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Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention Lord Haart Send a noteboard - 09/01/2010 05:56:16 PM
Thousands of people in uniform, with weapons, under agreement to unquestioningly follow the orders of their rulers who have demonstrated zero good faith, and about whom a strong cause can be made for their presumed hostility. SOLDIERS ARE LEGITIMATE TARGETS. Period. This was not a trade delegation, or convention of merchants, it was an army. They refused to explain their ends to a person they believed to have some connection with Rand, and their words regarding their intentions were all indicative of their displeasure at him. They are not his people, and he owes them nothing. Their demand that he put himself entirely in their power, even as they cozy up to a city that has behaved in an extremely hostile manner towards him in the past, whose current government replaced their former leader for her decision to release him from captivity. Rand had NO reason to think them friendly or benevolent, and they were an ARMY in threatening distance of his own followers and forces. Any other way of dealing with them would have entailed greater risks to people he IS responsible for. He was justified in what he planned to do to the Borderlanders AND to the Seanchan. If they don't like it, they shouldn't have come. The "innocent" civilians have had plenty of time to move away (as for example, the Anan family did, in their moral outrage over the Seanchan institutions), but have chosen the Seanchan. They are all culpable.


Even Angelmar? Even Hurin? On a purely clinical basis, I agree that the army has shown little in the way of good faith towards Rand - but that's only considering half the equation.

The Borderlanders have been protecting Randland for a Millennia. Finally, the Dragon is reborn and they expect some support, but until the end of KoD, there is none. Instead, they hear about more trouble to the south - the False Dragon Taim who had killed thousands of Saldeans has been made the HEAD of a legion of insane male channellers, all by order of the Dragon, the man they are relying on. The White Tower is split and offers no support, the other countries are reeling from the Seanchan and Aiel invasions, so isn't it logical for the Borderlanders to assume that the real threat isn't in Trolloc hordes (especially if 50 channelers can kill 100,000 Trollocs a la KoD), but rather in the dissension and division to the south.

If Rand was completely sane, he would immediately see this. But his astrologically-proportioned ego and paranoia are blinding him.

So instead of at least asking Hurin to bring him more information, he considers destroying an entire city and army camp. Not everyone in that camp is even a soldier - many are cooks, cleaners, wives (who we are told accompany their husbands in the case of Saldea), children, who have all been led their by trusted monarchs who have never done wrong by them.

For Rand to jump instantly to feeling distrust, anger and fear towards the Borderlanders is more than just disconcerting.
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Rand the psycho? - 06/01/2010 02:53:30 AM 1704 Views
I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:07:33 AM 1109 Views
On Balefire - 06/01/2010 04:43:18 AM 1105 Views
Good point - 06/01/2010 05:04:26 AM 1133 Views
On the nature of BaleFire - 06/01/2010 03:32:25 PM 1032 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:59:12 AM 929 Views
Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:10:33 AM 1046 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:20:02 AM 954 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:58:00 AM 943 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 11:46:13 AM 883 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 03:55:01 PM 896 Views
I disagree - 06/01/2010 05:42:44 PM 849 Views
Re: I disagree - 06/01/2010 06:41:08 PM 884 Views
Re: I disagree - 07/01/2010 04:42:40 AM 873 Views
I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 07:30:56 AM 1004 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 03:32:24 PM 906 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 09:52:47 PM 982 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 11:19:56 PM 910 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:21:50 AM 966 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:56:26 AM 903 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 01:46:16 AM 961 Views
I agree with Templar - 09/01/2010 04:36:20 PM 871 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 07:57:54 AM 993 Views
Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 02:36:42 PM 1002 Views
Re: Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 04:16:12 PM 942 Views
But... - 06/01/2010 04:34:02 PM 1029 Views
Re: But... - 06/01/2010 06:14:25 PM 836 Views
Doesn't Balefire remove your thread from the Pattern permanently? - 06/01/2010 02:55:38 PM 980 Views
No, RJ stated balefired people can be reborn. *NM* - 06/01/2010 03:26:00 PM 477 Views
But not in this turning of the Wheel. So they'd miss out on MANY lifetimes. - 06/01/2010 05:46:04 PM 909 Views
What? - 06/01/2010 06:20:56 PM 922 Views
Where did you get that? - 06/01/2010 07:09:38 PM 874 Views
No, balefire just kills you backwards in time. It is not super-death. *NM* - 06/01/2010 09:58:18 PM 493 Views
LOL ... super-death! - 06/01/2010 11:59:31 PM 845 Views
Hah! *NM* - 07/01/2010 12:06:07 AM 487 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:20 AM 865 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:33 AM 833 Views
Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 06:51:15 PM 980 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 07:16:14 PM 904 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 08:58:40 PM 931 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM 930 Views
let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:26:43 PM 920 Views
Re: let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:40:56 PM 917 Views
actually that quote supports my thoughts - 06/01/2010 11:50:40 PM 961 Views
Re: actually that quote supports my thoughts - 07/01/2010 12:10:07 AM 869 Views
Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take. - 07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM 984 Views
Sigh. What mass murder? - 07/01/2010 12:15:01 AM 818 Views
you are kidding right? - 07/01/2010 12:19:58 AM 923 Views
In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:14:32 PM 884 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:57:43 PM 911 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:13:21 PM 919 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:52:24 PM 858 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 08:56:43 PM 939 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:26:01 PM 878 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:30:45 PM 811 Views
Personally I'm kind of sick of Rand being the only person killing FS! - 07/01/2010 09:42:57 PM 978 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM 927 Views
OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 07/01/2010 10:30:19 PM 925 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 01:53:25 PM 876 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 02:56:41 PM 909 Views
What might work... - 08/01/2010 12:35:17 PM 820 Views
Re: What might work... - 08/01/2010 11:38:09 PM 838 Views
Yes. Anakin Skywalker all over again - 06/01/2010 11:01:02 PM 1004 Views
Meh - 06/01/2010 11:30:24 PM 839 Views
The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:33:32 PM 842 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:50:37 PM 929 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:55:03 PM 896 Views
I do have to guiltily say, though, that if Rand had balefired the Seanchan and THEN became good... - 07/01/2010 12:03:20 AM 908 Views
*laughs behind hand* - 07/01/2010 12:05:54 AM 967 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 07/01/2010 12:23:11 AM 833 Views
I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 12:52:25 AM 858 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 01:24:32 AM 922 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 03:33:52 PM 855 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM 999 Views
right cause all Generals are so well versed in medical conditions - 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM 958 Views
Nice way to avoid the argument. - 07/01/2010 10:00:17 PM 901 Views
I'm just done talking in circles. You seem to think that because people - 07/01/2010 11:53:05 PM 930 Views
I concede - 07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM 836 Views
You weren't wrong overall, but there were some serious flaws in your reasoning. - 07/01/2010 02:43:17 AM 965 Views
Tee hee. - 07/01/2010 05:28:52 AM 904 Views
Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 06:23:09 AM 920 Views
Re: Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 03:23:59 PM 843 Views
I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 12:00:02 AM 918 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 05:56:16 PM 1094 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 18/01/2010 01:00:23 PM 1223 Views
Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 11/01/2010 04:47:10 PM 815 Views
Re: Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 18/01/2010 12:49:26 PM 866 Views

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