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Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. Datakim Send a noteboard - 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM
Rand Travels in disguised under an illusion of invisibility, tracks Graendal down by advancing through her palace and balefires her while she is bathing.


Triggers wards like Sammaels, Graendal flees.


Or a re-use of the Rahvin Scenario: Rand Travels in with a fighting force with orders to only kill those Compelled to attack them, he brings Nynayeve/Cadsuane/random Aes Sedai in his retinue/Wondergirl/a channeling member of his harem/Wise Ones in to detect saidar. Graendal has some sort of defense that doesn't take him out, he chases her down preventing her Gateways from opening all the way each time she tries and finally balefires her just as she's about to escape through an inverted Gateway.


How will Rand chase her? How will he prevent her gateways from opening all the way? How will he reach her in time when she could be anywhere in the palace and she will flee at the instant she senses trouble.

I suppose you could argue that Rand's tav'eren nature would make it so that he could just randomly open a gateway anywhere and accidentally open it ontop of Graendal. But if I start accepting explanations like that, any debate becomes meaningless.

Oh, and I love how you just mention "Graendal has some sort of defense that doesn't take him out" as if its the most natural thing in the world. For all we know Rand would have perished the instant he went anywhere near. Graendal has had months or years even to prepare her little fort with countless wards and traps.

The point is that Rand/LTT makes it clear that this kind of surprise attack is not possible. Since you did not read that part of the book, I will write it for you here.


How? How can I kill a foe who is more clever than myself, a foe who is _impossible to surprise_ yet who is also _unwilling to confront me_?


I think LTT knows Graendal better than you do. If he says she is impossible to surprise, I believe him. And that means your suggestions will not work.

That was the whole _point_ of the scene and this whole thing. That surprising or confronting Graendal the way he did Rahvin and the others is simply not possible. Thats how Graendal operates. To accept your plans, would mean accepting that Graendal is not actually Graendal.
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Rand the psycho? - 06/01/2010 02:53:30 AM 1662 Views
I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:07:33 AM 1066 Views
On Balefire - 06/01/2010 04:43:18 AM 1065 Views
Good point - 06/01/2010 05:04:26 AM 1109 Views
On the nature of BaleFire - 06/01/2010 03:32:25 PM 999 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:59:12 AM 897 Views
Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:10:33 AM 1021 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:20:02 AM 928 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:58:00 AM 898 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 11:46:13 AM 848 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 03:55:01 PM 856 Views
I disagree - 06/01/2010 05:42:44 PM 804 Views
Re: I disagree - 06/01/2010 06:41:08 PM 836 Views
Re: I disagree - 07/01/2010 04:42:40 AM 817 Views
I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 07:30:56 AM 972 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 03:32:24 PM 878 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 09:52:47 PM 948 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 11:19:56 PM 856 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:21:50 AM 924 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:56:26 AM 857 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 01:46:16 AM 915 Views
I agree with Templar - 09/01/2010 04:36:20 PM 840 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 07:57:54 AM 958 Views
Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 02:36:42 PM 962 Views
Re: Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 04:16:12 PM 883 Views
But... - 06/01/2010 04:34:02 PM 992 Views
Re: But... - 06/01/2010 06:14:25 PM 803 Views
Doesn't Balefire remove your thread from the Pattern permanently? - 06/01/2010 02:55:38 PM 943 Views
No, RJ stated balefired people can be reborn. *NM* - 06/01/2010 03:26:00 PM 454 Views
But not in this turning of the Wheel. So they'd miss out on MANY lifetimes. - 06/01/2010 05:46:04 PM 873 Views
What? - 06/01/2010 06:20:56 PM 883 Views
Where did you get that? - 06/01/2010 07:09:38 PM 836 Views
No, balefire just kills you backwards in time. It is not super-death. *NM* - 06/01/2010 09:58:18 PM 482 Views
LOL ... super-death! - 06/01/2010 11:59:31 PM 821 Views
Hah! *NM* - 07/01/2010 12:06:07 AM 471 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:20 AM 833 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:33 AM 807 Views
Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 06:51:15 PM 933 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 07:16:14 PM 852 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 08:58:40 PM 896 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM 890 Views
let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:26:43 PM 895 Views
Re: let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:40:56 PM 887 Views
actually that quote supports my thoughts - 06/01/2010 11:50:40 PM 911 Views
Re: actually that quote supports my thoughts - 07/01/2010 12:10:07 AM 840 Views
Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take. - 07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM 936 Views
Sigh. What mass murder? - 07/01/2010 12:15:01 AM 787 Views
you are kidding right? - 07/01/2010 12:19:58 AM 896 Views
In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:14:32 PM 862 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:57:43 PM 870 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:13:21 PM 886 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:52:24 PM 831 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 08:56:43 PM 898 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:26:01 PM 847 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:30:45 PM 784 Views
Personally I'm kind of sick of Rand being the only person killing FS! - 07/01/2010 09:42:57 PM 954 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM 890 Views
OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 07/01/2010 10:30:19 PM 876 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 01:53:25 PM 843 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 02:56:41 PM 877 Views
What might work... - 08/01/2010 12:35:17 PM 784 Views
Re: What might work... - 08/01/2010 11:38:09 PM 809 Views
Yes. Anakin Skywalker all over again - 06/01/2010 11:01:02 PM 969 Views
Meh - 06/01/2010 11:30:24 PM 806 Views
The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:33:32 PM 814 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:50:37 PM 896 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:55:03 PM 856 Views
I do have to guiltily say, though, that if Rand had balefired the Seanchan and THEN became good... - 07/01/2010 12:03:20 AM 863 Views
*laughs behind hand* - 07/01/2010 12:05:54 AM 939 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 07/01/2010 12:23:11 AM 803 Views
I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 12:52:25 AM 813 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 01:24:32 AM 879 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 03:33:52 PM 827 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM 966 Views
right cause all Generals are so well versed in medical conditions - 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM 917 Views
Nice way to avoid the argument. - 07/01/2010 10:00:17 PM 865 Views
I'm just done talking in circles. You seem to think that because people - 07/01/2010 11:53:05 PM 906 Views
I concede - 07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM 805 Views
You weren't wrong overall, but there were some serious flaws in your reasoning. - 07/01/2010 02:43:17 AM 913 Views
Tee hee. - 07/01/2010 05:28:52 AM 877 Views
Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 06:23:09 AM 894 Views
Re: Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 03:23:59 PM 816 Views
I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 12:00:02 AM 895 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 05:56:16 PM 1053 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 18/01/2010 01:00:23 PM 1187 Views
Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 11/01/2010 04:47:10 PM 785 Views
Re: Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 18/01/2010 12:49:26 PM 830 Views

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