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Can someone explain to me how Jordan is not a particularly good writer? newyorkersedai Send a noteboard - 21/02/2011 05:41:31 PM
I'm not saying that he's grand, the best, or really incredible. It's just the "not a very good writer" critique is often used, and that's not the sort of critique to make lightly. And I know I have a blind spot about this topic.

I got EotW for free - as a 1/3 novel, it was right there on the counter for the taking. LoC had just come out, and they were trying to lure new readers by offering the entire AoL beginning up to the point where Rand and crew enter Shadar Logoth. I was hooked.

I've read loyally and often, and my love for the series has only lessened over the last couple of years. Still, I never took much time to critique Jordan's skills or style as an author. His voice works for his world, and I like it a lot.

I was worn out by all the slow-moving mess that bogged down aCos onward. That seemed more like a problem with editing than with writing. Or perhaps with the writer's preferred focus. Still, I thought that the individual novels were not particularly good, I didn't think "oh well, Jordan's not actually that good of a writer."

I heard this from a girl I turned on to the series. She kept reading, but she noted that she wasn't that good a writer. Then again, she was a 24/7 critic...

Since I obviously have a blind spot for this topic - like a parent with their kids, or some such - can someone give me more specific and concrete critique and analysis on RJ's not-especially-goodness?
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Can someone explain to me how Jordan is not a particularly good writer? newyorkersedai - 21/02/2011 05:41:31 PM 3657 Views
I personally see it as more of RJ being a fantastic story teller, but not a well structured writer. darius_sedai - 21/02/2011 06:44:21 PM 2110 Views
Re: I personally see it as more of RJ being a fantastic story teller, but not a well structured Lo'oris - 22/02/2011 10:59:25 PM 1751 Views
What do you think about the Southern Gothic authors? Ghavrel - 23/02/2011 08:08:26 AM 1582 Views
Re: What do you think about the Southern Gothic authors? Lo'oris - 23/02/2011 10:51:57 AM 1650 Views
Oh, it really depends. Ghavrel - 23/02/2011 05:39:07 PM 1449 Views
thanks, I'll have a look *NM* Lo'oris - 23/02/2011 05:40:50 PM 1115 Views
For the same reason that most people think they have above average intelligence. RabidWombat - 21/02/2011 11:13:34 PM 2108 Views
Thank you. Nargs - 21/02/2011 11:43:08 PM 1785 Views
Re: For the same reason that most people think they have above average intelligence. *NM* Gerbeaud - 22/02/2011 02:39:20 PM 1221 Views
Re: For the same reason that most people think they have above average intelligence. Gerbeaud - 22/02/2011 02:41:37 PM 1634 Views
Well Said! Evil_Monkey - 22/02/2011 02:42:22 PM 1920 Views
That's possibly the best explanation of literary criticism I've ever seen. The Count - 23/02/2011 02:47:12 AM 1647 Views
I can take a shot at that, since nobody else seems willing to. Ghavrel - 22/02/2011 07:29:20 AM 2161 Views
Do you enjoy reading Robert Jordan's ... Nargs - 22/02/2011 04:31:28 PM 1886 Views
Not particularly. Ghavrel - 22/02/2011 10:22:00 PM 2065 Views
Agreed. Tom - 22/02/2011 10:37:08 PM 1601 Views
Re: I can take a shot at that, since nobody else seems willing to. Lo'oris - 22/02/2011 11:23:38 PM 1792 Views
That has very little to do with anything unless you can provide a real-world analogy to a channeler. Ghavrel - 22/02/2011 11:30:52 PM 1641 Views
Re: That has very little to do with anything unless you can provide a real-world analogy to a Lo'oris - 23/02/2011 12:02:24 AM 1647 Views
As far as I'm concerned, the only way to gauge whether an author is good or not is ... Velveti - 22/02/2011 03:58:17 PM 1700 Views
Amen *NM* Nargs - 22/02/2011 04:32:50 PM 1000 Views
Re: Can someone explain to me how Jordan is not a particularly good writer? DomA - 22/02/2011 06:27:11 PM 2765 Views
Brain overload! This is really well thought out. RabidWombat - 23/02/2011 10:22:37 PM 1840 Views
thank you for the insight into the outside view lol Onarishma - 24/02/2011 04:34:57 PM 1712 Views
I think it has more to do with limitations imposed by how the story was organized and edited. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 22/02/2011 07:50:18 PM 2034 Views
That's interesting, and I have a weird agree/disagree here; also, that Adam Roberts sucks newyorkersedai - 23/02/2011 02:15:12 AM 1755 Views
Re: That's interesting, and I have a weird agree/disagree here; also, that Adam Roberts sucks Lo'oris - 23/02/2011 11:02:14 AM 1689 Views
adam roberts reviews uglycat - 23/02/2011 03:53:49 AM 1910 Views
And I suspect those who prefer the BS books are those who largely read WoT for the story. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/02/2011 08:06:16 AM 1094 Views
Oh GAWD!... not another pointer to Robert Adam's incoherant muckraking HyogaRott - 24/02/2011 07:47:35 PM 1584 Views
I think DomA answered the question best, but the "do you like it" argument is weak. Tom - 22/02/2011 10:32:51 PM 2176 Views
Re: I think DomA answered the question best, but the "do you like it" argument is weak. Lo'oris - 22/02/2011 11:16:24 PM 1988 Views
The Necronomicon isn't actually a book, you know. *NM* Ghavrel - 22/02/2011 11:28:29 PM 1019 Views
There are nine, actually... Lo'oris - 23/02/2011 12:04:55 AM 1883 Views
Lovecraft's Necronomicon was fictitious. If you want to count fanfiction, fine. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/02/2011 12:38:07 AM 1083 Views
Based on how poorly worded that response was, I'm not sure what to think of it. *NM* Tom - 23/02/2011 12:13:00 AM 1123 Views
I hope I am misunderstanding you. Stephen - 23/02/2011 10:57:47 PM 1519 Views
Re: I hope I am misunderstanding you. Lo'oris - 24/02/2011 10:41:09 AM 1673 Views
If the core of the story is all that matters, why read a book Stephen - 24/02/2011 10:32:01 PM 1632 Views
Re: If the core of the story is all that matters, why read a book Lo'oris - 24/02/2011 11:23:42 PM 1756 Views
So wait, style is good? Stephen - 25/02/2011 12:32:07 AM 1922 Views
Re: So wait, style is good? Lo'oris - 25/02/2011 08:53:55 AM 1504 Views
I'm not trolling Stephen - 25/02/2011 11:57:18 PM 1579 Views
That depends... DomA - 23/02/2011 03:00:35 AM 1811 Views
I didn't say aesthetics was the primary criterion. I named three criteria. Tom - 23/02/2011 05:39:03 AM 1702 Views
the "do you like it" is the most important criterion RabidWombat - 23/02/2011 10:45:17 PM 1651 Views
Re: the "do you like it" is the most important criterion DomA - 24/02/2011 01:53:59 AM 1610 Views
Thumbs up - IMHO, all discussion can end here Nargs - 28/02/2011 05:45:34 PM 1766 Views
Not for quality of writing. Tom - 24/02/2011 05:17:52 PM 1620 Views
Those who can do, the rest are critics. *NM* HyogaRott - 24/02/2011 07:55:50 PM 1125 Views
I object, sir! People don't read WoT for the way it's told? newyorkersedai - 24/02/2011 12:58:58 AM 1680 Views
If you don't mind me asking... Fanatic-Templar - 24/02/2011 01:05:12 AM 1702 Views
Re: If you don't mind me asking... DomA - 24/02/2011 02:19:17 AM 1547 Views
I still don't get it. Fanatic-Templar - 24/02/2011 08:27:50 AM 1585 Views
Re: If you don't mind me asking... Lo'oris - 24/02/2011 11:29:14 PM 1636 Views
I don't mind that you ask, but I'm not going to engage in a defense of literature. Tom - 24/02/2011 05:35:27 PM 1607 Views
Re: I don't mind that you ask, but I'm not going to engage in a defense of literature. Lo'oris - 24/02/2011 11:26:55 PM 1597 Views
I'm sure you have a wonderful job awaiting in fast food service. Tom - 25/02/2011 01:57:15 AM 1660 Views
Re: I'm sure you have a wonderful job awaiting in fast food service. Lo'oris - 25/02/2011 08:56:06 AM 1617 Views
Jack @$$ snobbery at its best. WOW *NM* Nargs - 28/02/2011 05:48:43 PM 1003 Views
... Fanatic-Templar - 25/02/2011 01:07:22 AM 1509 Views
Maybe you should have used better prose? fionwe1987 - 25/02/2011 01:23:17 AM 1403 Views
It is not a serious question. Tom - 25/02/2011 01:53:59 AM 1775 Views
How so? fionwe1987 - 25/02/2011 02:59:05 AM 1770 Views
I have every right to use that tone. Tom - 25/02/2011 03:08:14 PM 1585 Views
Is that so? Fanatic-Templar - 25/02/2011 05:58:31 AM 1990 Views
I'm not fixated with Jordan. Tom - 25/02/2011 03:13:56 PM 1626 Views
Then why do you keep trying to qualify the passage in relation to him? Fanatic-Templar - 25/02/2011 06:29:31 PM 1655 Views
You're conflating two things. Tom - 25/02/2011 07:32:59 PM 1892 Views
All right, now we're getting somewhere. Fanatic-Templar - 26/02/2011 12:40:57 AM 1718 Views
you raise very good questions... *NM* Nargs - 26/02/2011 09:21:13 AM 1024 Views
Okay, here you go. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt as to your sincerity. Tom - 26/02/2011 03:20:44 PM 1524 Views
Thank you, and I agree with all your explanations. *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 26/02/2011 07:28:09 PM 958 Views
Glad to hear that. Tom - 27/02/2011 03:42:33 AM 1619 Views
No problem, these things happen on the internet. *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 27/02/2011 04:36:57 AM 971 Views
No, it is a serious question, just one that can never be seriously answered. HyogaRott - 25/02/2011 03:28:48 PM 1804 Views
Your opinion isn't as valid as anyone else's if that's your opinion. Tom - 25/02/2011 04:44:57 PM 1831 Views
Re: Your opinion isn't as valid as anyone else's if that's your opinion. HyogaRott - 25/02/2011 06:05:18 PM 2077 Views
I'm not wasting my time proving something to an internet moron and troll like you. Tom - 25/02/2011 07:36:19 PM 1576 Views
Ah yes, the wonderful "dissmiss the person who disagrees with me by insulting him tactic" HyogaRott - 28/02/2011 02:30:35 PM 1524 Views
Re: Your opinion isn't as valid as anyone else's if that's your opinion. Lo'oris - 26/02/2011 11:06:26 AM 1480 Views
Jack @$$ snobbery at its best. WOW *NM* Nargs - 28/02/2011 05:51:48 PM 972 Views
double post. oh my! *NM* Nargs - 28/02/2011 05:52:17 PM 996 Views
Just makes you right twice *NM* HyogaRott - 28/02/2011 09:42:19 PM 1111 Views
Re: ... Lo'oris - 25/02/2011 08:59:37 AM 1568 Views
And part 2, on the analysis of writing. newyorkersedai - 24/02/2011 01:16:20 AM 1747 Views
Florid desciption is usually not a good thing. Tom - 24/02/2011 05:30:30 PM 1549 Views
Re: I find this whole thing elitist and more than a bit silly GarethBryne - 23/02/2011 06:45:05 AM 1959 Views
Why do you think mind-expanding literature is restricted to the classics? Ghavrel - 23/02/2011 08:03:59 AM 1548 Views
Re: Why do you think mind-expanding literature is restricted to the classics? GarethBryne - 23/02/2011 09:25:10 AM 1691 Views
Of course people read for pleasure. Ghavrel - 23/02/2011 09:04:24 PM 1626 Views
Ok... Nargs - 24/02/2011 08:59:27 AM 1622 Views
"Yeah well, that's, like, just your opinion, man." Good argument. Ghavrel - 24/02/2011 03:43:24 PM 1738 Views
*NM* Tom - 24/02/2011 05:37:02 PM 1016 Views
I find your above average tastes and intelligence uninspiring. Nargs - 24/02/2011 08:42:03 PM 1448 Views
I'm curious to hear who Tom and DomA consider a "very good writer"? VTHokie - 24/02/2011 05:49:13 PM 1726 Views
Among living writers? Tom - 24/02/2011 08:16:08 PM 1801 Views
No Rushdie? fionwe1987 - 24/02/2011 09:22:46 PM 1519 Views
I was considering mentioning Rushdie. Tom - 24/02/2011 09:32:20 PM 1506 Views
My list would be similar... DomA - 26/02/2011 07:24:11 AM 1898 Views
That was a very good list. Tom - 26/02/2011 03:07:31 PM 1921 Views
Re: That was a very good list. DomA - 27/02/2011 04:51:43 AM 1846 Views
Once I finish Hugo I'm probably going to read Druon. Tom - 27/02/2011 02:30:03 PM 1732 Views
Oh, and another question Tom - 27/02/2011 05:28:47 PM 1391 Views
Re: Oh, and another question DomA - 01/03/2011 03:42:02 AM 1754 Views
One final question, if you'll indulge me... Tom - 01/03/2011 06:43:23 PM 1460 Views
Well, until I have time to return to your previous post but... DomA - 01/03/2011 07:45:13 PM 1845 Views
I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great' Iain83 - 27/02/2011 11:14:30 AM 1873 Views
You like Solzhenitsyn but not other Russian writers? Tom - 27/02/2011 02:43:46 PM 1755 Views
Re: You like Solzhenitsyn but not other Russian writers? Iain83 - 02/03/2011 11:47:19 PM 1842 Views
Re: I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great' DomA - 28/02/2011 11:51:49 PM 1775 Views
Re: I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great' Iain83 - 03/03/2011 12:01:30 AM 1736 Views
Link to DomA Post from up above: Nargs - 03/03/2011 12:20:11 AM 1857 Views
Re: I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great' DomA - 03/03/2011 02:17:06 PM 1701 Views
He's a great storyteller, but his prose is somewhat uninspiring. *NM* Marshall - 27/02/2011 07:28:00 PM 1128 Views
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