I object, sir! People don't read WoT for the way it's told?
newyorkersedai Send a noteboard - 24/02/2011 12:58:58 AM
Let me start by just saying that I am not so wowed that I simply need to read this story:
Super-advanced, super-civilized and peaceful people who use magic found a way to contact what is basically, a hyper-powerful Satan, and the result was that the world went from utter peace to massacres and anarchy. Everyone nearly died trying to stop it, but they didn't put the world back in order and Evil was still a powerfully-influential force. Nearly 3000 years later, this 17-century European-like continent has women who control all the magic in the world. Men who have magic are dangerous and feared and bad, but Good relies on the reborn spirit of the most famous man ever who won a Pyhrric victory in stopping Evil the first time is the only guy who can stop it this time. But he doesn't know anything about this! And the legions of Evil are everywhere and powerful! And even the other good guys are scared of him or want to control him in a way that may not be for the best! And he's just an ignorant youngster with no education but a lot of heart!
I don't care if it's a movie series, a "quality" syfy show (hahaha!), or a novel: I don't find that plot - even throwing in cool things like Lanfear, Ishy, gholam, sangreal, or Mat, or other juicy "cool stuff" - to be so interesting that I have to try it. Or have to keep enjoying it.
It's the way the story was told that made it so addictive. The more I think about it, the more I feel that the beast got away from RJ after LoC. Because I have read lots of literature, and a bit of trash too, but I found TEotW, TGH, TDR, and TSR, to be completely engrossing.
I think I found LoC the same way, but I can't quite remember and I should reread before I opine. I'm sure that ACoS onward sees the series take a dip in many ways. It's more like the 6th series of a tv show - it's extremely rare that it makes successful efforts and good experiments; or doesn't lapse into been-there-before in a way that either (a) indicates they didn't pull off what they were going for or (b) have run out of ideas.
Although RJ had clearly not run out of ideas - even up to the end (dammit) - his execution was not so strong as the series went on. Things he tried for didn't work, some choices could have been handled differently (impliedly also: for the better), and the level of "drag" or repetition really does mount to the degree of "kinda unacceptable."
I'll address the rest in part 2
Super-advanced, super-civilized and peaceful people who use magic found a way to contact what is basically, a hyper-powerful Satan, and the result was that the world went from utter peace to massacres and anarchy. Everyone nearly died trying to stop it, but they didn't put the world back in order and Evil was still a powerfully-influential force. Nearly 3000 years later, this 17-century European-like continent has women who control all the magic in the world. Men who have magic are dangerous and feared and bad, but Good relies on the reborn spirit of the most famous man ever who won a Pyhrric victory in stopping Evil the first time is the only guy who can stop it this time. But he doesn't know anything about this! And the legions of Evil are everywhere and powerful! And even the other good guys are scared of him or want to control him in a way that may not be for the best! And he's just an ignorant youngster with no education but a lot of heart!
I don't care if it's a movie series, a "quality" syfy show (hahaha!), or a novel: I don't find that plot - even throwing in cool things like Lanfear, Ishy, gholam, sangreal, or Mat, or other juicy "cool stuff" - to be so interesting that I have to try it. Or have to keep enjoying it.
It's the way the story was told that made it so addictive. The more I think about it, the more I feel that the beast got away from RJ after LoC. Because I have read lots of literature, and a bit of trash too, but I found TEotW, TGH, TDR, and TSR, to be completely engrossing.
I think I found LoC the same way, but I can't quite remember and I should reread before I opine. I'm sure that ACoS onward sees the series take a dip in many ways. It's more like the 6th series of a tv show - it's extremely rare that it makes successful efforts and good experiments; or doesn't lapse into been-there-before in a way that either (a) indicates they didn't pull off what they were going for or (b) have run out of ideas.
Although RJ had clearly not run out of ideas - even up to the end (dammit) - his execution was not so strong as the series went on. Things he tried for didn't work, some choices could have been handled differently (impliedly also: for the better), and the level of "drag" or repetition really does mount to the degree of "kinda unacceptable."
I'll address the rest in part 2
Can someone explain to me how Jordan is not a particularly good writer?
21/02/2011 05:41:31 PM
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I personally see it as more of RJ being a fantastic story teller, but not a well structured writer.
21/02/2011 06:44:21 PM
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Re: I personally see it as more of RJ being a fantastic story teller, but not a well structured
22/02/2011 10:59:25 PM
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What do you think about the Southern Gothic authors?
23/02/2011 08:08:26 AM
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Re: What do you think about the Southern Gothic authors?
23/02/2011 10:51:57 AM
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For the same reason that most people think they have above average intelligence.
21/02/2011 11:13:34 PM
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Re: For the same reason that most people think they have above average intelligence. *NM*
22/02/2011 02:39:20 PM
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Re: For the same reason that most people think they have above average intelligence.
22/02/2011 02:41:37 PM
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That's possibly the best explanation of literary criticism I've ever seen.
23/02/2011 02:47:12 AM
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I can take a shot at that, since nobody else seems willing to.
22/02/2011 07:29:20 AM
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Re: I can take a shot at that, since nobody else seems willing to.
22/02/2011 11:23:38 PM
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That has very little to do with anything unless you can provide a real-world analogy to a channeler.
22/02/2011 11:30:52 PM
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Re: That has very little to do with anything unless you can provide a real-world analogy to a
23/02/2011 12:02:24 AM
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As far as I'm concerned, the only way to gauge whether an author is good or not is ...
22/02/2011 03:58:17 PM
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Re: Can someone explain to me how Jordan is not a particularly good writer?
22/02/2011 06:27:11 PM
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I think it has more to do with limitations imposed by how the story was organized and edited.
22/02/2011 07:50:18 PM
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That's interesting, and I have a weird agree/disagree here; also, that Adam Roberts sucks
23/02/2011 02:15:12 AM
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Re: That's interesting, and I have a weird agree/disagree here; also, that Adam Roberts sucks
23/02/2011 11:02:14 AM
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adam roberts reviews
23/02/2011 03:53:49 AM
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And I suspect those who prefer the BS books are those who largely read WoT for the story. *NM*
23/02/2011 08:06:16 AM
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Oh GAWD!... not another pointer to Robert Adam's incoherant muckraking
24/02/2011 07:47:35 PM
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I think DomA answered the question best, but the "do you like it" argument is weak.
22/02/2011 10:32:51 PM
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Re: I think DomA answered the question best, but the "do you like it" argument is weak.
22/02/2011 11:16:24 PM
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The Necronomicon isn't actually a book, you know.
*NM*
22/02/2011 11:28:29 PM
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There are nine, actually...
23/02/2011 12:04:55 AM
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Lovecraft's Necronomicon was fictitious. If you want to count fanfiction, fine. *NM*
23/02/2011 12:38:07 AM
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Based on how poorly worded that response was, I'm not sure what to think of it. *NM*
23/02/2011 12:13:00 AM
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I hope I am misunderstanding you.
23/02/2011 10:57:47 PM
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Re: I hope I am misunderstanding you.
24/02/2011 10:41:09 AM
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If the core of the story is all that matters, why read a book
24/02/2011 10:32:01 PM
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Re: If the core of the story is all that matters, why read a book
24/02/2011 11:23:42 PM
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So wait, style is good?
25/02/2011 12:32:07 AM
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That depends...
23/02/2011 03:00:35 AM
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I didn't say aesthetics was the primary criterion. I named three criteria.
23/02/2011 05:39:03 AM
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the "do you like it" is the most important criterion
23/02/2011 10:45:17 PM
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I object, sir! People don't read WoT for the way it's told?
24/02/2011 12:58:58 AM
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If you don't mind me asking...
24/02/2011 01:05:12 AM
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I don't mind that you ask, but I'm not going to engage in a defense of literature.
24/02/2011 05:35:27 PM
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Re: I don't mind that you ask, but I'm not going to engage in a defense of literature.
24/02/2011 11:26:55 PM
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I'm sure you have a wonderful job awaiting in fast food service.
25/02/2011 01:57:15 AM
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Re: I'm sure you have a wonderful job awaiting in fast food service.
25/02/2011 08:56:06 AM
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...
25/02/2011 01:07:22 AM
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It is not a serious question.
25/02/2011 01:53:59 AM
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Is that so?
25/02/2011 05:58:31 AM
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I'm not fixated with Jordan.
25/02/2011 03:13:56 PM
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Then why do you keep trying to qualify the passage in relation to him?
25/02/2011 06:29:31 PM
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You're conflating two things.
25/02/2011 07:32:59 PM
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All right, now we're getting somewhere.
26/02/2011 12:40:57 AM
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Okay, here you go. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt as to your sincerity.
26/02/2011 03:20:44 PM
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Thank you, and I agree with all your explanations. *NM*
26/02/2011 07:28:09 PM
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No, it is a serious question, just one that can never be seriously answered.
25/02/2011 03:28:48 PM
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Your opinion isn't as valid as anyone else's if that's your opinion.
25/02/2011 04:44:57 PM
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Re: Your opinion isn't as valid as anyone else's if that's your opinion.
25/02/2011 06:05:18 PM
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I'm not wasting my time proving something to an internet moron and troll like you.
25/02/2011 07:36:19 PM
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Ah yes, the wonderful "dissmiss the person who disagrees with me by insulting him tactic"
28/02/2011 02:30:35 PM
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Re: Your opinion isn't as valid as anyone else's if that's your opinion.
26/02/2011 11:06:26 AM
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Re: I find this whole thing elitist and more than a bit silly
23/02/2011 06:45:05 AM
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Why do you think mind-expanding literature is restricted to the classics?
23/02/2011 08:03:59 AM
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Re: Why do you think mind-expanding literature is restricted to the classics?
23/02/2011 09:25:10 AM
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Of course people read for pleasure.
23/02/2011 09:04:24 PM
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Ok...
24/02/2011 08:59:27 AM
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"Yeah well, that's, like, just your opinion, man." Good argument.
24/02/2011 03:43:24 PM
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I'm curious to hear who Tom and DomA consider a "very good writer"?
24/02/2011 05:49:13 PM
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Among living writers?
24/02/2011 08:16:08 PM
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My list would be similar...
26/02/2011 07:24:11 AM
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That was a very good list.
26/02/2011 03:07:31 PM
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Re: That was a very good list.
27/02/2011 04:51:43 AM
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Oh, and another question
27/02/2011 05:28:47 PM
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Re: Oh, and another question
01/03/2011 03:42:02 AM
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I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great'
27/02/2011 11:14:30 AM
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Re: I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great'
28/02/2011 11:51:49 PM
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Re: I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great'
03/03/2011 12:01:30 AM
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Re: I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great'
03/03/2011 02:17:06 PM
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He's a great storyteller, but his prose is somewhat uninspiring. *NM*
27/02/2011 07:28:00 PM
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