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I have to disagree on one thing, at the very least... Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 08/03/2010 01:47:47 AM
2) Let us consider 1c, that the Wheel has seen infinite turnings (something implied by the books - there are 'neither beginnings nor endings to the turning of the WoT'. Also let us assume that 2a, ie that the DO can break free in principle. But in this case, HOWEVER low the probability of this happening in any particular Age, it WILL happen eventually given an infinite number of turnings.

The DO explicitly states as his intention to slay the Great Serpent, which can lead to either 3a - what Ishamael apparently believes, 3d - which the Forsaken and Darkfriends hope for i.e. eternal dominion. However, if the Wheel has been turning infinitely long, these possibilities are impossible. 3c is not possible for the same reasons.


The mistake here is that Shai'tan attempting to free himself is not part of the Pattern or the turning of the Wheel. Even if the Wheel has turned for infinite time, Shai'tan is outside the Pattern, he has no had an infinite amount of chances to break free.

Of course, this is ultimately irrelevant because that just means that whether the Wheel has infinite turnings or finite turnings leads to the same conclusions.
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter

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Ishamael's nature Sidious - 01/03/2010 05:27:48 PM 1911 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature Watcher - 01/03/2010 07:15:54 PM 928 Views
Sisyphus *NM* damookster - 02/03/2010 02:27:06 AM 328 Views
Not a question of intelligence. Rather, a different way of thinking... Shannow - 01/03/2010 07:23:37 PM 954 Views
I'd go with this - he lost sight of the forest for enumerating the trees. Cannoli - 01/03/2010 08:21:39 PM 1025 Views
I agree, except with your statement on what Ishamael's area of expertise is ... Shishka - 02/03/2010 03:17:13 PM 767 Views
Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil Sidious - 02/03/2010 04:38:06 PM 804 Views
Are you saying that philosophers are inherently more intelligent than other academics? Shannow - 02/03/2010 04:53:13 PM 694 Views
Maybe Sidious - 02/03/2010 06:00:20 PM 772 Views
Crap File Leader - 02/03/2010 08:58:12 PM 736 Views
That high IQ should make you realise that I am making the same point you are... Shannow - 02/03/2010 09:53:59 PM 720 Views
I think the averages are averages. Kieran - 03/03/2010 01:14:41 AM 671 Views
Re: Crap RugbyPlayingAshaman - 05/03/2010 08:46:56 PM 660 Views
Re: Crap mogi67 - 07/03/2010 11:36:16 PM 643 Views
I love IQ tests. Fanatic-Templar - 08/03/2010 01:18:10 AM 615 Views
Re: Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil Shishka - 02/03/2010 05:30:43 PM 742 Views
Re: Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil Sidious - 02/03/2010 06:01:41 PM 729 Views
Re: Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil mogi67 - 07/03/2010 11:31:14 PM 659 Views
I'm not an expert on nihilism, but ... Shishka - 08/03/2010 05:22:33 PM 807 Views
I doubt that. Fanatic-Templar - 08/03/2010 01:21:32 AM 636 Views
Re: I doubt that. car'a'aman - 08/03/2010 12:41:43 PM 615 Views
Yep, I agree. Shishka - 08/03/2010 05:58:03 PM 719 Views
This ties in with his parallel to Lucifer. Kieran - 03/03/2010 12:57:37 AM 716 Views
Re: Not a question of intelligence. Rather, a different way of thinking... BlackAdder - 02/03/2010 07:22:58 PM 687 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature newyorkersedai - 02/03/2010 01:49:19 AM 743 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature car'a'aman - 02/03/2010 02:51:44 PM 713 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature newyorkersedai - 02/03/2010 07:31:32 PM 664 Views
Both of us are saying the same thing car'a'aman - 03/03/2010 01:46:57 PM 650 Views
sorry, took "evil" too literally and newyorkersedai - 03/03/2010 07:02:01 PM 614 Views
Found a great theory about Ishamael and his logic on theoryland car'a'aman - 02/03/2010 02:48:02 PM 1169 Views
Nice Sidious - 02/03/2010 04:41:05 PM 681 Views
Impressive newyorkersedai - 02/03/2010 07:24:09 PM 676 Views
I have to disagree on one thing, at the very least... Fanatic-Templar - 08/03/2010 01:47:47 AM 673 Views
Re: I have to disagree on one thing, at the very least... car'a'aman - 08/03/2010 12:37:27 PM 627 Views
Yes, but Shai'tan himself is outside the Pattern. Fanatic-Templar - 08/03/2010 06:23:19 PM 682 Views
Re: Yes, but Shai'tan himself is outside the Pattern. car'a'aman - 09/03/2010 01:54:26 PM 681 Views
Because there is a Creator. Fanatic-Templar - 09/03/2010 05:57:16 PM 607 Views
faulty assumptions car'a'aman - 10/03/2010 05:05:23 AM 617 Views
Impossible. Fanatic-Templar - 10/03/2010 06:22:43 AM 622 Views
maybe an analogy will help car'a'aman - 10/03/2010 12:55:37 PM 1027 Views
But therein lies the problem. Fanatic-Templar - 10/03/2010 04:58:42 PM 592 Views
your own argument is self defeating car'a'aman - 11/03/2010 08:10:36 AM 633 Views
No, that past was created after he was imprisoned. Fanatic-Templar - 11/03/2010 05:43:08 PM 646 Views
*sigh* I guess we will just have to agree to disagree then.... I still think your theory is flawed *NM* car'a'aman - 12/03/2010 05:11:10 AM 283 Views
Anyway I just realized this point is irrelevant to the original theory car'a'aman - 11/03/2010 08:14:20 AM 598 Views
Yes, I said that at the very beginning: *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 11/03/2010 05:44:19 PM 284 Views
Your reasons and mine for irrelevancy are different.. *NM* car'a'aman - 12/03/2010 05:12:52 AM 271 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/03/2010 10:43:16 PM 700 Views
I don't know if this has any basis in fact... Napoleon62 - 04/03/2010 02:44:26 AM 836 Views
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