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Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. Datakim Send a noteboard - 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM
Rand Travels in disguised under an illusion of invisibility, tracks Graendal down by advancing through her palace and balefires her while she is bathing.


Triggers wards like Sammaels, Graendal flees.


Or a re-use of the Rahvin Scenario: Rand Travels in with a fighting force with orders to only kill those Compelled to attack them, he brings Nynayeve/Cadsuane/random Aes Sedai in his retinue/Wondergirl/a channeling member of his harem/Wise Ones in to detect saidar. Graendal has some sort of defense that doesn't take him out, he chases her down preventing her Gateways from opening all the way each time she tries and finally balefires her just as she's about to escape through an inverted Gateway.


How will Rand chase her? How will he prevent her gateways from opening all the way? How will he reach her in time when she could be anywhere in the palace and she will flee at the instant she senses trouble.

I suppose you could argue that Rand's tav'eren nature would make it so that he could just randomly open a gateway anywhere and accidentally open it ontop of Graendal. But if I start accepting explanations like that, any debate becomes meaningless.

Oh, and I love how you just mention "Graendal has some sort of defense that doesn't take him out" as if its the most natural thing in the world. For all we know Rand would have perished the instant he went anywhere near. Graendal has had months or years even to prepare her little fort with countless wards and traps.

The point is that Rand/LTT makes it clear that this kind of surprise attack is not possible. Since you did not read that part of the book, I will write it for you here.


How? How can I kill a foe who is more clever than myself, a foe who is _impossible to surprise_ yet who is also _unwilling to confront me_?


I think LTT knows Graendal better than you do. If he says she is impossible to surprise, I believe him. And that means your suggestions will not work.

That was the whole _point_ of the scene and this whole thing. That surprising or confronting Graendal the way he did Rahvin and the others is simply not possible. Thats how Graendal operates. To accept your plans, would mean accepting that Graendal is not actually Graendal.
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Rand the psycho? - 06/01/2010 02:53:30 AM 1703 Views
I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:07:33 AM 1109 Views
On Balefire - 06/01/2010 04:43:18 AM 1105 Views
Good point - 06/01/2010 05:04:26 AM 1131 Views
On the nature of BaleFire - 06/01/2010 03:32:25 PM 1031 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:59:12 AM 929 Views
Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:10:33 AM 1046 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:20:02 AM 954 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:58:00 AM 943 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 11:46:13 AM 883 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 03:55:01 PM 895 Views
I disagree - 06/01/2010 05:42:44 PM 849 Views
Re: I disagree - 06/01/2010 06:41:08 PM 884 Views
Re: I disagree - 07/01/2010 04:42:40 AM 873 Views
I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 07:30:56 AM 1003 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 03:32:24 PM 905 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 09:52:47 PM 981 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 11:19:56 PM 909 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:21:50 AM 965 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:56:26 AM 902 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 01:46:16 AM 961 Views
I agree with Templar - 09/01/2010 04:36:20 PM 871 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 07:57:54 AM 992 Views
Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 02:36:42 PM 1001 Views
Re: Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 04:16:12 PM 942 Views
But... - 06/01/2010 04:34:02 PM 1029 Views
Re: But... - 06/01/2010 06:14:25 PM 836 Views
Doesn't Balefire remove your thread from the Pattern permanently? - 06/01/2010 02:55:38 PM 980 Views
No, RJ stated balefired people can be reborn. *NM* - 06/01/2010 03:26:00 PM 477 Views
But not in this turning of the Wheel. So they'd miss out on MANY lifetimes. - 06/01/2010 05:46:04 PM 909 Views
What? - 06/01/2010 06:20:56 PM 922 Views
Where did you get that? - 06/01/2010 07:09:38 PM 874 Views
No, balefire just kills you backwards in time. It is not super-death. *NM* - 06/01/2010 09:58:18 PM 493 Views
LOL ... super-death! - 06/01/2010 11:59:31 PM 845 Views
Hah! *NM* - 07/01/2010 12:06:07 AM 487 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:20 AM 865 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:33 AM 833 Views
Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 06:51:15 PM 980 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 07:16:14 PM 904 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 08:58:40 PM 930 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM 930 Views
let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:26:43 PM 920 Views
Re: let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:40:56 PM 917 Views
actually that quote supports my thoughts - 06/01/2010 11:50:40 PM 961 Views
Re: actually that quote supports my thoughts - 07/01/2010 12:10:07 AM 868 Views
Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take. - 07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM 984 Views
Sigh. What mass murder? - 07/01/2010 12:15:01 AM 818 Views
you are kidding right? - 07/01/2010 12:19:58 AM 922 Views
In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:14:32 PM 884 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:57:43 PM 909 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:13:21 PM 919 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:52:24 PM 858 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 08:56:43 PM 939 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:26:01 PM 877 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:30:45 PM 811 Views
Personally I'm kind of sick of Rand being the only person killing FS! - 07/01/2010 09:42:57 PM 978 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM 926 Views
OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 07/01/2010 10:30:19 PM 925 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 01:53:25 PM 875 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 02:56:41 PM 908 Views
What might work... - 08/01/2010 12:35:17 PM 819 Views
Re: What might work... - 08/01/2010 11:38:09 PM 837 Views
Yes. Anakin Skywalker all over again - 06/01/2010 11:01:02 PM 1003 Views
Meh - 06/01/2010 11:30:24 PM 839 Views
The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:33:32 PM 841 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:50:37 PM 929 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:55:03 PM 896 Views
I do have to guiltily say, though, that if Rand had balefired the Seanchan and THEN became good... - 07/01/2010 12:03:20 AM 907 Views
*laughs behind hand* - 07/01/2010 12:05:54 AM 967 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 07/01/2010 12:23:11 AM 832 Views
I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 12:52:25 AM 858 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 01:24:32 AM 922 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 03:33:52 PM 855 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM 999 Views
right cause all Generals are so well versed in medical conditions - 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM 957 Views
Nice way to avoid the argument. - 07/01/2010 10:00:17 PM 900 Views
I'm just done talking in circles. You seem to think that because people - 07/01/2010 11:53:05 PM 930 Views
I concede - 07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM 836 Views
You weren't wrong overall, but there were some serious flaws in your reasoning. - 07/01/2010 02:43:17 AM 965 Views
Tee hee. - 07/01/2010 05:28:52 AM 904 Views
Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 06:23:09 AM 920 Views
Re: Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 03:23:59 PM 843 Views
I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 12:00:02 AM 918 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 05:56:16 PM 1093 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 18/01/2010 01:00:23 PM 1223 Views
Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 11/01/2010 04:47:10 PM 815 Views
Re: Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 18/01/2010 12:49:26 PM 866 Views

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