Your assertions weaken your overall argument.
RugbyPlayingAshaman Send a noteboard - 11/01/2010 04:47:10 PM
For example using your last sentence "nd you moralizers lose your credibility by denying that other people have a valid right to protect their own existence. In other words, no one's right to exist takes precedence over your own. You have the right to kill anyone who endangers your existance, as does Rand.", I think you would have a hard time proving to me that the innocent people in Graendal's palace, in the Seanchan headquarters, or the camp followers of the Borderland Army were a threat to Rand's existence.
That is the whole issue with trying to justify the value of taking many innocent lives to destroy one, such as, Graendal's. In these cases, the collateral damage wasn't going to be limited to people that threatened Rand's existence.
In another sentence you say "The state or fate of one's soul is strictly a private matter, and irrelevant to the justification of their homicide.", but this makes no sense, because Rand, an outside agent, is making a decision that transgresses what you already assert to be "a private matter" - in this case, Rand himself justified their deaths in the book, yet you claim that this is irrelevant. The whole point of this post was whether Rand was justified yet the nature of the homicide in question makes the fate of their souls a crucial part of this justification. If he had used a fireball, then it would have been irrelevant. He used balefire, though, which directly acts on their souls. Thus the state and fate of these soul's in relation to the worth of killing Graendal need to be confronted.
That is the whole issue with trying to justify the value of taking many innocent lives to destroy one, such as, Graendal's. In these cases, the collateral damage wasn't going to be limited to people that threatened Rand's existence.
In another sentence you say "The state or fate of one's soul is strictly a private matter, and irrelevant to the justification of their homicide.", but this makes no sense, because Rand, an outside agent, is making a decision that transgresses what you already assert to be "a private matter" - in this case, Rand himself justified their deaths in the book, yet you claim that this is irrelevant. The whole point of this post was whether Rand was justified yet the nature of the homicide in question makes the fate of their souls a crucial part of this justification. If he had used a fireball, then it would have been irrelevant. He used balefire, though, which directly acts on their souls. Thus the state and fate of these soul's in relation to the worth of killing Graendal need to be confronted.
"Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise will sooner or later have to find time for illness."
Rand the psycho?
- 06/01/2010 02:53:30 AM
1835 Views
I cannot follow your assumptions.
- 06/01/2010 04:07:33 AM
1246 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions.
- 06/01/2010 04:59:12 AM
1074 Views
Wait!
- 06/01/2010 05:10:33 AM
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Re: Wait!
- 06/01/2010 05:20:02 AM
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Re: Wait!
- 06/01/2010 05:58:00 AM
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Re: Wait!
- 06/01/2010 11:46:13 AM
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Re: Wait!
- 06/01/2010 03:55:01 PM
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I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 06/01/2010 07:30:56 AM
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Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 06/01/2010 03:32:24 PM
1023 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 06/01/2010 09:52:47 PM
1124 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 06/01/2010 11:19:56 PM
1044 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 07/01/2010 12:21:50 AM
1100 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 07/01/2010 12:56:26 AM
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Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 07/01/2010 01:46:16 AM
1099 Views
Of course, I agree with you, esp since I just put forth the idea you support earlier in the thread.
- 11/01/2010 04:58:26 PM
1535 Views
Rand crossed a line
- 06/01/2010 02:36:42 PM
1126 Views
Doesn't Balefire remove your thread from the Pattern permanently?
- 06/01/2010 02:55:38 PM
1116 Views
No, RJ stated balefired people can be reborn. *NM*
- 06/01/2010 03:26:00 PM
542 Views
But not in this turning of the Wheel. So they'd miss out on MANY lifetimes.
- 06/01/2010 05:46:04 PM
1024 Views
No, balefire just kills you backwards in time. It is not super-death. *NM*
- 06/01/2010 09:58:18 PM
549 Views
LOL ... super-death!
- 06/01/2010 11:59:31 PM
965 Views
Yes it was.
- 06/01/2010 06:51:15 PM
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Re: Yes it was.
- 06/01/2010 07:16:14 PM
1069 Views
Re: Yes it was.
- 06/01/2010 08:58:40 PM
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Re: Yes it was.
- 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM
1057 Views
let me ask the question in a different way
- 06/01/2010 11:26:43 PM
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Re: let me ask the question in a different way
- 06/01/2010 11:40:56 PM
1041 Views
actually that quote supports my thoughts
- 06/01/2010 11:50:40 PM
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Re: actually that quote supports my thoughts
- 07/01/2010 12:10:07 AM
992 Views
yet it could take him some undetermined amount of time to figure out your dead?
- 07/01/2010 12:34:34 AM
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Re: yet it could take him some undetermined amount of time to figure out your dead?
- 07/01/2010 01:13:40 AM
957 Views
Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take.
- 07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM
1098 Views
Sigh. What mass murder?
- 07/01/2010 12:15:01 AM
942 Views
In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 03:14:32 PM
1017 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 03:57:43 PM
1043 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 07:13:21 PM
1048 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 07:52:24 PM
970 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 08:56:43 PM
1060 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 09:26:01 PM
1024 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 09:30:45 PM
942 Views
Personally I'm kind of sick of Rand being the only person killing FS!
- 07/01/2010 09:42:57 PM
1096 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM
1065 Views
OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol:
- 07/01/2010 10:30:19 PM
1071 Views
Yes. Anakin Skywalker all over again
- 06/01/2010 11:01:02 PM
1135 Views
Meh
- 06/01/2010 11:30:24 PM
961 Views
The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them!
- 06/01/2010 11:33:32 PM
967 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them!
- 06/01/2010 11:50:37 PM
1066 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them!
- 06/01/2010 11:55:03 PM
1026 Views
I do have to guiltily say, though, that if Rand had balefired the Seanchan and THEN became good...
- 07/01/2010 12:03:20 AM
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Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them!
- 07/01/2010 12:23:11 AM
946 Views
I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing
- 07/01/2010 12:52:25 AM
992 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing
- 07/01/2010 01:24:32 AM
1060 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing
- 07/01/2010 03:33:52 PM
979 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing
- 07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM
1134 Views
right cause all Generals are so well versed in medical conditions
- 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM
1096 Views
- 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM
1096 Views
Nice way to avoid the argument.
- 07/01/2010 10:00:17 PM
1032 Views
I'm just done talking in circles. You seem to think that because people
- 07/01/2010 11:53:05 PM
1056 Views
I concede
- 07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM
966 Views
You weren't wrong overall, but there were some serious flaws in your reasoning.
- 07/01/2010 02:43:17 AM
1092 Views
Morals are subjective anyhow,
- 07/01/2010 06:23:09 AM
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Re: Morals are subjective anyhow,
- 07/01/2010 03:23:59 PM
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I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention
- 09/01/2010 12:00:02 AM
1045 Views
Your assertions weaken your overall argument.
- 11/01/2010 04:47:10 PM
940 Views
You are treating Graendal's "pets" as though they were enemy combatants
- 07/01/2010 03:40:03 PM
1108 Views
Like I give a damn what a group of professional killers would do.
- 08/01/2010 11:39:11 PM
984 Views
Graendal captured these people as part of the Shadows offensive, Operation Chaos Rules
- 09/01/2010 12:00:40 AM
1267 Views
Well, I still liked your first argument. It's a freaking war. The argument ...
- 07/01/2010 07:08:53 PM
1022 Views
