PM 771 Views
Re: The curve hasn't shifted! - 28/10/2012 07:36:36 PM 773 Views
On Raw strength scores I think you are pretty inline with my thinking - 27/10/2012 09:37:25 PM 920 Views
And the facing a Foresaken comment is out of context anyway... - 28/10/2012 01:56:12 AM 904 Views
Excellent point on raw v. Effective strength *NM* - 28/10/2012 04:13:21 PM 570 Views

Reply to Message