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Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: Sidious Send a noteboard - 08/01/2010 01:53:25 PM
ROFL

I'm sorry but if you think Rand was in any threat going against any of the other Forsaken earlier in the series when he was at his weakest and least effective, than I don't know what to tell you.

He *almost* got sliced by Asmo's hair thin trap, but *luckily* he didn't
He *almost* was blown up by Asmo's exposive wards while chasing him, but *luckily* he conveniently threw up a superhard bubble of Air
He *almost* got his foot sliced off by his own closing Gateway while chasing Asmo, but *luckily* it only took off a bit of his heel
He *almost* died when Rahvin's trap triggered, but *luckily* it killed everyone around him but him
He *almost* got balefired himself, but *luckily* he wove it in the microsecond before it hit him and both canceled each other out
He *almost* got killed alongside Aviendha and Egwene while fighting the Shaido but *luckily* he didn't (and used a cushion of Air to save them all which we have never seen duplicated nor mentioned again in the series despite it's usefulness)

I'm sorry, but I have to do a ROFL ESPECIALLY when you say "How do you surprise someone who can't be surprised" when we have seen Graendal surprised by Sammael into remaining in their partnership and then bated into anger and almost standing and fighting Lanfear (BTW she would have been quite "surprised" if Sammael had done whatever he was going to do rather be interrupted).

I mean, I'm sorry, but the series is just not set up to really accept that he had no choices. So, as I said before, I understand that you are trying to defend his status of a mass murderer by implying that he had no choice, but he's actually been on quite a roll in the last few books wiping the floor with anyone who directly attacks him.

My point IS that a debate about whether Rand had a choice is meaningless because using Tel'Aran'Rhiod or his Talent for Travelling could have conceivably been used as a convenient plot point to drop him right on Graendal's head.

But that was not your question: Your question was "Did Rand become a psycho?" And my answer is, and remains, yes. Did he mass murder people and consider it a couple more times in the books? Yes. Did he have a choice as to how he confronted Graendal? Yes; but he didn't - because it wouldn't have fit the plot.

I mean, at this point in the story, he could have forced his t'a'veren powers to make Graendal have a stroke or Travel right to him, and it might have happened.


Actually I don't think there is any conceivable way he could have killed or caught Graendal other than surprising her like he did. Lews Therin makes it quite clear that Graendal cannot be baited, ambushed or tracked. He says that she is verifiably more intelligent and devious than him.

I think Graendal had plans we couldn't even conceive of - wardings all over the place, decoys etc. She told Sammael she hopes he has a backup plan after Ilian, which implies that she certainly did if Rand ever went for her.

Moghedien is possibly the most impossible Forsaken to find, but Graendal is second - and she won't give into a grudge like Moghedien will. She'll happily move along to her next base and cause havoc there.

Despite all Rand did, and despite his desperation to catch this woman, WE are still fighting over whether the woman is alive or not. It's a clear indication that even we as readers think she could have escaped that deadly scenario.
Wheel of Time board admin
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Rand the psycho? - 06/01/2010 02:53:30 AM 1738 Views
I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:07:33 AM 1149 Views
On Balefire - 06/01/2010 04:43:18 AM 1148 Views
Good point - 06/01/2010 05:04:26 AM 1158 Views
On the nature of BaleFire - 06/01/2010 03:32:25 PM 1078 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:59:12 AM 970 Views
Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:10:33 AM 1071 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:20:02 AM 977 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:58:00 AM 967 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 11:46:13 AM 928 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 03:55:01 PM 935 Views
I disagree - 06/01/2010 05:42:44 PM 894 Views
Re: I disagree - 06/01/2010 06:41:08 PM 918 Views
Re: I disagree - 07/01/2010 04:42:40 AM 911 Views
I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 07:30:56 AM 1031 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 03:32:24 PM 932 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 09:52:47 PM 1032 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 11:19:56 PM 949 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:21:50 AM 1005 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:56:26 AM 949 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 01:46:16 AM 1002 Views
I agree with Templar - 09/01/2010 04:36:20 PM 901 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 07:57:54 AM 1020 Views
Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 02:36:42 PM 1036 Views
Re: Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 04:16:12 PM 986 Views
But... - 06/01/2010 04:34:02 PM 1079 Views
Re: But... - 06/01/2010 06:14:25 PM 875 Views
Doesn't Balefire remove your thread from the Pattern permanently? - 06/01/2010 02:55:38 PM 1015 Views
No, RJ stated balefired people can be reborn. *NM* - 06/01/2010 03:26:00 PM 497 Views
But not in this turning of the Wheel. So they'd miss out on MANY lifetimes. - 06/01/2010 05:46:04 PM 945 Views
What? - 06/01/2010 06:20:56 PM 954 Views
Where did you get that? - 06/01/2010 07:09:38 PM 907 Views
No, balefire just kills you backwards in time. It is not super-death. *NM* - 06/01/2010 09:58:18 PM 511 Views
LOL ... super-death! - 06/01/2010 11:59:31 PM 886 Views
Hah! *NM* - 07/01/2010 12:06:07 AM 508 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:20 AM 902 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:33 AM 862 Views
Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 06:51:15 PM 1014 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 07:16:14 PM 964 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 08:58:40 PM 959 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM 967 Views
let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:26:43 PM 967 Views
Re: let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:40:56 PM 944 Views
actually that quote supports my thoughts - 06/01/2010 11:50:40 PM 1016 Views
Re: actually that quote supports my thoughts - 07/01/2010 12:10:07 AM 899 Views
Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take. - 07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM 1014 Views
Sigh. What mass murder? - 07/01/2010 12:15:01 AM 848 Views
you are kidding right? - 07/01/2010 12:19:58 AM 957 Views
In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:14:32 PM 922 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:57:43 PM 947 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:13:21 PM 952 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:52:24 PM 881 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 08:56:43 PM 971 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:26:01 PM 917 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:30:45 PM 851 Views
Personally I'm kind of sick of Rand being the only person killing FS! - 07/01/2010 09:42:57 PM 1015 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM 968 Views
OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 07/01/2010 10:30:19 PM 972 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 01:53:25 PM 911 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 02:56:41 PM 947 Views
What might work... - 08/01/2010 12:35:17 PM 858 Views
Re: What might work... - 08/01/2010 11:38:09 PM 872 Views
Yes. Anakin Skywalker all over again - 06/01/2010 11:01:02 PM 1040 Views
Meh - 06/01/2010 11:30:24 PM 882 Views
The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:33:32 PM 878 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:50:37 PM 967 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:55:03 PM 942 Views
I do have to guiltily say, though, that if Rand had balefired the Seanchan and THEN became good... - 07/01/2010 12:03:20 AM 937 Views
*laughs behind hand* - 07/01/2010 12:05:54 AM 1000 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 07/01/2010 12:23:11 AM 866 Views
I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 12:52:25 AM 899 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 01:24:32 AM 951 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 03:33:52 PM 884 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM 1034 Views
right cause all Generals are so well versed in medical conditions - 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM 1005 Views
Nice way to avoid the argument. - 07/01/2010 10:00:17 PM 941 Views
I'm just done talking in circles. You seem to think that because people - 07/01/2010 11:53:05 PM 967 Views
I concede - 07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM 869 Views
You weren't wrong overall, but there were some serious flaws in your reasoning. - 07/01/2010 02:43:17 AM 1004 Views
Tee hee. - 07/01/2010 05:28:52 AM 941 Views
Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 06:23:09 AM 955 Views
Re: Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 03:23:59 PM 887 Views
I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 12:00:02 AM 956 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 05:56:16 PM 1134 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 18/01/2010 01:00:23 PM 1263 Views
Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 11/01/2010 04:47:10 PM 847 Views
Re: Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 18/01/2010 12:49:26 PM 892 Views

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