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I concede Datakim Send a noteboard - 07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM
Well. I was reading the book trying to come up with another argument for Fanatic-Templar, and I just realised something. I think I totally messed everything up here.

My original idea was based on two fronts.

1. Rand was right that the people that Graendal had compulsed were so braindead that for all intents and purposes they were not alive at all and the only one truly alive there was Graendal. The rest were zombies. I think that this still has merit.

2. LTT/Rand was still sane enough at the point the balefiring happened that he would have been carefull to use a minimum amount of force. If there was a chance to destroy the pattern, he would not have done it. And also that having LTT memories would mean that he would know exactly how much damage the pattern could take, better than anyone. So essentially no balefire atrocity.

However, upon re-reading the book, I just realised that the balefire incident happened a lot later in the books than I thought it did. I thought it happened relatively early, before Rand started agreeing with LTT that death was preferable. It did not. It happened very near the end.

This causes the floor to drop entirely from my argument. There is no reason to assume that the totally suicidal Rand that he already is at this point would be especially carefull with Balefire. He is more Moridin than TwoRivers!Rand already.

So I admit, I was probably wrong about the whole balefire thing and that those who argued with me about that are right and that it was indeed a crazy atrocity.

Damnit.
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Rand the psycho? - 06/01/2010 02:53:30 AM 1766 Views
I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:07:33 AM 1175 Views
On Balefire - 06/01/2010 04:43:18 AM 1180 Views
Good point - 06/01/2010 05:04:26 AM 1190 Views
On the nature of BaleFire - 06/01/2010 03:32:25 PM 1108 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:59:12 AM 1006 Views
Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:10:33 AM 1099 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:20:02 AM 1009 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:58:00 AM 1001 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 11:46:13 AM 957 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 03:55:01 PM 970 Views
I disagree - 06/01/2010 05:42:44 PM 923 Views
Re: I disagree - 06/01/2010 06:41:08 PM 958 Views
Re: I disagree - 07/01/2010 04:42:40 AM 941 Views
I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 07:30:56 AM 1063 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 03:32:24 PM 961 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 09:52:47 PM 1066 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 11:19:56 PM 978 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:21:50 AM 1036 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:56:26 AM 970 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 01:46:16 AM 1030 Views
I agree with Templar - 09/01/2010 04:36:20 PM 924 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 07:57:54 AM 1058 Views
Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 02:36:42 PM 1071 Views
Re: Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 04:16:12 PM 1021 Views
But... - 06/01/2010 04:34:02 PM 1108 Views
Re: But... - 06/01/2010 06:14:25 PM 902 Views
Doesn't Balefire remove your thread from the Pattern permanently? - 06/01/2010 02:55:38 PM 1051 Views
No, RJ stated balefired people can be reborn. *NM* - 06/01/2010 03:26:00 PM 511 Views
But not in this turning of the Wheel. So they'd miss out on MANY lifetimes. - 06/01/2010 05:46:04 PM 967 Views
What? - 06/01/2010 06:20:56 PM 983 Views
Where did you get that? - 06/01/2010 07:09:38 PM 938 Views
No, balefire just kills you backwards in time. It is not super-death. *NM* - 06/01/2010 09:58:18 PM 522 Views
LOL ... super-death! - 06/01/2010 11:59:31 PM 907 Views
Hah! *NM* - 07/01/2010 12:06:07 AM 521 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:20 AM 937 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:33 AM 897 Views
Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 06:51:15 PM 1048 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 07:16:14 PM 1000 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 08:58:40 PM 997 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM 991 Views
let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:26:43 PM 1003 Views
Re: let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:40:56 PM 972 Views
actually that quote supports my thoughts - 06/01/2010 11:50:40 PM 1044 Views
Re: actually that quote supports my thoughts - 07/01/2010 12:10:07 AM 939 Views
Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take. - 07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM 1044 Views
Sigh. What mass murder? - 07/01/2010 12:15:01 AM 881 Views
you are kidding right? - 07/01/2010 12:19:58 AM 988 Views
In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:14:32 PM 951 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:57:43 PM 983 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:13:21 PM 985 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:52:24 PM 913 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 08:56:43 PM 995 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:26:01 PM 956 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:30:45 PM 880 Views
Personally I'm kind of sick of Rand being the only person killing FS! - 07/01/2010 09:42:57 PM 1044 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM 997 Views
OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 07/01/2010 10:30:19 PM 1007 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 01:53:25 PM 945 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 02:56:41 PM 976 Views
What might work... - 08/01/2010 12:35:17 PM 886 Views
Re: What might work... - 08/01/2010 11:38:09 PM 902 Views
Yes. Anakin Skywalker all over again - 06/01/2010 11:01:02 PM 1072 Views
Meh - 06/01/2010 11:30:24 PM 905 Views
The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:33:32 PM 906 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:50:37 PM 998 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:55:03 PM 974 Views
I do have to guiltily say, though, that if Rand had balefired the Seanchan and THEN became good... - 07/01/2010 12:03:20 AM 968 Views
*laughs behind hand* - 07/01/2010 12:05:54 AM 1039 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 07/01/2010 12:23:11 AM 891 Views
I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 12:52:25 AM 934 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 01:24:32 AM 991 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 03:33:52 PM 917 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM 1075 Views
right cause all Generals are so well versed in medical conditions - 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM 1037 Views
Nice way to avoid the argument. - 07/01/2010 10:00:17 PM 973 Views
I'm just done talking in circles. You seem to think that because people - 07/01/2010 11:53:05 PM 1000 Views
I concede - 07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM 906 Views
You weren't wrong overall, but there were some serious flaws in your reasoning. - 07/01/2010 02:43:17 AM 1040 Views
Tee hee. - 07/01/2010 05:28:52 AM 977 Views
Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 06:23:09 AM 982 Views
Re: Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 03:23:59 PM 917 Views
I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 12:00:02 AM 994 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 05:56:16 PM 1169 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 18/01/2010 01:00:23 PM 1303 Views
Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 11/01/2010 04:47:10 PM 880 Views
Re: Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 18/01/2010 12:49:26 PM 917 Views

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