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Your assertions weaken your overall argument. RugbyPlayingAshaman Send a noteboard - 11/01/2010 04:47:10 PM
For example using your last sentence "nd you moralizers lose your credibility by denying that other people have a valid right to protect their own existence. In other words, no one's right to exist takes precedence over your own. You have the right to kill anyone who endangers your existance, as does Rand.", I think you would have a hard time proving to me that the innocent people in Graendal's palace, in the Seanchan headquarters, or the camp followers of the Borderland Army were a threat to Rand's existence.

That is the whole issue with trying to justify the value of taking many innocent lives to destroy one, such as, Graendal's. In these cases, the collateral damage wasn't going to be limited to people that threatened Rand's existence.

In another sentence you say "The state or fate of one's soul is strictly a private matter, and irrelevant to the justification of their homicide.", but this makes no sense, because Rand, an outside agent, is making a decision that transgresses what you already assert to be "a private matter" - in this case, Rand himself justified their deaths in the book, yet you claim that this is irrelevant. The whole point of this post was whether Rand was justified yet the nature of the homicide in question makes the fate of their souls a crucial part of this justification. If he had used a fireball, then it would have been irrelevant. He used balefire, though, which directly acts on their souls. Thus the state and fate of these soul's in relation to the worth of killing Graendal need to be confronted.
"Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise will sooner or later have to find time for illness."
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Rand the psycho? - 06/01/2010 02:53:30 AM 1663 Views
I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:07:33 AM 1067 Views
On Balefire - 06/01/2010 04:43:18 AM 1068 Views
Good point - 06/01/2010 05:04:26 AM 1111 Views
On the nature of BaleFire - 06/01/2010 03:32:25 PM 1001 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:59:12 AM 898 Views
Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:10:33 AM 1022 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:20:02 AM 929 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:58:00 AM 899 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 11:46:13 AM 850 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 03:55:01 PM 858 Views
I disagree - 06/01/2010 05:42:44 PM 806 Views
Re: I disagree - 06/01/2010 06:41:08 PM 839 Views
Re: I disagree - 07/01/2010 04:42:40 AM 819 Views
I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 07:30:56 AM 974 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 03:32:24 PM 879 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 09:52:47 PM 951 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 11:19:56 PM 857 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:21:50 AM 925 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:56:26 AM 858 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 01:46:16 AM 917 Views
I agree with Templar - 09/01/2010 04:36:20 PM 841 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 07:57:54 AM 959 Views
Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 02:36:42 PM 964 Views
Re: Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 04:16:12 PM 883 Views
But... - 06/01/2010 04:34:02 PM 994 Views
Re: But... - 06/01/2010 06:14:25 PM 805 Views
Doesn't Balefire remove your thread from the Pattern permanently? - 06/01/2010 02:55:38 PM 944 Views
No, RJ stated balefired people can be reborn. *NM* - 06/01/2010 03:26:00 PM 454 Views
But not in this turning of the Wheel. So they'd miss out on MANY lifetimes. - 06/01/2010 05:46:04 PM 874 Views
What? - 06/01/2010 06:20:56 PM 886 Views
Where did you get that? - 06/01/2010 07:09:38 PM 838 Views
No, balefire just kills you backwards in time. It is not super-death. *NM* - 06/01/2010 09:58:18 PM 482 Views
LOL ... super-death! - 06/01/2010 11:59:31 PM 822 Views
Hah! *NM* - 07/01/2010 12:06:07 AM 471 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:20 AM 834 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:33 AM 808 Views
Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 06:51:15 PM 934 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 07:16:14 PM 854 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 08:58:40 PM 897 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM 891 Views
let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:26:43 PM 896 Views
Re: let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:40:56 PM 888 Views
actually that quote supports my thoughts - 06/01/2010 11:50:40 PM 912 Views
Re: actually that quote supports my thoughts - 07/01/2010 12:10:07 AM 841 Views
Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take. - 07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM 938 Views
Sigh. What mass murder? - 07/01/2010 12:15:01 AM 788 Views
you are kidding right? - 07/01/2010 12:19:58 AM 897 Views
In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:14:32 PM 863 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:57:43 PM 872 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:13:21 PM 887 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:52:24 PM 832 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 08:56:43 PM 899 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:26:01 PM 848 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:30:45 PM 784 Views
Personally I'm kind of sick of Rand being the only person killing FS! - 07/01/2010 09:42:57 PM 957 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM 891 Views
OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 07/01/2010 10:30:19 PM 877 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 01:53:25 PM 844 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 02:56:41 PM 878 Views
What might work... - 08/01/2010 12:35:17 PM 785 Views
Re: What might work... - 08/01/2010 11:38:09 PM 811 Views
Yes. Anakin Skywalker all over again - 06/01/2010 11:01:02 PM 970 Views
Meh - 06/01/2010 11:30:24 PM 808 Views
The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:33:32 PM 815 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:50:37 PM 897 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:55:03 PM 858 Views
I do have to guiltily say, though, that if Rand had balefired the Seanchan and THEN became good... - 07/01/2010 12:03:20 AM 864 Views
*laughs behind hand* - 07/01/2010 12:05:54 AM 940 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 07/01/2010 12:23:11 AM 803 Views
I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 12:52:25 AM 814 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 01:24:32 AM 880 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 03:33:52 PM 829 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM 968 Views
right cause all Generals are so well versed in medical conditions - 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM 918 Views
Nice way to avoid the argument. - 07/01/2010 10:00:17 PM 867 Views
I'm just done talking in circles. You seem to think that because people - 07/01/2010 11:53:05 PM 908 Views
I concede - 07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM 807 Views
You weren't wrong overall, but there were some serious flaws in your reasoning. - 07/01/2010 02:43:17 AM 914 Views
Tee hee. - 07/01/2010 05:28:52 AM 878 Views
Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 06:23:09 AM 894 Views
Re: Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 03:23:59 PM 818 Views
I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 12:00:02 AM 897 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 05:56:16 PM 1055 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 18/01/2010 01:00:23 PM 1188 Views
Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 11/01/2010 04:47:10 PM 787 Views
Re: Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 18/01/2010 12:49:26 PM 832 Views

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