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Yes, that is kind of the problem. Joel Send a noteboard - 06/10/2011 12:13:27 AM
I choose to be generous and interpret your subject line to mean "devout Mormons are perfectly sane" rather than a return to "all religious people are nuts." Turn the other cheek, and all that stuff. ;)


Why not interpret is as I said it- the mormon faith is not much crazier than the other mainstream religions. If you say that mainstream christianity is sane, then you don't have much to stand trying to call the mormon faith nuts. You can just as easily interpret that as "devout mormons as perfectly sane" or as "all religious people are nuts". Except that I'm not making statements about people, but about organized religions.


I am not yelling at the Mormons at all. It should be clear that I'm not picking on them specifically.

Either Mormon theology is perfectly rational or all theology is irrational; there is no middle ground. I strongly disagree with that position, whether it reflects a condescending tolerance of Mormonism along with all other religious (and thus crazy, by definition) beliefs or an illogical and untenable assertion that Mormonism is rational despite its multiple, fundamental and serious internal inconsistencies.

We are not talking about a belief system that says implausible or fantastic things, not even one that says black is white, but one that says black is white AND BLACK. Calling that rational is simply incorrect; calling it legitimate because we accept all other religions despite them being equally irrational is incorrect and insulting.
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Mormons CaptainHammer - 03/10/2011 05:46:10 AM 2739 Views
Questions. Kuke - 03/10/2011 11:13:25 AM 1465 Views
Ooh! Ooh! Kuke - 03/10/2011 11:18:38 AM 1316 Views
I don't watch it. Gher - 04/10/2011 01:34:53 AM 1366 Views
Re: Questions. CaptainHammer - 03/10/2011 01:28:28 PM 1434 Views
Re: Questions. CaptainHammer - 03/10/2011 01:31:13 PM 1277 Views
I don't understand why they would be called drinks, if they were not meant to be drunk. aerocontrols - 03/10/2011 03:28:48 PM 1352 Views
Why did I look up what Quorn is? I didn't need to know that. *NM* beetnemesis - 03/10/2011 02:04:20 PM 789 Views
Wyld Stallyns!! aerocontrols - 03/10/2011 03:26:54 PM 1215 Views
STATION! *NM* Two Wongs - 03/10/2011 11:00:35 PM 713 Views
Re: One of the best replies, ever, on the internet. *NM* Gaps - 06/10/2011 02:43:07 AM 758 Views
....did we just get door-to-door'd...ONLINE?!?! *NM* LadyLorraine - 03/10/2011 11:34:19 AM 738 Views
Nope. Gher - 04/10/2011 01:32:43 AM 1298 Views
there's no real point to it LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 02:37:24 AM 2321 Views
We could use an evil cackling smilie, we do have some other evil ones Isaac - 04/10/2011 02:49:12 AM 1270 Views
wasn't going to argue... *NM* LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 02:57:00 AM 728 Views
Do you ever giggle at the name "Moroni?" Ghavrel - 03/10/2011 11:39:55 AM 1387 Views
There are Mormon literalists? Seriously? *NM* Legolas - 03/10/2011 03:02:18 PM 730 Views
In fairness, I wonder the same about Christian literalists. *NM* Ghavrel - 03/10/2011 07:57:19 PM 792 Views
Yeah, but if you're gonna believe absurdities... Legolas - 03/10/2011 09:02:32 PM 1374 Views
Are you trying to suggest that "Reformed" or some other brand of scientology is plausible? Joel - 04/10/2011 04:28:40 PM 1318 Views
Actually, no. It'd be like laughing at... Hosea. Or Nemeiah. It's just an old name. Gher - 04/10/2011 12:30:57 AM 1265 Views
I know they don't have multiple wives anymore, so no misconception there ironclad - 03/10/2011 01:23:50 PM 1295 Views
There are Fundamentalist "Mormons" who do... Danu - 03/10/2011 11:32:56 PM 1198 Views
Don't get me wrong by the way, I've met wonderful Mormons ironclad - 04/10/2011 12:22:03 PM 1272 Views
Question: Why are you such a faggot? *NM* Urza - 03/10/2011 02:23:45 PM 639 Views
Answer: because it's the only way he could return your burning love for him. Nate - 03/10/2011 03:24:23 PM 857 Views
Oh dont be such a fuddy duddy. Urza - 03/10/2011 10:42:06 PM 854 Views
Better a faggot than a fuckwad. Cheers fuckwad! *NM* everynametaken - 04/10/2011 01:27:20 AM 751 Views
Well, I suppose you'ld be the one to know. *NM* Urza - 04/10/2011 01:54:35 AM 690 Views
Really? You really just pulled a "takes one to know one"? *NM* Kronin al'Sulc - 04/10/2011 04:19:22 PM 807 Views
Re: You embarrass yourself. *NM* Gaps - 04/10/2011 01:56:02 AM 639 Views
I'll tell you whats embarresing... Urza - 04/10/2011 02:08:02 AM 963 Views
That is hilarious. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:10:50 AM 858 Views
Goodness.. Urza - 04/10/2011 03:20:30 AM 802 Views
Re: Nate - 04/10/2011 03:28:25 AM 821 Views
You know, my mother had a saying. Urza - 04/10/2011 03:39:32 AM 860 Views
I think it's safe to say ... Nate - 04/10/2011 04:09:17 AM 768 Views
I'm not sure which would be sadder... Legolas - 04/10/2011 11:32:55 AM 908 Views
*NM* ironclad - 04/10/2011 12:19:01 PM 722 Views
Re: You flatter me. *NM* Gaps - 04/10/2011 01:31:01 PM 766 Views
OK, you need to delete the "Re:" You're using it incorrectly beetnemesis - 04/10/2011 01:55:53 PM 791 Views
"Re" doesn't have to mean "reply", it can also mean "regarding". Legolas - 04/10/2011 02:01:31 PM 788 Views
Re: Re: Gaps - 04/10/2011 02:06:58 PM 820 Views
Re: Re: Stephen - 04/10/2011 02:12:57 PM 781 Views
Re: Also. Gaps - 04/10/2011 02:08:15 PM 825 Views
you are still using it incorrectly. *NM* LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 02:09:48 PM 758 Views
He's doing it on purpose though. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:31:39 PM 890 Views
Re: Yeah, it's just a shtick... Gaps - 04/10/2011 03:47:17 PM 800 Views
Those were the good old days. Nate - 04/10/2011 04:02:33 PM 803 Views
*NM* TaskmasterJack - 04/10/2011 10:02:30 PM 702 Views
I agree, it's driving me nuts *NM* ironclad - 04/10/2011 02:36:45 PM 687 Views
That's not quite right, actually. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:25:54 PM 719 Views
Disagree. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 04/10/2011 10:04:09 PM 746 Views
Considering that "CaptainHammer" is LDS, I'd rather doubt he's gay. Great Lord of Chaos - 04/10/2011 02:32:56 AM 759 Views
Re: Considering that "CaptainHammer" is LDS, I'd rather doubt he's gay. Urza - 04/10/2011 02:37:41 AM 775 Views
Heh. Oh, Ryan. Kronin al'Sulc - 04/10/2011 04:36:43 PM 911 Views
*sigh* to all of you above.... LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 03:06:21 AM 809 Views
I thought that was "Do not talk about /b/"? *NM* Great Lord of Chaos - 04/10/2011 03:12:52 AM 799 Views
i don't know, but if THAT is the first rule... LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 03:41:20 AM 761 Views
Please explain why you think we should consider you Christians. Tom - 03/10/2011 04:33:06 PM 1463 Views
you know, that does make me wonder though LadyLorraine - 03/10/2011 04:58:21 PM 1335 Views
We're not as immovable as we are sometimes portrayed. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 05:27:17 PM 1311 Views
"Even Christ didn't do that"? I can't agree. Legolas - 03/10/2011 09:00:34 PM 1326 Views
I conceded your last point. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 10:14:28 PM 1170 Views
Point of Anal Retentive Dissent: Joel - 04/10/2011 03:54:00 PM 1246 Views
That concept is alien to the Christian theological understanding, however. Tom - 03/10/2011 10:18:55 PM 1331 Views
I understand what both you and Danny are saying LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 12:19:57 AM 1269 Views
Oh, that's very simple Tom - 04/10/2011 04:02:24 AM 1323 Views
I honestly don't know what it would take. Dannymac - 04/10/2011 07:41:55 AM 1258 Views
thank you, both of you LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 01:46:05 PM 1258 Views
I love the Nicene Creed. It is such an excellent encapsulation. Rebekah - 03/10/2011 06:07:53 PM 1342 Views
Agreed. Joel - 04/10/2011 04:44:49 PM 1223 Views
The absolute best part about your post (plus the best thing about Mo's/LDS's) Jeordam - 03/10/2011 09:02:17 PM 1288 Views
Glad you enjoyed it Tom - 03/10/2011 10:10:39 PM 1396 Views
Though they can cause interesting changes in patterns. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 10:16:55 PM 1349 Views
We believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior of all mankind, and the only way back to God. Gher - 04/10/2011 01:29:30 AM 1397 Views
If you think the Book of Mormon was well-written, there is really little left to discuss. Tom - 04/10/2011 03:57:08 AM 1559 Views
I never said well-written, I said complex. Gher - 04/10/2011 07:04:24 AM 1439 Views
Ignore facts all you want to. Tom - 05/10/2011 01:07:35 AM 1326 Views
Re: If you think the Book of Mormon was well-written, there is really little left to discuss. CaptainHammer - 04/10/2011 07:24:27 AM 1551 Views
Woah nelly. Ghavrel - 04/10/2011 10:04:33 AM 1355 Views
I have to "Wow" as well... racist much? LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 01:52:48 PM 1252 Views
Re: I have to "Wow" as well... racist much? CaptainHammer - 04/10/2011 04:42:47 PM 1345 Views
oh well that makes it all better... LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 04:54:14 PM 1356 Views
Exactly ironclad - 04/10/2011 06:00:54 PM 1264 Views
Was the twin banging and the gay wedding the same event? Joel - 04/10/2011 06:36:03 PM 1352 Views
Yikes. Even for religion, that's more than a little crazy. Nate - 04/10/2011 03:47:56 PM 1329 Views
I don't think there's much of a difference in crazy as opposed to other more mainstream religions. Vivien - 04/10/2011 07:08:06 PM 1297 Views
A difference exists if only in continued unabashed affirmation of a rather distasteful doctrine. Joel - 04/10/2011 11:06:51 PM 1295 Views
Then why can't women be priests? Or enter the altar? The curse on Eve is very much in place. *NM* Aeryn - 05/10/2011 12:27:04 AM 702 Views
OK, within the Mormon context I can see that point. Joel - 05/10/2011 12:33:52 AM 1237 Views
They can in quite a few denominations. *NM* Ghavrel - 05/10/2011 06:12:35 AM 740 Views
Whoops! You meant in LDS specifically. My mistake. *NM* Ghavrel - 05/10/2011 06:14:05 AM 725 Views
Right now I am not making an absolute statement but a relative one. Vivien - 05/10/2011 08:37:50 PM 1110 Views
Yes, that is kind of the problem. Joel - 06/10/2011 12:13:27 AM 1250 Views
Oh, you didn't know? Joe Smith said black people are cursed for following Satan. Tom - 05/10/2011 01:10:35 AM 1299 Views
I guess this is a variation on Hams punishment; Ghav, at least should know better than to be shocked Joel - 04/10/2011 04:13:59 PM 1239 Views
it's not that we're surprised because it's "novel" LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 04:19:16 PM 1274 Views
It is not NECESSARILY racist. Joel - 04/10/2011 04:39:33 PM 1311 Views
Sure, except ... Nate - 04/10/2011 04:50:53 PM 1332 Views
Well, the funny thing is Christian doctrine presupposes everyone, along with their ancestors... Joel - 04/10/2011 06:31:13 PM 1227 Views
Yeah, circular logic is fun, isn't it? Tom - 05/10/2011 01:09:25 AM 1309 Views
It it is nigh impossible to be a "non-Nicene Christian." Joel - 04/10/2011 03:12:06 PM 1375 Views
I think we've had this discussion before. Gher - 06/10/2011 05:54:39 PM 1332 Views
Arianism is a bad comparison for arguing LDS=Christian. Joel - 06/10/2011 11:45:36 PM 1245 Views
Wikipedia confirms what I already thought: you're off base with the monophysitism. Legolas - 07/10/2011 12:06:40 AM 1555 Views
I had not realized it was that late, but used it only as an example of multitudinous controversies. Joel - 07/10/2011 01:03:56 AM 1683 Views
Monophysites, miaphysites, monothelites, etc. certainly accept the consubstantiality of God/Christ Larry - 07/10/2011 11:58:05 AM 1286 Views
Virtually everyone has a more sound Christology than Mormons. Tom - 07/10/2011 06:45:45 PM 1291 Views
Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. Joel - 08/10/2011 05:30:38 PM 1290 Views
I can see that with the Monothelites (can see their appeal, in fact,) but not Monophysites. Joel - 07/10/2011 09:43:27 PM 1246 Views
Tempting as it is to prove Joel wrong (since he so frequently is), I need to take issue with this. Tom - 07/10/2011 06:59:13 PM 1319 Views
I was just saying there were competing views. Gher - 07/10/2011 07:49:26 PM 1686 Views
Oh, there were definitely competing views, just not competing Christian views. Joel - 07/10/2011 09:26:22 PM 1202 Views
That sounds really nice. Vivien - 04/10/2011 06:38:29 PM 1306 Views
Why wait though? Joel - 05/10/2011 12:12:21 AM 1482 Views
So that Vivien can avoid reading and thinking about the stuff that you just wrote. *NM* Aeryn - 05/10/2011 12:28:23 AM 668 Views
Ack, not reading and thinking111 Joel - 05/10/2011 12:36:11 AM 1255 Views
I really want an answer from a mormon. Vivien - 05/10/2011 08:48:49 PM 1310 Views
Good luck with that; just because I can see no explanation save that I offered does not preclude one Joel - 06/10/2011 07:03:50 AM 1197 Views
Yeah, that's what I thought. Gher - 06/10/2011 05:43:57 PM 1251 Views
I'm satisfied by that explanation. Vivien - 06/10/2011 08:51:15 PM 1476 Views
Re: I'm satisfied by that explanation. Gher - 07/10/2011 07:45:29 PM 1284 Views
Oh no you idn't... *waves finger and weaves head* everynametaken - 04/10/2011 03:53:07 AM 1103 Views
....i don't know what you look like LadyLorraine - 04/10/2011 03:54:56 AM 1226 Views
Shoot, my Mick Jagger strut is way better than my angry hispanic girl head/finger bob and weave. *NM* everynametaken - 05/10/2011 04:58:53 AM 805 Views
Took the words right out of my mouth, repeatedly. Joel - 04/10/2011 12:49:13 PM 1463 Views
Off-Topic Larry - 05/10/2011 01:14:16 AM 1227 Views
Hmm Tom - 05/10/2011 02:03:13 AM 1419 Views
True Larry - 05/10/2011 02:13:00 AM 1211 Views
I think of Protestantism in terms similar to a Xerox copy. Tom - 05/10/2011 04:57:42 AM 1336 Views
Maybe Xeroxes of abridged texts and dumbed down theology Larry - 06/10/2011 02:26:58 AM 1416 Views
I like that analogy - an echo chamber! *NM* Tom - 08/10/2011 10:44:04 PM 725 Views
Re: Off-Topic CaptainHammer - 05/10/2011 02:56:50 AM 1437 Views
Uhh... Larry - 05/10/2011 03:08:49 AM 1199 Views
The people at the Nicene Council and the other councils were not prophets. CaptainHammer - 05/10/2011 04:59:50 AM 1349 Views
And you know that because... why, again? Joel - 05/10/2011 07:13:53 AM 1310 Views
Tough Crowd. Dannymac - 03/10/2011 04:44:31 PM 1379 Views
No questions. Have a nice day. TaskmasterJack - 03/10/2011 11:40:58 PM 1240 Views
Why don't they have anything approaching a formal theology? *NM* Dan - 04/10/2011 03:58:16 AM 795 Views
Re: Why don't they have anything approaching a formal theology? CaptainHammer - 04/10/2011 05:23:12 PM 1364 Views
Danny is right, it is a pretty tough crowd, but better tough than weak and whitewashed. everynametaken - 04/10/2011 04:02:16 AM 1283 Views
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