Not that I don't think it is well-written, I'm just in no real position to judge.
But it is a story about a family from Jerusalem. They split up shortly after arriving in the New World, forming two civilizations. They write their history, and up until a point it is written directly by them. Then, we are told that from here on out, the writings are abridgments of many other documents and records. The descendants then meet up with another completely separate civilization that came from Jerusalem, who have found the writings of another much more ancient civilization, but are unable to translate it. We are then given more of their history, of their many wars and struggles. We follow them up to ~400 AD. Then the person who has abridged most of the book passes it on to his Son, who then abridges and inserts the records found by the second group from Jerusalem, the records of the very ancient civilization. Then, the son writes a few words, and includes letters and other things from his father and his time.
There are a lot of different authors. And they seem to have different interests. When Nephi (the very first) writes about wars and contentions, he simply states that there were wars and contentions. When Mormon (the one who abridged much of the record) writes of war, he is much more descriptive, focusing heavily on what was going on. Considering he was a general for his people, his interest in war is understandable. His son, who is one of the last survivors of his people, abridges the records of another people who killed themselves off. Many of the authors in the latter part of the beginning write almost nothing, save that they received the record, and passed it on.
It's too complex for a dim-witted farmboy.
Please, lets keep this a polite discussion. You don't agree with me. I know that!
Fundamental and baseline according to the First Ecumenical Council . Fundamental and baseline according to you, even.
We do not simply talk about Christ and feel he's important. We believe he is the one and only way to salvation. That his Atonement is the greatest event in the history of everything. That he wants each of us to follow him, and that he loves everyone with a pure love we can hardly fathom. He is the Son of God, and the Only Begotten in the flesh. He is not simply some great moral teacher, or a guy with good ideas.
Yes, we believe that. But we do not believe that there is a god greater than God. There are no other gods we can or should pray to. I don't know how all that works. But for this universe and creation, there is One God.
Hebrews 1:1 says that he spoke to prophets. Other verses say he sent his Son, who is greater than the prophets. And then... nothing. Nothing says that no more prophets are needed.
Joseph Smith did not deny Jesus is the Christ. He did not ask anyone to follow gods other than God. I've never heard of those prophecies you talk of.
What is "my" baptism then?
It is not a contradiction. It is Another Testament. I have not read the entire Bible, something I do need to do. But I have read much of it, and most of the New Testament. I do not see that I am "violating almost everything that it says". Honestly, they mesh quite well.
Congratulations, you have managed a verse.
Yes, I did just skip the latter part of your post. I don't see the point when discussion hits this level of hostility. This is the point where we settle down and yell at each other. I will keep those books in mind.
I will comment on one part:
This is wrong. He had done nothing to make them a "rightly" angry mob. Angry mobs have stoned and killed prophets before, and they are not "right".
But it is a story about a family from Jerusalem. They split up shortly after arriving in the New World, forming two civilizations. They write their history, and up until a point it is written directly by them. Then, we are told that from here on out, the writings are abridgments of many other documents and records. The descendants then meet up with another completely separate civilization that came from Jerusalem, who have found the writings of another much more ancient civilization, but are unable to translate it. We are then given more of their history, of their many wars and struggles. We follow them up to ~400 AD. Then the person who has abridged most of the book passes it on to his Son, who then abridges and inserts the records found by the second group from Jerusalem, the records of the very ancient civilization. Then, the son writes a few words, and includes letters and other things from his father and his time.
There are a lot of different authors. And they seem to have different interests. When Nephi (the very first) writes about wars and contentions, he simply states that there were wars and contentions. When Mormon (the one who abridged much of the record) writes of war, he is much more descriptive, focusing heavily on what was going on. Considering he was a general for his people, his interest in war is understandable. His son, who is one of the last survivors of his people, abridges the records of another people who killed themselves off. Many of the authors in the latter part of the beginning write almost nothing, save that they received the record, and passed it on.
It's too complex for a dim-witted farmboy.
I will strive to ignore the taste of having thrown up in my mouth and continue, however.
Please, lets keep this a polite discussion. You don't agree with me. I know that!
Let's stick to some of the major disputes I have with what you wrote:
1. The fundamental, baseline requirement for being Christian is generally a belief in the Trinity, that God is one being in three Persons - Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and that Christ is God made man, who suffered, died and rose from the dead in an act of salvation. If you do not believe that, YOU ARE NOT CHRISTIANS. You can talk about Jesus and feel he's important, but Muslims, Baha'i and other groups like Jehovah's Witnesses do that. It doesn't make you Christian.
Fundamental and baseline according to the First Ecumenical Council . Fundamental and baseline according to you, even.
We do not simply talk about Christ and feel he's important. We believe he is the one and only way to salvation. That his Atonement is the greatest event in the history of everything. That he wants each of us to follow him, and that he loves everyone with a pure love we can hardly fathom. He is the Son of God, and the Only Begotten in the flesh. He is not simply some great moral teacher, or a guy with good ideas.
2. You believe that God was as man is, and man will be as God is. This directly contradicts Isaiah, where God says there are no other gods. This is a rejection of the Trinity and a rejection of the Bible.
Yes, we believe that. But we do not believe that there is a god greater than God. There are no other gods we can or should pray to. I don't know how all that works. But for this universe and creation, there is One God.
3. You ask where prophecy has been made obsolete. Hebrews 1:1. Furthermore, the Bible tells us to be on watch for false prophets and antichrists, and Joe Smith was definitely a false prophet. False prophets and antichrists deny Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22). We know a false prophet in two ways: (1) he asks us to follow gods other than God (Deuteronomy 13:1) or (2) if any prophecy he makes does not come true (Deuteronomy 18:21). Joe Smith said the US government would collapse before 1900, he said that there were people on the moon and a whole bunch of other things that were lies. He presumed to translate an Egyptian funerary scroll as a "Book of Moses", which was a lie and a fabrication. He also preaches polytheism in a convenient veil of "the Godhead", which is not the same as God the Father, who is not the only God in Joe Smith's little fantasy world. By either of those standards he would have been stoned to death under Biblical law.
Hebrews 1:1 says that he spoke to prophets. Other verses say he sent his Son, who is greater than the prophets. And then... nothing. Nothing says that no more prophets are needed.
Joseph Smith did not deny Jesus is the Christ. He did not ask anyone to follow gods other than God. I've never heard of those prophecies you talk of.
4. Your baptism is not a baptism for the forgiveness of sins, which is what the Biblical baptism is all about: "Confessing their sins, they were baptized by [John] in the Jordan River" (Matthew 3:6).
What is "my" baptism then?
5. The Book of Mormon is a direct contradiction of Galatians 1:9. Not only that, but you have refuted or ignored so much of the Bible that there is almost no point in having it sit next to the Book of Mormon. You should try reading the entire Bible, if only to realize that you are violating almost everything that it says.
It is not a contradiction. It is Another Testament. I have not read the entire Bible, something I do need to do. But I have read much of it, and most of the New Testament. I do not see that I am "violating almost everything that it says". Honestly, they mesh quite well.
6. Joe Smith was dim-witted. His Book of Mormon is a terrible farce of a book, written with no skill, repeating phrases from the King James Bible and garbling nearly all of them, and so riddled with errors and sentence fragments that it's been revised and revised and revised. It doesn't take a genius to write the Book of Mormon. Here, let me show you:
And it came to pass, that Jophim said to Jophiriah, his son, "Take thee thine oxen and scrumbles and cattle and goest thou unto the land of the Morriphi, and when thou arrivest, tell them that the LORD sends His wrath upon them, and take thou then their land from them. And it came to pass that Jophiriah took his oxen and scrumbles and cattle and went up to the land of the Morriphi, and he found there Cordiah, high priest of the Morriphi...
Congratulations, you have managed a verse.
Yes, I did just skip the latter part of your post. I don't see the point when discussion hits this level of hostility. This is the point where we settle down and yell at each other. I will keep those books in mind.
I will comment on one part:
...All the way up until a rightly angry mob took justice into their own hands...
This is wrong. He had done nothing to make them a "rightly" angry mob. Angry mobs have stoned and killed prophets before, and they are not "right".
"And it breaks my heart to look around, and see the unimpressed; who can't believe the emperor is dressed"~Fastball
2-7-1
2-7-1
Mormons
- 03/10/2011 05:46:10 AM
2656 Views
Questions.
- 03/10/2011 11:13:25 AM
1391 Views
Re: Questions.
- 03/10/2011 01:28:28 PM
1353 Views
I don't understand why they would be called drinks, if they were not meant to be drunk.
- 03/10/2011 03:28:48 PM
1271 Views
Why did I look up what Quorn is? I didn't need to know that. *NM*
- 03/10/2011 02:04:20 PM
745 Views
....did we just get door-to-door'd...ONLINE?!?! *NM*
- 03/10/2011 11:34:19 AM
689 Views
Nope.
- 04/10/2011 01:32:43 AM
1224 Views
there's no real point to it
- 04/10/2011 02:37:24 AM
2249 Views
- 04/10/2011 02:37:24 AM
2249 Views
We could use an evil cackling smilie, we do have some other evil ones




- 04/10/2011 02:49:12 AM
1199 Views




- 04/10/2011 02:49:12 AM
1199 Views
Do you ever giggle at the name "Moroni?"
- 03/10/2011 11:39:55 AM
1307 Views
There are Mormon literalists? Seriously? *NM*
- 03/10/2011 03:02:18 PM
680 Views
In fairness, I wonder the same about Christian literalists.
*NM*
- 03/10/2011 07:57:19 PM
750 Views
*NM*
- 03/10/2011 07:57:19 PM
750 Views
Yeah, but if you're gonna believe absurdities...
- 03/10/2011 09:02:32 PM
1296 Views
Are you trying to suggest that "Reformed" or some other brand of scientology is plausible?
- 04/10/2011 04:28:40 PM
1243 Views
- 04/10/2011 04:28:40 PM
1243 Views
Actually, no. It'd be like laughing at... Hosea. Or Nemeiah. It's just an old name.
- 04/10/2011 12:30:57 AM
1194 Views
I know they don't have multiple wives anymore, so no misconception there
- 03/10/2011 01:23:50 PM
1221 Views
Question: Why are you such a faggot? *NM*
- 03/10/2011 02:23:45 PM
593 Views
Answer: because it's the only way he could return your burning love for him.
- 03/10/2011 03:24:23 PM
815 Views
Better a faggot than a fuckwad. Cheers fuckwad!
*NM*
- 04/10/2011 01:27:20 AM
704 Views
Re: You embarrass yourself. *NM*
- 04/10/2011 01:56:02 AM
596 Views
I'll tell you whats embarresing...
- 04/10/2011 02:08:02 AM
921 Views
That is hilarious.
- 04/10/2011 03:10:50 AM
819 Views
Goodness..
- 04/10/2011 03:20:30 AM
763 Views
Re:
- 04/10/2011 03:28:25 AM
778 Views
OK, you need to delete the "Re:" You're using it incorrectly
- 04/10/2011 01:55:53 PM
736 Views
Re: Also.
- 04/10/2011 02:08:15 PM
780 Views
you are still using it incorrectly. *NM*
- 04/10/2011 02:09:48 PM
712 Views
He's doing it on purpose though.
- 04/10/2011 03:31:39 PM
847 Views
Considering that "CaptainHammer" is LDS, I'd rather doubt he's gay.
- 04/10/2011 02:32:56 AM
707 Views
Re: Considering that "CaptainHammer" is LDS, I'd rather doubt he's gay.
- 04/10/2011 02:37:41 AM
731 Views
*sigh* to all of you above....
- 04/10/2011 03:06:21 AM
759 Views
Please explain why you think we should consider you Christians.
- 03/10/2011 04:33:06 PM
1380 Views
you know, that does make me wonder though
- 03/10/2011 04:58:21 PM
1256 Views
We're not as immovable as we are sometimes portrayed.
- 03/10/2011 05:27:17 PM
1229 Views
That concept is alien to the Christian theological understanding, however.
- 03/10/2011 10:18:55 PM
1248 Views
I understand what both you and Danny are saying
- 04/10/2011 12:19:57 AM
1192 Views
The absolute best part about your post (plus the best thing about Mo's/LDS's)
- 03/10/2011 09:02:17 PM
1218 Views
We believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior of all mankind, and the only way back to God.
- 04/10/2011 01:29:30 AM
1315 Views
If you think the Book of Mormon was well-written, there is really little left to discuss.
- 04/10/2011 03:57:08 AM
1483 Views
I never said well-written, I said complex.
- 04/10/2011 07:04:24 AM
1355 Views
Re: If you think the Book of Mormon was well-written, there is really little left to discuss.
- 04/10/2011 07:24:27 AM
1464 Views
Woah nelly.
- 04/10/2011 10:04:33 AM
1261 Views
I have to "Wow" as well... racist much?
- 04/10/2011 01:52:48 PM
1181 Views
Re: I have to "Wow" as well... racist much?
- 04/10/2011 04:42:47 PM
1270 Views
oh well that makes it all better...
- 04/10/2011 04:54:14 PM
1274 Views
Yikes. Even for religion, that's more than a little crazy.
- 04/10/2011 03:47:56 PM
1254 Views
I don't think there's much of a difference in crazy as opposed to other more mainstream religions.
- 04/10/2011 07:08:06 PM
1219 Views
A difference exists if only in continued unabashed affirmation of a rather distasteful doctrine.
- 04/10/2011 11:06:51 PM
1215 Views
Then why can't women be priests? Or enter the altar? The curse on Eve is very much in place. *NM*
- 05/10/2011 12:27:04 AM
655 Views
Right now I am not making an absolute statement but a relative one.
- 05/10/2011 08:37:50 PM
1029 Views
Oh, you didn't know? Joe Smith said black people are cursed for following Satan.
- 05/10/2011 01:10:35 AM
1224 Views
I guess this is a variation on Hams punishment; Ghav, at least should know better than to be shocked
- 04/10/2011 04:13:59 PM
1154 Views
it's not that we're surprised because it's "novel"
- 04/10/2011 04:19:16 PM
1197 Views
It is not NECESSARILY racist.
- 04/10/2011 04:39:33 PM
1235 Views
Sure, except ...
- 04/10/2011 04:50:53 PM
1250 Views
Well, the funny thing is Christian doctrine presupposes everyone, along with their ancestors...
- 04/10/2011 06:31:13 PM
1151 Views
It it is nigh impossible to be a "non-Nicene Christian."
- 04/10/2011 03:12:06 PM
1280 Views
I think we've had this discussion before.
- 06/10/2011 05:54:39 PM
1262 Views
Arianism is a bad comparison for arguing LDS=Christian.
- 06/10/2011 11:45:36 PM
1153 Views
- 06/10/2011 11:45:36 PM
1153 Views
Wikipedia confirms what I already thought: you're off base with the monophysitism.
- 07/10/2011 12:06:40 AM
1479 Views
I had not realized it was that late, but used it only as an example of multitudinous controversies.
- 07/10/2011 01:03:56 AM
1600 Views
Monophysites, miaphysites, monothelites, etc. certainly accept the consubstantiality of God/Christ
- 07/10/2011 11:58:05 AM
1185 Views
Virtually everyone has a more sound Christology than Mormons.
- 07/10/2011 06:45:45 PM
1211 Views
Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
- 08/10/2011 05:30:38 PM
1219 Views
I can see that with the Monothelites (can see their appeal, in fact,) but not Monophysites.
- 07/10/2011 09:43:27 PM
1150 Views
Tempting as it is to prove Joel wrong (since he so frequently is), I need to take issue with this.
- 07/10/2011 06:59:13 PM
1229 Views
I was just saying there were competing views.
- 07/10/2011 07:49:26 PM
1614 Views
Oh, there were definitely competing views, just not competing Christian views.
- 07/10/2011 09:26:22 PM
1128 Views
That sounds really nice.
- 04/10/2011 06:38:29 PM
1230 Views
Why wait though?
- 05/10/2011 12:12:21 AM
1389 Views
So that Vivien can avoid reading and thinking about the stuff that you just wrote. *NM*
- 05/10/2011 12:28:23 AM
626 Views
I really want an answer from a mormon.
- 05/10/2011 08:48:49 PM
1235 Views
Good luck with that; just because I can see no explanation save that I offered does not preclude one
- 06/10/2011 07:03:50 AM
1114 Views
Yeah, that's what I thought.
- 06/10/2011 05:43:57 PM
1159 Views
Oh no you idn't... *waves finger and weaves head*
- 04/10/2011 03:53:07 AM
1028 Views
....i don't know what you look like
- 04/10/2011 03:54:56 AM
1153 Views
Shoot, my Mick Jagger strut is way better than my angry hispanic girl head/finger bob and weave.
*NM*
- 05/10/2011 04:58:53 AM
752 Views
*NM*
- 05/10/2011 04:58:53 AM
752 Views
Off-Topic
- 05/10/2011 01:14:16 AM
1151 Views
Hmm
- 05/10/2011 02:03:13 AM
1337 Views
True
- 05/10/2011 02:13:00 AM
1138 Views
I think of Protestantism in terms similar to a Xerox copy.
- 05/10/2011 04:57:42 AM
1248 Views
Re: Off-Topic
- 05/10/2011 02:56:50 AM
1364 Views
Uhh...
- 05/10/2011 03:08:49 AM
1122 Views
The people at the Nicene Council and the other councils were not prophets.
- 05/10/2011 04:59:50 AM
1271 Views
Danny is right, it is a pretty tough crowd, but better tough than weak and whitewashed.
- 04/10/2011 04:02:16 AM
1201 Views


