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Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: Sidious Send a noteboard - 08/01/2010 01:53:25 PM
ROFL

I'm sorry but if you think Rand was in any threat going against any of the other Forsaken earlier in the series when he was at his weakest and least effective, than I don't know what to tell you.

He *almost* got sliced by Asmo's hair thin trap, but *luckily* he didn't
He *almost* was blown up by Asmo's exposive wards while chasing him, but *luckily* he conveniently threw up a superhard bubble of Air
He *almost* got his foot sliced off by his own closing Gateway while chasing Asmo, but *luckily* it only took off a bit of his heel
He *almost* died when Rahvin's trap triggered, but *luckily* it killed everyone around him but him
He *almost* got balefired himself, but *luckily* he wove it in the microsecond before it hit him and both canceled each other out
He *almost* got killed alongside Aviendha and Egwene while fighting the Shaido but *luckily* he didn't (and used a cushion of Air to save them all which we have never seen duplicated nor mentioned again in the series despite it's usefulness)

I'm sorry, but I have to do a ROFL ESPECIALLY when you say "How do you surprise someone who can't be surprised" when we have seen Graendal surprised by Sammael into remaining in their partnership and then bated into anger and almost standing and fighting Lanfear (BTW she would have been quite "surprised" if Sammael had done whatever he was going to do rather be interrupted).

I mean, I'm sorry, but the series is just not set up to really accept that he had no choices. So, as I said before, I understand that you are trying to defend his status of a mass murderer by implying that he had no choice, but he's actually been on quite a roll in the last few books wiping the floor with anyone who directly attacks him.

My point IS that a debate about whether Rand had a choice is meaningless because using Tel'Aran'Rhiod or his Talent for Travelling could have conceivably been used as a convenient plot point to drop him right on Graendal's head.

But that was not your question: Your question was "Did Rand become a psycho?" And my answer is, and remains, yes. Did he mass murder people and consider it a couple more times in the books? Yes. Did he have a choice as to how he confronted Graendal? Yes; but he didn't - because it wouldn't have fit the plot.

I mean, at this point in the story, he could have forced his t'a'veren powers to make Graendal have a stroke or Travel right to him, and it might have happened.


Actually I don't think there is any conceivable way he could have killed or caught Graendal other than surprising her like he did. Lews Therin makes it quite clear that Graendal cannot be baited, ambushed or tracked. He says that she is verifiably more intelligent and devious than him.

I think Graendal had plans we couldn't even conceive of - wardings all over the place, decoys etc. She told Sammael she hopes he has a backup plan after Ilian, which implies that she certainly did if Rand ever went for her.

Moghedien is possibly the most impossible Forsaken to find, but Graendal is second - and she won't give into a grudge like Moghedien will. She'll happily move along to her next base and cause havoc there.

Despite all Rand did, and despite his desperation to catch this woman, WE are still fighting over whether the woman is alive or not. It's a clear indication that even we as readers think she could have escaped that deadly scenario.
Wheel of Time board admin
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Rand the psycho? - 06/01/2010 02:53:30 AM 1618 Views
I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:07:33 AM 1021 Views
On Balefire - 06/01/2010 04:43:18 AM 1016 Views
Good point - 06/01/2010 05:04:26 AM 1045 Views
On the nature of BaleFire - 06/01/2010 03:32:25 PM 948 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:59:12 AM 855 Views
Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:10:33 AM 974 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:20:02 AM 891 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:58:00 AM 858 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 11:46:13 AM 807 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 03:55:01 PM 809 Views
I disagree - 06/01/2010 05:42:44 PM 770 Views
Re: I disagree - 06/01/2010 06:41:08 PM 796 Views
Re: I disagree - 07/01/2010 04:42:40 AM 777 Views
I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 07:30:56 AM 932 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 03:32:24 PM 839 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 09:52:47 PM 902 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 11:19:56 PM 790 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:21:50 AM 883 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:56:26 AM 815 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 01:46:16 AM 854 Views
I agree with Templar - 09/01/2010 04:36:20 PM 800 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 07:57:54 AM 911 Views
Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 02:36:42 PM 925 Views
Re: Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 04:16:12 PM 839 Views
But... - 06/01/2010 04:34:02 PM 948 Views
Re: But... - 06/01/2010 06:14:25 PM 766 Views
Doesn't Balefire remove your thread from the Pattern permanently? - 06/01/2010 02:55:38 PM 870 Views
No, RJ stated balefired people can be reborn. *NM* - 06/01/2010 03:26:00 PM 426 Views
But not in this turning of the Wheel. So they'd miss out on MANY lifetimes. - 06/01/2010 05:46:04 PM 830 Views
What? - 06/01/2010 06:20:56 PM 848 Views
Where did you get that? - 06/01/2010 07:09:38 PM 800 Views
No, balefire just kills you backwards in time. It is not super-death. *NM* - 06/01/2010 09:58:18 PM 459 Views
LOL ... super-death! - 06/01/2010 11:59:31 PM 778 Views
Hah! *NM* - 07/01/2010 12:06:07 AM 428 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:20 AM 786 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:33 AM 760 Views
Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 06:51:15 PM 897 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 07:16:14 PM 815 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 08:58:40 PM 855 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM 848 Views
let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:26:43 PM 835 Views
Re: let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:40:56 PM 830 Views
actually that quote supports my thoughts - 06/01/2010 11:50:40 PM 848 Views
Re: actually that quote supports my thoughts - 07/01/2010 12:10:07 AM 808 Views
Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take. - 07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM 865 Views
Sigh. What mass murder? - 07/01/2010 12:15:01 AM 751 Views
you are kidding right? - 07/01/2010 12:19:58 AM 842 Views
In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:14:32 PM 822 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:57:43 PM 830 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:13:21 PM 843 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:52:24 PM 788 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 08:56:43 PM 857 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:26:01 PM 786 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:30:45 PM 730 Views
Personally I'm kind of sick of Rand being the only person killing FS! - 07/01/2010 09:42:57 PM 908 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM 844 Views
OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 07/01/2010 10:30:19 PM 826 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 01:53:25 PM 777 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 02:56:41 PM 832 Views
What might work... - 08/01/2010 12:35:17 PM 744 Views
Re: What might work... - 08/01/2010 11:38:09 PM 765 Views
Yes. Anakin Skywalker all over again - 06/01/2010 11:01:02 PM 921 Views
Meh - 06/01/2010 11:30:24 PM 763 Views
The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:33:32 PM 770 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:50:37 PM 847 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:55:03 PM 792 Views
I do have to guiltily say, though, that if Rand had balefired the Seanchan and THEN became good... - 07/01/2010 12:03:20 AM 825 Views
*laughs behind hand* - 07/01/2010 12:05:54 AM 902 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 07/01/2010 12:23:11 AM 771 Views
I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 12:52:25 AM 776 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 01:24:32 AM 838 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 03:33:52 PM 780 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM 924 Views
right cause all Generals are so well versed in medical conditions - 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM 880 Views
Nice way to avoid the argument. - 07/01/2010 10:00:17 PM 830 Views
I'm just done talking in circles. You seem to think that because people - 07/01/2010 11:53:05 PM 863 Views
I concede - 07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM 758 Views
You weren't wrong overall, but there were some serious flaws in your reasoning. - 07/01/2010 02:43:17 AM 868 Views
Tee hee. - 07/01/2010 05:28:52 AM 819 Views
Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 06:23:09 AM 847 Views
Re: Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 03:23:59 PM 774 Views
I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 12:00:02 AM 854 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 05:56:16 PM 1011 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 18/01/2010 01:00:23 PM 1138 Views
Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 11/01/2010 04:47:10 PM 740 Views
Re: Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 18/01/2010 12:49:26 PM 784 Views

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