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No, it is a serious question, just one that can never be seriously answered. HyogaRott Send a noteboard - 25/02/2011 03:28:48 PM
Art critics, Music critics, Literature critics, all the self appointed judges of what is "GOOD" none of you can justify beyond "Because I think so" and "Because my teachers/professors told me so."

I have news for all of you, my opinion is just as valid as yours, and I don't need to try to dredge up some century dead book written in another language to justify myself either.

A cross floating in a jar of urine is not art no matter how many self-important “experts” think it should be. Popular appeal of a novel is the ONLY definition of a good novel, whether you like it or not.

Yes you can evaluate a manuscript for prose and structure. You can search for hidden meanings. HAVE FUN. But the bottom line questions are:
Did you enjoy it?
Would you read it again?

And the answers will be different for many different people.

You may like On Walden Pond, I think he was a complete loser that should be hit upside his head with the hammer he was so proud of stealing. You may find The Invisible Man to be a thought provoking insight into racial oppression. I just think the guy should STFU and get on with living his life. You think RJ wasted too much time describing things that didn’t need to be; I think Thomas Hardy’s garbage would have been decent flash stories with a REALLY good editor. You can go back through the threads to find my opinion on Adam’s bound collection of toilet paper that should have been flushed.

Opinions vary, and yes, like all of you, I think mine are correct and yours are wrong; otherwise I would have yours.

There was a little turtle, he lived in a box. He swam in a puddle, and climbed on some rocks.

He snapped at a mosquito, he snapped at a flea, he snapped at a minnow and he snapped at me.

He caught the mosquito, he caught the flea, he caught the minnow, but he didn't catch me.

Complete nonsense poem. No hidden meanings, VERY simplistic rhyme and meter pattern; but always been one of my favorites. Personally I think it is better than anything Poe ever wrote, ranks right up there with Frost's Road not taken. It is my opinion. I however, do not demean people as stupid just because they do not share it.
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Can someone explain to me how Jordan is not a particularly good writer? newyorkersedai - 21/02/2011 05:41:31 PM 3408 Views
I personally see it as more of RJ being a fantastic story teller, but not a well structured writer. darius_sedai - 21/02/2011 06:44:21 PM 1810 Views
Re: I personally see it as more of RJ being a fantastic story teller, but not a well structured Lo'oris - 22/02/2011 10:59:25 PM 1439 Views
What do you think about the Southern Gothic authors? Ghavrel - 23/02/2011 08:08:26 AM 1301 Views
Re: What do you think about the Southern Gothic authors? Lo'oris - 23/02/2011 10:51:57 AM 1386 Views
Oh, it really depends. Ghavrel - 23/02/2011 05:39:07 PM 1178 Views
thanks, I'll have a look *NM* Lo'oris - 23/02/2011 05:40:50 PM 881 Views
For the same reason that most people think they have above average intelligence. RabidWombat - 21/02/2011 11:13:34 PM 1803 Views
Thank you. Nargs - 21/02/2011 11:43:08 PM 1501 Views
Re: For the same reason that most people think they have above average intelligence. *NM* Gerbeaud - 22/02/2011 02:39:20 PM 982 Views
Re: For the same reason that most people think they have above average intelligence. Gerbeaud - 22/02/2011 02:41:37 PM 1253 Views
Well Said! Evil_Monkey - 22/02/2011 02:42:22 PM 1459 Views
That's possibly the best explanation of literary criticism I've ever seen. The Count - 23/02/2011 02:47:12 AM 1373 Views
I can take a shot at that, since nobody else seems willing to. Ghavrel - 22/02/2011 07:29:20 AM 1836 Views
Do you enjoy reading Robert Jordan's ... Nargs - 22/02/2011 04:31:28 PM 1536 Views
Not particularly. Ghavrel - 22/02/2011 10:22:00 PM 1658 Views
Agreed. Tom - 22/02/2011 10:37:08 PM 1351 Views
Re: I can take a shot at that, since nobody else seems willing to. Lo'oris - 22/02/2011 11:23:38 PM 1476 Views
That has very little to do with anything unless you can provide a real-world analogy to a channeler. Ghavrel - 22/02/2011 11:30:52 PM 1376 Views
Re: That has very little to do with anything unless you can provide a real-world analogy to a Lo'oris - 23/02/2011 12:02:24 AM 1392 Views
As far as I'm concerned, the only way to gauge whether an author is good or not is ... Velveti - 22/02/2011 03:58:17 PM 1383 Views
Amen *NM* Nargs - 22/02/2011 04:32:50 PM 858 Views
Re: Can someone explain to me how Jordan is not a particularly good writer? DomA - 22/02/2011 06:27:11 PM 2254 Views
Brain overload! This is really well thought out. RabidWombat - 23/02/2011 10:22:37 PM 1437 Views
thank you for the insight into the outside view lol Onarishma - 24/02/2011 04:34:57 PM 1451 Views
I think it has more to do with limitations imposed by how the story was organized and edited. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 22/02/2011 07:50:18 PM 1721 Views
That's interesting, and I have a weird agree/disagree here; also, that Adam Roberts sucks newyorkersedai - 23/02/2011 02:15:12 AM 1484 Views
Re: That's interesting, and I have a weird agree/disagree here; also, that Adam Roberts sucks Lo'oris - 23/02/2011 11:02:14 AM 1434 Views
adam roberts reviews uglycat - 23/02/2011 03:53:49 AM 1488 Views
And I suspect those who prefer the BS books are those who largely read WoT for the story. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/02/2011 08:06:16 AM 839 Views
Oh GAWD!... not another pointer to Robert Adam's incoherant muckraking HyogaRott - 24/02/2011 07:47:35 PM 1306 Views
I think DomA answered the question best, but the "do you like it" argument is weak. Tom - 22/02/2011 10:32:51 PM 1673 Views
Re: I think DomA answered the question best, but the "do you like it" argument is weak. Lo'oris - 22/02/2011 11:16:24 PM 1594 Views
The Necronomicon isn't actually a book, you know. *NM* Ghavrel - 22/02/2011 11:28:29 PM 788 Views
There are nine, actually... Lo'oris - 23/02/2011 12:04:55 AM 1595 Views
Lovecraft's Necronomicon was fictitious. If you want to count fanfiction, fine. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/02/2011 12:38:07 AM 858 Views
Based on how poorly worded that response was, I'm not sure what to think of it. *NM* Tom - 23/02/2011 12:13:00 AM 846 Views
I hope I am misunderstanding you. Stephen - 23/02/2011 10:57:47 PM 1273 Views
Re: I hope I am misunderstanding you. Lo'oris - 24/02/2011 10:41:09 AM 1416 Views
If the core of the story is all that matters, why read a book Stephen - 24/02/2011 10:32:01 PM 1377 Views
Re: If the core of the story is all that matters, why read a book Lo'oris - 24/02/2011 11:23:42 PM 1266 Views
So wait, style is good? Stephen - 25/02/2011 12:32:07 AM 1629 Views
Re: So wait, style is good? Lo'oris - 25/02/2011 08:53:55 AM 1245 Views
I'm not trolling Stephen - 25/02/2011 11:57:18 PM 1264 Views
That depends... DomA - 23/02/2011 03:00:35 AM 1535 Views
I didn't say aesthetics was the primary criterion. I named three criteria. Tom - 23/02/2011 05:39:03 AM 1409 Views
the "do you like it" is the most important criterion RabidWombat - 23/02/2011 10:45:17 PM 1381 Views
Re: the "do you like it" is the most important criterion DomA - 24/02/2011 01:53:59 AM 1363 Views
Thumbs up - IMHO, all discussion can end here Nargs - 28/02/2011 05:45:34 PM 1488 Views
Not for quality of writing. Tom - 24/02/2011 05:17:52 PM 1336 Views
Those who can do, the rest are critics. *NM* HyogaRott - 24/02/2011 07:55:50 PM 856 Views
I object, sir! People don't read WoT for the way it's told? newyorkersedai - 24/02/2011 12:58:58 AM 1420 Views
If you don't mind me asking... Fanatic-Templar - 24/02/2011 01:05:12 AM 1231 Views
Re: If you don't mind me asking... DomA - 24/02/2011 02:19:17 AM 1299 Views
I still don't get it. Fanatic-Templar - 24/02/2011 08:27:50 AM 1217 Views
Re: If you don't mind me asking... Lo'oris - 24/02/2011 11:29:14 PM 1279 Views
I don't mind that you ask, but I'm not going to engage in a defense of literature. Tom - 24/02/2011 05:35:27 PM 1232 Views
Re: I don't mind that you ask, but I'm not going to engage in a defense of literature. Lo'oris - 24/02/2011 11:26:55 PM 1356 Views
I'm sure you have a wonderful job awaiting in fast food service. Tom - 25/02/2011 01:57:15 AM 1405 Views
Re: I'm sure you have a wonderful job awaiting in fast food service. Lo'oris - 25/02/2011 08:56:06 AM 1317 Views
Jack @$$ snobbery at its best. WOW *NM* Nargs - 28/02/2011 05:48:43 PM 863 Views
... Fanatic-Templar - 25/02/2011 01:07:22 AM 1247 Views
Maybe you should have used better prose? fionwe1987 - 25/02/2011 01:23:17 AM 1115 Views
It is not a serious question. Tom - 25/02/2011 01:53:59 AM 1292 Views
How so? fionwe1987 - 25/02/2011 02:59:05 AM 1399 Views
I have every right to use that tone. Tom - 25/02/2011 03:08:14 PM 1339 Views
Is that so? Fanatic-Templar - 25/02/2011 05:58:31 AM 1400 Views
I'm not fixated with Jordan. Tom - 25/02/2011 03:13:56 PM 1346 Views
Then why do you keep trying to qualify the passage in relation to him? Fanatic-Templar - 25/02/2011 06:29:31 PM 1394 Views
You're conflating two things. Tom - 25/02/2011 07:32:59 PM 1422 Views
All right, now we're getting somewhere. Fanatic-Templar - 26/02/2011 12:40:57 AM 1325 Views
you raise very good questions... *NM* Nargs - 26/02/2011 09:21:13 AM 789 Views
Okay, here you go. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt as to your sincerity. Tom - 26/02/2011 03:20:44 PM 1147 Views
Thank you, and I agree with all your explanations. *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 26/02/2011 07:28:09 PM 791 Views
Glad to hear that. Tom - 27/02/2011 03:42:33 AM 1219 Views
No problem, these things happen on the internet. *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 27/02/2011 04:36:57 AM 837 Views
No, it is a serious question, just one that can never be seriously answered. HyogaRott - 25/02/2011 03:28:48 PM 1302 Views
Your opinion isn't as valid as anyone else's if that's your opinion. Tom - 25/02/2011 04:44:57 PM 1451 Views
Re: Your opinion isn't as valid as anyone else's if that's your opinion. HyogaRott - 25/02/2011 06:05:18 PM 1828 Views
I'm not wasting my time proving something to an internet moron and troll like you. Tom - 25/02/2011 07:36:19 PM 1209 Views
Ah yes, the wonderful "dissmiss the person who disagrees with me by insulting him tactic" HyogaRott - 28/02/2011 02:30:35 PM 1209 Views
Re: Your opinion isn't as valid as anyone else's if that's your opinion. Lo'oris - 26/02/2011 11:06:26 AM 1234 Views
Jack @$$ snobbery at its best. WOW *NM* Nargs - 28/02/2011 05:51:48 PM 711 Views
double post. oh my! *NM* Nargs - 28/02/2011 05:52:17 PM 738 Views
Just makes you right twice *NM* HyogaRott - 28/02/2011 09:42:19 PM 846 Views
Re: ... Lo'oris - 25/02/2011 08:59:37 AM 1295 Views
And part 2, on the analysis of writing. newyorkersedai - 24/02/2011 01:16:20 AM 1344 Views
Florid desciption is usually not a good thing. Tom - 24/02/2011 05:30:30 PM 1279 Views
Re: I find this whole thing elitist and more than a bit silly GarethBryne - 23/02/2011 06:45:05 AM 1461 Views
Why do you think mind-expanding literature is restricted to the classics? Ghavrel - 23/02/2011 08:03:59 AM 1237 Views
Re: Why do you think mind-expanding literature is restricted to the classics? GarethBryne - 23/02/2011 09:25:10 AM 1437 Views
Of course people read for pleasure. Ghavrel - 23/02/2011 09:04:24 PM 1241 Views
Ok... Nargs - 24/02/2011 08:59:27 AM 1250 Views
"Yeah well, that's, like, just your opinion, man." Good argument. Ghavrel - 24/02/2011 03:43:24 PM 1341 Views
*NM* Tom - 24/02/2011 05:37:02 PM 758 Views
I find your above average tastes and intelligence uninspiring. Nargs - 24/02/2011 08:42:03 PM 1192 Views
I'm curious to hear who Tom and DomA consider a "very good writer"? VTHokie - 24/02/2011 05:49:13 PM 1328 Views
Among living writers? Tom - 24/02/2011 08:16:08 PM 1391 Views
No Rushdie? fionwe1987 - 24/02/2011 09:22:46 PM 1257 Views
I was considering mentioning Rushdie. Tom - 24/02/2011 09:32:20 PM 1225 Views
My list would be similar... DomA - 26/02/2011 07:24:11 AM 1490 Views
That was a very good list. Tom - 26/02/2011 03:07:31 PM 1383 Views
Re: That was a very good list. DomA - 27/02/2011 04:51:43 AM 1405 Views
Once I finish Hugo I'm probably going to read Druon. Tom - 27/02/2011 02:30:03 PM 1218 Views
Oh, and another question Tom - 27/02/2011 05:28:47 PM 1144 Views
Re: Oh, and another question DomA - 01/03/2011 03:42:02 AM 1345 Views
One final question, if you'll indulge me... Tom - 01/03/2011 06:43:23 PM 1191 Views
Well, until I have time to return to your previous post but... DomA - 01/03/2011 07:45:13 PM 1397 Views
I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great' Iain83 - 27/02/2011 11:14:30 AM 1539 Views
You like Solzhenitsyn but not other Russian writers? Tom - 27/02/2011 02:43:46 PM 1355 Views
Re: You like Solzhenitsyn but not other Russian writers? Iain83 - 02/03/2011 11:47:19 PM 1518 Views
Re: I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great' DomA - 28/02/2011 11:51:49 PM 1445 Views
Re: I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great' Iain83 - 03/03/2011 12:01:30 AM 1449 Views
Link to DomA Post from up above: Nargs - 03/03/2011 12:20:11 AM 1582 Views
Re: I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great' DomA - 03/03/2011 02:17:06 PM 1321 Views
He's a great storyteller, but his prose is somewhat uninspiring. *NM* Marshall - 27/02/2011 07:28:00 PM 871 Views
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