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This ties in with his parallel to Lucifer. Kieran Send a noteboard - 03/03/2010 12:57:37 AM
Ishamael is the ultimate villain and minion for the Dark One. He believes in pure evil, knows what it means to break the Wheel, and still supports it. This makes him unique among the Forsaken - the rest still think that they'll rule in hell.

In part, I therefore disagree with Shannow. I think Ishamael, like every great philosopher in our history, is a step higher in mental functioning. He is more intelligent than the other Forsaken, and probably every character we know. The fact that he chose the wrong side is curious, except for the fact that he thinks it is the right side. That's possibly why his peers think he's mad.


Ishamael has many similarities to the fallen angel Lucifer. In this case how absolute knowledge brings Pride and a Nihilistic PoV to life. As the Bible puts it: "Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee", and later, "Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee." This tells of how he had ultimate wisdom and through his great reasoning fell.
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Ishamael's nature Sidious - 01/03/2010 05:27:48 PM 1632 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature Watcher - 01/03/2010 07:15:54 PM 670 Views
Sisyphus *NM* damookster - 02/03/2010 02:27:06 AM 218 Views
Not a question of intelligence. Rather, a different way of thinking... Shannow - 01/03/2010 07:23:37 PM 717 Views
I'd go with this - he lost sight of the forest for enumerating the trees. Cannoli - 01/03/2010 08:21:39 PM 755 Views
I agree, except with your statement on what Ishamael's area of expertise is ... Shishka - 02/03/2010 03:17:13 PM 519 Views
Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil Sidious - 02/03/2010 04:38:06 PM 528 Views
Are you saying that philosophers are inherently more intelligent than other academics? Shannow - 02/03/2010 04:53:13 PM 443 Views
Maybe Sidious - 02/03/2010 06:00:20 PM 507 Views
Crap File Leader - 02/03/2010 08:58:12 PM 490 Views
That high IQ should make you realise that I am making the same point you are... Shannow - 02/03/2010 09:53:59 PM 460 Views
I think the averages are averages. Kieran - 03/03/2010 01:14:41 AM 420 Views
Re: Crap RugbyPlayingAshaman - 05/03/2010 08:46:56 PM 396 Views
Re: Crap mogi67 - 07/03/2010 11:36:16 PM 364 Views
I love IQ tests. Fanatic-Templar - 08/03/2010 01:18:10 AM 364 Views
Re: Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil Shishka - 02/03/2010 05:30:43 PM 453 Views
Re: Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil Sidious - 02/03/2010 06:01:41 PM 454 Views
Re: Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil mogi67 - 07/03/2010 11:31:14 PM 400 Views
I'm not an expert on nihilism, but ... Shishka - 08/03/2010 05:22:33 PM 552 Views
I doubt that. Fanatic-Templar - 08/03/2010 01:21:32 AM 371 Views
Re: I doubt that. car'a'aman - 08/03/2010 12:41:43 PM 361 Views
Yep, I agree. Shishka - 08/03/2010 05:58:03 PM 451 Views
This ties in with his parallel to Lucifer. Kieran - 03/03/2010 12:57:37 AM 443 Views
Re: Not a question of intelligence. Rather, a different way of thinking... BlackAdder - 02/03/2010 07:22:58 PM 412 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature newyorkersedai - 02/03/2010 01:49:19 AM 485 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature car'a'aman - 02/03/2010 02:51:44 PM 430 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature newyorkersedai - 02/03/2010 07:31:32 PM 408 Views
Both of us are saying the same thing car'a'aman - 03/03/2010 01:46:57 PM 384 Views
sorry, took "evil" too literally and newyorkersedai - 03/03/2010 07:02:01 PM 362 Views
Found a great theory about Ishamael and his logic on theoryland car'a'aman - 02/03/2010 02:48:02 PM 741 Views
Nice Sidious - 02/03/2010 04:41:05 PM 443 Views
Impressive newyorkersedai - 02/03/2010 07:24:09 PM 430 Views
I have to disagree on one thing, at the very least... Fanatic-Templar - 08/03/2010 01:47:47 AM 422 Views
Re: I have to disagree on one thing, at the very least... car'a'aman - 08/03/2010 12:37:27 PM 371 Views
Yes, but Shai'tan himself is outside the Pattern. Fanatic-Templar - 08/03/2010 06:23:19 PM 369 Views
Re: Yes, but Shai'tan himself is outside the Pattern. car'a'aman - 09/03/2010 01:54:26 PM 358 Views
Because there is a Creator. Fanatic-Templar - 09/03/2010 05:57:16 PM 348 Views
faulty assumptions car'a'aman - 10/03/2010 05:05:23 AM 350 Views
Impossible. Fanatic-Templar - 10/03/2010 06:22:43 AM 348 Views
maybe an analogy will help car'a'aman - 10/03/2010 12:55:37 PM 762 Views
But therein lies the problem. Fanatic-Templar - 10/03/2010 04:58:42 PM 350 Views
your own argument is self defeating car'a'aman - 11/03/2010 08:10:36 AM 372 Views
No, that past was created after he was imprisoned. Fanatic-Templar - 11/03/2010 05:43:08 PM 377 Views
*sigh* I guess we will just have to agree to disagree then.... I still think your theory is flawed *NM* car'a'aman - 12/03/2010 05:11:10 AM 176 Views
Anyway I just realized this point is irrelevant to the original theory car'a'aman - 11/03/2010 08:14:20 AM 353 Views
Yes, I said that at the very beginning: *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 11/03/2010 05:44:19 PM 171 Views
Your reasons and mine for irrelevancy are different.. *NM* car'a'aman - 12/03/2010 05:12:52 AM 160 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/03/2010 10:43:16 PM 432 Views
I don't know if this has any basis in fact... Napoleon62 - 04/03/2010 02:44:26 AM 494 Views
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