If we are baptized in this life, the ordinance is done. If we are not, it can be done for us by proxy.
This is one doctrine that has always seemed so logical to me, I never have quite understood the attention and debate it stirs. Christ came to save all men. What about all the people who have never even heard his name? There are still people today who do not know anything about Christ. They have not been baptized, but it's not because they rejected Christ. Are they just out of luck?
Instead, we believe that they can learn the gospel in the afterlife, and can accept it. We perform their baptism for them, and they can choose to accept it or not. But it means it is their choice, not something beyond their control because of circumstances.
I really like this part of your religion. Not that it would help me, but still. This is good.
But then- shouldn't this be an argument *against* missionaries? What if you fail to convince someone and that person rejects Christ in this life. It seems like you'd be able to be more convincing in the afterlife.
But a person must have a clear chance to accept it. There isn't any clear definition what that means, because it's different for every person. If the missionaries knock, and get a door slammed in their face, it likely doesn't mean the person's chance is up. They didn't know enough to reject it. So if the missionaries "fail to convince someone" like you said, it doesn't necessarily mean they're out of luck.
And though it does seem like it'd be impossible to not believe the gospel if you are actually in the afterlife, it will happen. Doesn't make much sense, but I don't think our mortal minds are that good at comprehending non-mortal existence.
And then, beside all that, living the gospel is the key to true joy. It's the difference of helping people find happiness now, as opposed to up to 100 years later on..
Those are really good answers. Both that telling someone now doesn't necessarily use up their chance, and that you want to tell them now because you want to and because you believe they will be happier and more fulfilled in this life as a result, regardless of the afterlife.
It might be a personal question, but why do you think this? I don't care what you've done. You're never too unworthy to pray to God. You can always be forgiven if you are sincere in asking. Please don't think you are beyond help.
Oh Gosh it's not about what I've done and my worth. It's almost funny, that's almost exactly backwards. I was christian for a fairly decent period of time and I made a choice to turn away from Christ, as you'd say it. Not a decision made lightly or suddenly.
My behavior didn't change, it's not like a story from a teen bible study group where the lapsed christian uses drugs and risky behavior to fill the void in his/her soul. Couldn't be further from the truth. In fact, I've never ever tried any recreational drugs. I have drank alcohol but not much and not very often. I almost never drank in high school and rarely in college and now I'm probably in the heyday of my drinking days but realistically I have alcohol an average of once a month.
Hahaha, I just googled what else mormons don't allow and guess what- I would have no problem with a coffee ban because I don't drink it anyway. I'm also not gay so I'd have no problem with not being gay. I have had premarital sex but I mean, I'm 25- if I hadn't at this point it would certainly be my new year's resolution to fix that. Oh! Also- I almost never curse and I don't like it when I'm around people that do. If I feel comfortable and I want to spend more time with someone who curses a lot I'll ask him or her to try to curse less. [And I dislike it for many reasons- for one thing people don't realize you're angry or upset unless you curse but that's a whole other topic]
Not that I think any of the above define a person's "worth"! I've only addressed those points because that's what came up with google. The point is, it's not about anything I've done that makes me unworthy or scared. The point is I simply don't believe. I just cannot be sincere in praying to God or asking for forgiveness/help. If it's real- if there is an all powerful God out there- I don't love him with any part of my heart.
Numerous edits because I tried to fix the quote thing and then I thought of the cursing thing.
This message last edited by Vivien on 06/10/2011 at 09:12:07 PM
Mormons
03/10/2011 05:46:10 AM
- 2298 Views
Questions.
03/10/2011 11:13:25 AM
- 1060 Views
Re: Questions.
03/10/2011 01:28:28 PM
- 1020 Views
I don't understand why they would be called drinks, if they were not meant to be drunk.
03/10/2011 03:28:48 PM
- 959 Views
Why did I look up what Quorn is? I didn't need to know that. *NM*
03/10/2011 02:04:20 PM
- 595 Views
....did we just get door-to-door'd...ONLINE?!?! *NM*
03/10/2011 11:34:19 AM
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Nope.
04/10/2011 01:32:43 AM
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there's no real point to it
04/10/2011 02:37:24 AM
- 1903 Views
We could use an evil cackling smilie, we do have some other evil ones
04/10/2011 02:49:12 AM
- 869 Views
Do you ever giggle at the name "Moroni?"
03/10/2011 11:39:55 AM
- 957 Views
There are Mormon literalists? Seriously? *NM*
03/10/2011 03:02:18 PM
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In fairness, I wonder the same about Christian literalists. *NM*
03/10/2011 07:57:19 PM
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Yeah, but if you're gonna believe absurdities...
03/10/2011 09:02:32 PM
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Are you trying to suggest that "Reformed" or some other brand of scientology is plausible?
04/10/2011 04:28:40 PM
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Actually, no. It'd be like laughing at... Hosea. Or Nemeiah. It's just an old name.
04/10/2011 12:30:57 AM
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I know they don't have multiple wives anymore, so no misconception there
03/10/2011 01:23:50 PM
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Question: Why are you such a faggot? *NM*
03/10/2011 02:23:45 PM
- 440 Views
Answer: because it's the only way he could return your burning love for him.
03/10/2011 03:24:23 PM
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Better a faggot than a fuckwad. Cheers fuckwad! *NM*
04/10/2011 01:27:20 AM
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Re: You embarrass yourself. *NM*
04/10/2011 01:56:02 AM
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I'll tell you whats embarresing...
04/10/2011 02:08:02 AM
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That is hilarious.
04/10/2011 03:10:50 AM
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Goodness..
04/10/2011 03:20:30 AM
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Re:
04/10/2011 03:28:25 AM
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OK, you need to delete the "Re:" You're using it incorrectly
04/10/2011 01:55:53 PM
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Re: Also.
04/10/2011 02:08:15 PM
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you are still using it incorrectly. *NM*
04/10/2011 02:09:48 PM
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He's doing it on purpose though.
04/10/2011 03:31:39 PM
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Considering that "CaptainHammer" is LDS, I'd rather doubt he's gay.
04/10/2011 02:32:56 AM
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Re: Considering that "CaptainHammer" is LDS, I'd rather doubt he's gay.
04/10/2011 02:37:41 AM
- 598 Views
*sigh* to all of you above....
04/10/2011 03:06:21 AM
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Please explain why you think we should consider you Christians.
03/10/2011 04:33:06 PM
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you know, that does make me wonder though
03/10/2011 04:58:21 PM
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We're not as immovable as we are sometimes portrayed.
03/10/2011 05:27:17 PM
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That concept is alien to the Christian theological understanding, however.
03/10/2011 10:18:55 PM
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I understand what both you and Danny are saying
04/10/2011 12:19:57 AM
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The absolute best part about your post (plus the best thing about Mo's/LDS's)
03/10/2011 09:02:17 PM
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We believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior of all mankind, and the only way back to God.
04/10/2011 01:29:30 AM
- 976 Views
If you think the Book of Mormon was well-written, there is really little left to discuss.
04/10/2011 03:57:08 AM
- 1140 Views
Re: If you think the Book of Mormon was well-written, there is really little left to discuss.
04/10/2011 07:24:27 AM
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Woah nelly.
04/10/2011 10:04:33 AM
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I have to "Wow" as well... racist much?
04/10/2011 01:52:48 PM
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Re: I have to "Wow" as well... racist much?
04/10/2011 04:42:47 PM
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oh well that makes it all better...
04/10/2011 04:54:14 PM
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Yikes. Even for religion, that's more than a little crazy.
04/10/2011 03:47:56 PM
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I don't think there's much of a difference in crazy as opposed to other more mainstream religions.
04/10/2011 07:08:06 PM
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A difference exists if only in continued unabashed affirmation of a rather distasteful doctrine.
04/10/2011 11:06:51 PM
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Then why can't women be priests? Or enter the altar? The curse on Eve is very much in place. *NM*
05/10/2011 12:27:04 AM
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Right now I am not making an absolute statement but a relative one.
05/10/2011 08:37:50 PM
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Oh, you didn't know? Joe Smith said black people are cursed for following Satan.
05/10/2011 01:10:35 AM
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I guess this is a variation on Hams punishment; Ghav, at least should know better than to be shocked
04/10/2011 04:13:59 PM
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it's not that we're surprised because it's "novel"
04/10/2011 04:19:16 PM
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It is not NECESSARILY racist.
04/10/2011 04:39:33 PM
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Sure, except ...
04/10/2011 04:50:53 PM
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Well, the funny thing is Christian doctrine presupposes everyone, along with their ancestors...
04/10/2011 06:31:13 PM
- 769 Views
It it is nigh impossible to be a "non-Nicene Christian."
04/10/2011 03:12:06 PM
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I think we've had this discussion before.
06/10/2011 05:54:39 PM
- 899 Views
Arianism is a bad comparison for arguing LDS=Christian.
06/10/2011 11:45:36 PM
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Wikipedia confirms what I already thought: you're off base with the monophysitism.
07/10/2011 12:06:40 AM
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I had not realized it was that late, but used it only as an example of multitudinous controversies.
07/10/2011 01:03:56 AM
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Monophysites, miaphysites, monothelites, etc. certainly accept the consubstantiality of God/Christ
07/10/2011 11:58:05 AM
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Virtually everyone has a more sound Christology than Mormons.
07/10/2011 06:45:45 PM
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Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
08/10/2011 05:30:38 PM
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I can see that with the Monothelites (can see their appeal, in fact,) but not Monophysites.
07/10/2011 09:43:27 PM
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Tempting as it is to prove Joel wrong (since he so frequently is), I need to take issue with this.
07/10/2011 06:59:13 PM
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I was just saying there were competing views.
07/10/2011 07:49:26 PM
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Oh, there were definitely competing views, just not competing Christian views.
07/10/2011 09:26:22 PM
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That sounds really nice.
04/10/2011 06:38:29 PM
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Why wait though?
05/10/2011 12:12:21 AM
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So that Vivien can avoid reading and thinking about the stuff that you just wrote. *NM*
05/10/2011 12:28:23 AM
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I really want an answer from a mormon.
05/10/2011 08:48:49 PM
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Good luck with that; just because I can see no explanation save that I offered does not preclude one
06/10/2011 07:03:50 AM
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Yeah, that's what I thought.
06/10/2011 05:43:57 PM
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I'm satisfied by that explanation.
06/10/2011 08:51:15 PM
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Oh no you idn't... *waves finger and weaves head*
04/10/2011 03:53:07 AM
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....i don't know what you look like
04/10/2011 03:54:56 AM
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Shoot, my Mick Jagger strut is way better than my angry hispanic girl head/finger bob and weave. *NM*
05/10/2011 04:58:53 AM
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Off-Topic
05/10/2011 01:14:16 AM
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Hmm
05/10/2011 02:03:13 AM
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True
05/10/2011 02:13:00 AM
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I think of Protestantism in terms similar to a Xerox copy.
05/10/2011 04:57:42 AM
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Re: Off-Topic
05/10/2011 02:56:50 AM
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Uhh...
05/10/2011 03:08:49 AM
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The people at the Nicene Council and the other councils were not prophets.
05/10/2011 04:59:50 AM
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Danny is right, it is a pretty tough crowd, but better tough than weak and whitewashed.
04/10/2011 04:02:16 AM
- 853 Views