Active Users:1745 Time:31/10/2025 10:47:36 AM
Your assertions weaken your overall argument. RugbyPlayingAshaman Send a noteboard - 11/01/2010 04:47:10 PM
For example using your last sentence "nd you moralizers lose your credibility by denying that other people have a valid right to protect their own existence. In other words, no one's right to exist takes precedence over your own. You have the right to kill anyone who endangers your existance, as does Rand.", I think you would have a hard time proving to me that the innocent people in Graendal's palace, in the Seanchan headquarters, or the camp followers of the Borderland Army were a threat to Rand's existence.

That is the whole issue with trying to justify the value of taking many innocent lives to destroy one, such as, Graendal's. In these cases, the collateral damage wasn't going to be limited to people that threatened Rand's existence.

In another sentence you say "The state or fate of one's soul is strictly a private matter, and irrelevant to the justification of their homicide.", but this makes no sense, because Rand, an outside agent, is making a decision that transgresses what you already assert to be "a private matter" - in this case, Rand himself justified their deaths in the book, yet you claim that this is irrelevant. The whole point of this post was whether Rand was justified yet the nature of the homicide in question makes the fate of their souls a crucial part of this justification. If he had used a fireball, then it would have been irrelevant. He used balefire, though, which directly acts on their souls. Thus the state and fate of these soul's in relation to the worth of killing Graendal need to be confronted.
"Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise will sooner or later have to find time for illness."
Reply to message
Rand the psycho? - 06/01/2010 02:53:30 AM 1705 Views
I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:07:33 AM 1110 Views
On Balefire - 06/01/2010 04:43:18 AM 1107 Views
Good point - 06/01/2010 05:04:26 AM 1133 Views
On the nature of BaleFire - 06/01/2010 03:32:25 PM 1033 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:59:12 AM 930 Views
Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:10:33 AM 1047 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:20:02 AM 955 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:58:00 AM 944 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 11:46:13 AM 884 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 03:55:01 PM 897 Views
I disagree - 06/01/2010 05:42:44 PM 849 Views
Re: I disagree - 06/01/2010 06:41:08 PM 884 Views
Re: I disagree - 07/01/2010 04:42:40 AM 873 Views
I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 07:30:56 AM 1004 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 03:32:24 PM 907 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 09:52:47 PM 983 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 11:19:56 PM 911 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:21:50 AM 967 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:56:26 AM 903 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 01:46:16 AM 963 Views
I agree with Templar - 09/01/2010 04:36:20 PM 872 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 07:57:54 AM 994 Views
Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 02:36:42 PM 1002 Views
Re: Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 04:16:12 PM 943 Views
But... - 06/01/2010 04:34:02 PM 1029 Views
Re: But... - 06/01/2010 06:14:25 PM 838 Views
Doesn't Balefire remove your thread from the Pattern permanently? - 06/01/2010 02:55:38 PM 982 Views
No, RJ stated balefired people can be reborn. *NM* - 06/01/2010 03:26:00 PM 477 Views
But not in this turning of the Wheel. So they'd miss out on MANY lifetimes. - 06/01/2010 05:46:04 PM 909 Views
What? - 06/01/2010 06:20:56 PM 922 Views
Where did you get that? - 06/01/2010 07:09:38 PM 876 Views
No, balefire just kills you backwards in time. It is not super-death. *NM* - 06/01/2010 09:58:18 PM 493 Views
LOL ... super-death! - 06/01/2010 11:59:31 PM 846 Views
Hah! *NM* - 07/01/2010 12:06:07 AM 487 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:20 AM 866 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:33 AM 834 Views
Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 06:51:15 PM 981 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 07:16:14 PM 906 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 08:58:40 PM 932 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM 931 Views
let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:26:43 PM 922 Views
Re: let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:40:56 PM 918 Views
actually that quote supports my thoughts - 06/01/2010 11:50:40 PM 963 Views
Re: actually that quote supports my thoughts - 07/01/2010 12:10:07 AM 870 Views
Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take. - 07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM 986 Views
Sigh. What mass murder? - 07/01/2010 12:15:01 AM 819 Views
you are kidding right? - 07/01/2010 12:19:58 AM 924 Views
In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:14:32 PM 886 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:57:43 PM 911 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:13:21 PM 919 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:52:24 PM 858 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 08:56:43 PM 940 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:26:01 PM 879 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:30:45 PM 811 Views
Personally I'm kind of sick of Rand being the only person killing FS! - 07/01/2010 09:42:57 PM 980 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM 927 Views
OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 07/01/2010 10:30:19 PM 928 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 01:53:25 PM 877 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 02:56:41 PM 910 Views
What might work... - 08/01/2010 12:35:17 PM 821 Views
Re: What might work... - 08/01/2010 11:38:09 PM 839 Views
Yes. Anakin Skywalker all over again - 06/01/2010 11:01:02 PM 1005 Views
Meh - 06/01/2010 11:30:24 PM 841 Views
The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:33:32 PM 843 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:50:37 PM 930 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:55:03 PM 898 Views
I do have to guiltily say, though, that if Rand had balefired the Seanchan and THEN became good... - 07/01/2010 12:03:20 AM 909 Views
*laughs behind hand* - 07/01/2010 12:05:54 AM 968 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 07/01/2010 12:23:11 AM 834 Views
I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 12:52:25 AM 859 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 01:24:32 AM 922 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 03:33:52 PM 855 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM 1001 Views
right cause all Generals are so well versed in medical conditions - 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM 959 Views
Nice way to avoid the argument. - 07/01/2010 10:00:17 PM 902 Views
I'm just done talking in circles. You seem to think that because people - 07/01/2010 11:53:05 PM 931 Views
I concede - 07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM 838 Views
You weren't wrong overall, but there were some serious flaws in your reasoning. - 07/01/2010 02:43:17 AM 965 Views
Tee hee. - 07/01/2010 05:28:52 AM 905 Views
Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 06:23:09 AM 920 Views
Re: Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 03:23:59 PM 845 Views
I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 12:00:02 AM 918 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 05:56:16 PM 1095 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 18/01/2010 01:00:23 PM 1225 Views
Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 11/01/2010 04:47:10 PM 817 Views
Re: Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 18/01/2010 12:49:26 PM 866 Views

Reply to Message