Now yes, Rand does use balefire and we know its dangerous. Infact, perhaps that is the real reason for the horror that Min and Nynaeve feel. But really does that make sense either? How many people were in that palace? A hundred? Two? Lets go for broke and say Graendal had three hundred people in his palace. Now we know that Rand knows the damage balefire causes, he does not yet want to destroy the pattern at this point so we can assume that he regulated the amount of power used to only burn the people back as little as possible. Let's say 15 minutes.
Now you could argue that 15 minutes is too little since Rand used the Choedan Kal itself to do the job. However I would argue that the reason he had to use the CK was to erase the entire palace at once and not to burn the people back days or weeks. Remember that at this point Rand still wants to save the pattern so he would not do this.
Now you could argue that 15 minutes is too little since Rand used the Choedan Kal itself to do the job. However I would argue that the reason he had to use the CK was to erase the entire palace at once and not to burn the people back days or weeks. Remember that at this point Rand still wants to save the pattern so he would not do this.
I am unaware that it is possible to consciously adjust the potency of balefire. Not saying it's impossible, just asking for your source in this assertion. Thus far, everything we've seen leads us to believe that the amount of balefire used is proportional to its potency - and there was more balefire used in this one scene than in the entire rest of the series, combined.
If all it took to damage the pattern in a way that was in any way significant was to balefire 300 people back 15 minutes, then why has Moridin not done that? I mean he could just travel to some obscure village or town and start blasting away. Given how strong we know Moridin is, he could easily balefire 300 people. Heck, there are a lot of villages so if Moridin wanted he could probably balefire more than 300 people easily. In a few weeks he could probably balefire 3000. Or more! And each one more than 15 minutes. And these would be people who would actually be alive and sentient. With more active threads than the drones in Graendals palace.
This assumption is based on what you believe Moridin's plans are, but as we do not know exactly what those are, it's pretty much unfounded from the get-go. I mean, ask yourself, which of these possibilities is a more reasonable explanation for Moridin not balefiring entire populations?
1- Contrary to all evidence provided in the series and by Word of God (by Robert Jordan himself), balefire is actually harmless to the Pattern. After all, it can't be a question of quantity - Moridin wouldn't limit himself to a few hundred victims. If the unraveling of the Pattern through the use of balefire was Moridin's desire and dependent on a quantity of victims, Moridin would find that quantity of people and balefire them. therefore, contrary to Robert Jordan's opinion, balefire is completely and absolutely harmless to the Pattern.
2- Moridin's plans cannot come about through the destruction of the Pattern through balefire.
It seems to me than that when we take the fact that Moridin does not do this together with other facts such as Rands comment that he has seen many thousands burned from the pattern together with the fact that apparently during the War of power, balefire was used on entire cities, it seems to me that erasing 300 drones who probably had very little influence on anything, and one forsaken, would do very little real damage to the pattern. To have a significant effect would probably require tens of thousands of people balefired or Moridin would constantly be out there secretly balefiring people as fast as he could.
Finally, you assume that the destruction of the Pattern through balefire would happen through number of victims in an incident of balefire use. But we have no reason to believe this is how it happens. Really, the only was to know how would be for it to happen, and then there would be nobody to know.
There are innumerable possibilities other than that. Just as a way of examples, it could be a strict number of victims, but an absolute number, and every victim of balefire counts toward that number, therefore even a single victim of balefire brings the world distinctly closer to oblivion.
Or it could be a percentage - Say, one victim gives it a 0,01% chance of the Pattern unraveling, and a city would be a 20% chance. That still means that the Pattern could unravel from the balefire of just one person - say, Rahvin in The Fires of Heaven just as much as it could from an entire city.
And there are other possibilities too.
So I can't agree with you, simply because I don't accept your assumptions as true.
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter
Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
~Master Splinter
Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
Rand the psycho?
- 06/01/2010 02:53:30 AM
1740 Views
I cannot follow your assumptions.
- 06/01/2010 04:07:33 AM
1151 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions.
- 06/01/2010 04:59:12 AM
970 Views
Wait!
- 06/01/2010 05:10:33 AM
1071 Views
Re: Wait!
- 06/01/2010 05:20:02 AM
977 Views
Re: Wait!
- 06/01/2010 05:58:00 AM
967 Views
Re: Wait!
- 06/01/2010 11:46:13 AM
928 Views
I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 06/01/2010 07:30:56 AM
1031 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 06/01/2010 03:32:24 PM
933 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 06/01/2010 09:52:47 PM
1032 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 06/01/2010 11:19:56 PM
949 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 07/01/2010 12:21:50 AM
1006 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 07/01/2010 12:56:26 AM
950 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 07/01/2010 01:46:16 AM
1002 Views
Of course, I agree with you, esp since I just put forth the idea you support earlier in the thread.
- 11/01/2010 04:58:26 PM
1438 Views
Rand crossed a line
- 06/01/2010 02:36:42 PM
1036 Views
Doesn't Balefire remove your thread from the Pattern permanently?
- 06/01/2010 02:55:38 PM
1015 Views
No, RJ stated balefired people can be reborn. *NM*
- 06/01/2010 03:26:00 PM
497 Views
But not in this turning of the Wheel. So they'd miss out on MANY lifetimes.
- 06/01/2010 05:46:04 PM
945 Views
No, balefire just kills you backwards in time. It is not super-death. *NM*
- 06/01/2010 09:58:18 PM
511 Views
LOL ... super-death!
- 06/01/2010 11:59:31 PM
887 Views
Yes it was.
- 06/01/2010 06:51:15 PM
1014 Views
Re: Yes it was.
- 06/01/2010 07:16:14 PM
964 Views
Re: Yes it was.
- 06/01/2010 08:58:40 PM
959 Views
Re: Yes it was.
- 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM
967 Views
let me ask the question in a different way
- 06/01/2010 11:26:43 PM
968 Views
Re: let me ask the question in a different way
- 06/01/2010 11:40:56 PM
945 Views
actually that quote supports my thoughts
- 06/01/2010 11:50:40 PM
1016 Views
Re: actually that quote supports my thoughts
- 07/01/2010 12:10:07 AM
899 Views
yet it could take him some undetermined amount of time to figure out your dead?
- 07/01/2010 12:34:34 AM
906 Views
Re: yet it could take him some undetermined amount of time to figure out your dead?
- 07/01/2010 01:13:40 AM
875 Views
Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take.
- 07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM
1014 Views
Sigh. What mass murder?
- 07/01/2010 12:15:01 AM
848 Views
In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 03:14:32 PM
922 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 03:57:43 PM
947 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 07:13:21 PM
952 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 07:52:24 PM
881 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 08:56:43 PM
971 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 09:26:01 PM
917 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 09:30:45 PM
851 Views
Personally I'm kind of sick of Rand being the only person killing FS!
- 07/01/2010 09:42:57 PM
1015 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM
968 Views
OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol:
- 07/01/2010 10:30:19 PM
972 Views
Yes. Anakin Skywalker all over again
- 06/01/2010 11:01:02 PM
1040 Views
Meh
- 06/01/2010 11:30:24 PM
882 Views
The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them!
- 06/01/2010 11:33:32 PM
879 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them!
- 06/01/2010 11:50:37 PM
967 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them!
- 06/01/2010 11:55:03 PM
942 Views
I do have to guiltily say, though, that if Rand had balefired the Seanchan and THEN became good...
- 07/01/2010 12:03:20 AM
937 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them!
- 07/01/2010 12:23:11 AM
866 Views
I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing
- 07/01/2010 12:52:25 AM
899 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing
- 07/01/2010 01:24:32 AM
951 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing
- 07/01/2010 03:33:52 PM
884 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing
- 07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM
1034 Views
right cause all Generals are so well versed in medical conditions 
- 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM
1005 Views
- 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM
1005 Views
Nice way to avoid the argument.
- 07/01/2010 10:00:17 PM
941 Views
I'm just done talking in circles. You seem to think that because people
- 07/01/2010 11:53:05 PM
968 Views
I concede
- 07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM
869 Views
You weren't wrong overall, but there were some serious flaws in your reasoning.
- 07/01/2010 02:43:17 AM
1004 Views
Morals are subjective anyhow,
- 07/01/2010 06:23:09 AM
955 Views
Re: Morals are subjective anyhow,
- 07/01/2010 03:23:59 PM
887 Views
I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention
- 09/01/2010 12:00:02 AM
956 Views
You are treating Graendal's "pets" as though they were enemy combatants
- 07/01/2010 03:40:03 PM
1015 Views
Like I give a damn what a group of professional killers would do.
- 08/01/2010 11:39:11 PM
875 Views
Graendal captured these people as part of the Shadows offensive, Operation Chaos Rules
- 09/01/2010 12:00:40 AM
1180 Views
Well, I still liked your first argument. It's a freaking war. The argument ...
- 07/01/2010 07:08:53 PM
926 Views