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I need to come and save you from blatant fallacies being spouted by the loonies. Shannow Send a noteboard - 28/10/2012 05:56:21 PM
Yeah, that's all wrong. For one thing, RJ said strength is distributed over a bell curve, not strength levels. You're plotting the wrong data points.

That said, obviously each level corresponds to a range on the strength scale (whatever it was in RJ's, we can take it to be 1-100 and it will still work the same). The 21 levels are distributed over this scale. We don't know if each level represents an equal interval in the strength scale, but assuming we do, we'd expect a peak around 10/11, which is where you find it. However, you also need to note that the sampling in that list is atrocious. We tend to see and hear more about stronger Aes Sedai and very little about women too weak to become AS. That definitely causes skewing. Plus, the list is very subjective, and tries to make quantitative differences between "strong" and "very strong" and such terms.

Oh, ok. I always assumed the levels were evenly distributed. Do you know if there exists a large collection of channeler strengths, enough to make a plot?

I guess making a comprehensive list would be like the mother of all those riddles where you get information like "The man in house number two drinks wine" and "The French officer is the neighbour of the man who has a dog".

RJ spoke of the same bell curve holding now. He said strength was distributed over a bell curve. That 67.5% of channelers in that curve would be strong enough to be Aes Sedai. That this is true only in the modern age, since in the AoL, anyone could become Aes Sedai. There's no doubt at all that its the same bell curve.


If RJ said it, why are we discussing it? Do you have a link to the quote?

But really, 67.5% of the channeling population strong enough to be Aes Sedai? Aren't they sending away a majority of the novices and accepted because they aren't strong enough? Or is it because the majority don't have "what it takes to be Aes Sedai"?


Firstly, channeling strength IS linked to genetics. It is blatantly incorrect to say that it is solely linked to the soul.

In fact, it is linked to both the soul and the body. If Lews Therin's soul was reborn into a body that does not have sufficient strength, he will be weaker in the One Power than in his previous incarnation.

So yes, a weaker channeling gene pool will serve to reduce average strength.

Secondly, great work in applying a Bell Curve to the estimated channeler strengths of known channelers. It indeed clearly shows that the curve now spikes way lower than it did in the Age of Legends.

Furthermore, RJ has confirmed that 62.5% of female channelers are strong enough to pass the Aes Sedai test (meaning they are as strong as Daigian or stronger). This means that only 12.5% of channelers lie between Daigian and the average strength channeler.

We know that Daigian is roughly one third as strong as Moiraine. And we know that Lanfear is FAR more than twice as strong as Moiraine (meaning that Moiraine has to lie below the average strength channeler).

All of this tells us that all modern Aes Sedai come from less than 12.5% of the total female channeling population. This HAS to be the case, because if 37.5% lie below Daigian, then 12.5% lie between Daigian and the average strength, and if Moiraine lies BELOW the average strength, then all modern sisters who fall between Daigian and Moiraine come from LESS than 12.5% of the total channeling population.

There it is. Irrefutable, if you believe in the Bell Curve hypothesis.
This message last edited by Shannow on 28/10/2012 at 06:00:30 PM
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Ch2 : Pevara & Androl and channeling implications - 24/10/2012 06:40:47 PM 3283 Views
Did Perva actually initiate the link or was it Androl? *NM* - 24/10/2012 07:02:15 PM 967 Views
Androl did. *NM* - 25/10/2012 05:10:31 AM 1170 Views
But didn't Nynaeve do it first at the cleansing? - 25/10/2012 12:43:15 PM 1466 Views
Pevara was thinking on very sketchy information. - 25/10/2012 08:56:20 PM 1667 Views
did he start the link? or just take it? - 27/10/2012 07:33:49 AM 1112 Views
I think it's slightly off - 28/10/2012 04:21:05 PM 1409 Views
Re: Ch2 : Pevara & Androl and channeling implications - 25/10/2012 05:13:43 AM 1768 Views
Re: Ch2 : Pevara & Androl and channeling implications - 25/10/2012 04:23:20 PM 1413 Views
Re: Ch2 : Pevara & Androl and channeling implications - 25/10/2012 09:52:03 PM 1497 Views
Travelling - 25/10/2012 08:56:41 AM 1440 Views
Yes that's a pet theory of mine - 25/10/2012 04:21:53 PM 1453 Views
Re: Yes that's a pet theory of mine - 25/10/2012 06:12:21 PM 1428 Views
Re: Yes that's a pet theory of mine - 25/10/2012 08:50:15 PM 1318 Views
Re: Yes that's a pet theory of mine - 25/10/2012 09:45:26 PM 1483 Views
Weren't there 150 or so at Maradon? *NM* - 26/10/2012 03:29:53 PM 880 Views
Re: Yes that's a pet theory of mine - 26/10/2012 08:49:58 PM 1538 Views
Perhaps, but if no on in the AoL could do it when mixed circles were common - 28/10/2012 04:22:20 PM 1298 Views
How strong Pevara is... - 25/10/2012 07:08:26 PM 1660 Views
I'm pretty sure Moiraine is closer to 30... - 25/10/2012 07:41:37 PM 1227 Views
Agreed - 25/10/2012 08:37:24 PM 1388 Views
So... the old story of ignore the bell curve, eh? - 26/10/2012 01:40:49 AM 1351 Views
No, I fully respect the bell curve - 26/10/2012 01:51:34 PM 1364 Views
That was disproved long ago... - 26/10/2012 01:36:24 AM 1460 Views
But Moiraine isn't 'exceptionally strong' - 26/10/2012 05:16:10 AM 1387 Views
Not particularly strong evidence for that last. - 26/10/2012 05:36:54 AM 1480 Views
But we know that it takes significantly more strength to maintain multiple weaves - 26/10/2012 08:14:58 AM 1385 Views
Not true - 27/10/2012 09:15:51 PM 1367 Views
Not accurate - 27/10/2012 09:31:05 PM 1270 Views
The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 10:27:34 AM 1319 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 11:40:04 AM 1303 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 12:32:01 PM 1230 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 12:48:51 PM 1366 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 01:07:39 PM 1330 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 01:18:32 PM 1574 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 26/10/2012 01:57:18 PM 1419 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained... - 28/10/2012 02:07:39 PM 1451 Views
Yet Sharina, Nynaeve etc exist, thus the BC is the same - 27/10/2012 09:39:58 PM 1649 Views
The curve is OBVIOUSLY the same... - 28/10/2012 01:50:37 AM 1161 Views
Re: The curve is OBVIOUSLY the same... - 28/10/2012 02:01:59 PM 1272 Views
You need to go read RJ's quotes: - 28/10/2012 02:41:49 PM 1440 Views
Re: You need to go read RJ's quotes: - 28/10/2012 05:39:12 PM 1186 Views
I need to come and save you from blatant fallacies being spouted by the loonies. - 28/10/2012 05:56:21 PM 1200 Views
This is like watching a train-wreck. - 29/10/2012 02:58:51 AM 1189 Views
Re: This is like watching a train-wreck. - 29/10/2012 01:10:35 PM 1392 Views
So what's your conclusion? - 29/10/2012 02:14:33 PM 1161 Views
His conclusion is that RJ was right about the books he wrote... - 29/10/2012 02:19:59 PM 1295 Views
Pretty much... - 30/10/2012 12:57:41 AM 1365 Views
Excellent points... - 29/10/2012 02:16:39 PM 1163 Views
Re: Excellent points... - 29/10/2012 02:47:30 PM 1415 Views
You seem confused. - 29/10/2012 03:22:47 PM 1136 Views
Re: You seem confused. - 29/10/2012 03:41:48 PM 1174 Views
I think the point is that the AS didn't go force every woman in the area - 29/10/2012 07:57:59 PM 1126 Views
Re: You seem confused. - 29/10/2012 08:23:22 PM 1423 Views
Re: You seem confused. - 29/10/2012 08:57:11 PM 1287 Views
He drew graphs! - 30/10/2012 12:49:09 AM 1178 Views
Re: He drew graphs! - 30/10/2012 07:43:54 AM 1442 Views
Re: He drew graphs! - 30/10/2012 01:57:05 PM 1242 Views
Re: Excellent points... - 30/10/2012 12:20:00 AM 1262 Views
Re: Excellent points... - 30/10/2012 07:49:57 AM 1230 Views
Re: Excellent points... - 30/10/2012 01:05:45 PM 1709 Views
Re: Excellent points... - 30/10/2012 01:25:11 PM 1269 Views
Re: Excellent points... - 30/10/2012 12:20:17 AM 1350 Views
AS recruiting is minimal - 28/10/2012 10:41:29 PM 1216 Views
Re: You need to go read RJ's quotes: - 29/10/2012 02:23:27 AM 1217 Views
Re: You need to go read RJ's quotes: - 29/10/2012 07:33:44 AM 1217 Views
Huh? - 29/10/2012 02:26:27 PM 1338 Views
Re: Huh? - 29/10/2012 02:42:07 PM 1163 Views
You don't seem to know what random means... - 29/10/2012 03:25:57 PM 1195 Views
Re: You don't seem to know what random means... - 29/10/2012 03:36:45 PM 1198 Views
Personally I just think that 1000 women being allowed to tag along is a drop - 29/10/2012 08:05:33 PM 1359 Views
Re: Personally I just think that 1000 women being allowed to tag along is a drop - 29/10/2012 09:04:02 PM 1385 Views
Geography alone can do this - 30/10/2012 12:39:53 AM 1189 Views
Re: Geography alone can do this - 30/10/2012 09:45:58 AM 1159 Views
Not really - 30/10/2012 02:49:05 PM 1161 Views
Here's why its not random... - 30/10/2012 01:04:18 AM 1158 Views
Re: Here's why its not random... - 30/10/2012 09:42:35 AM 1431 Views
Re: Here's why its not random... - 30/10/2012 01:51:03 PM 1152 Views
Re: Here's why its not random... - 30/10/2012 02:21:04 PM 1203 Views
YEah, there's no point debating this... - 30/10/2012 02:46:39 PM 1212 Views
Genetics plays a role - 30/10/2012 03:03:41 PM 1430 Views
Re: You don't seem to know what random means... - 29/10/2012 08:22:40 PM 1122 Views
Re: You don't seem to know what random means... - 29/10/2012 09:06:08 PM 1238 Views
Why must there be a mechanism? - 30/10/2012 01:06:29 AM 1191 Views
Re: Why must there be a mechanism? - 30/10/2012 09:48:16 AM 1219 Views
Nope... - 30/10/2012 01:43:56 PM 1326 Views
Re: Nope... - 30/10/2012 02:34:51 PM 1172 Views
Oh my... - 30/10/2012 02:50:12 PM 1200 Views
Thought experment time! Hurrah! - 30/10/2012 03:27:01 PM 1169 Views
But it is still possible in your example to get wildly varied results - 30/10/2012 03:30:59 PM 1119 Views
Re: But it is still possible in your example to get wildly varied results - 30/10/2012 03:36:03 PM 1183 Views
LOL - 30/10/2012 04:49:06 PM 1858 Views
Re: Yet Sharina, Nynaeve etc exist, thus the BC is the same - 28/10/2012 01:39:55 PM 1306 Views
The point is there are still people being born in the highest strength categories - 28/10/2012 04:18:55 PM 1321 Views
Re: The point is there are still people being born in the highest strength categories - 28/10/2012 05:21:44 PM 1184 Views
The curve hasn't shifted! - 28/10/2012 05:39:42 PM 1400 Views
The fact is, Moiraine is not half as strong as Lanfear, hence she is below average strength. - 28/10/2012 06:02:04 PM 1214 Views
How is this fact? - 29/10/2012 02:59:49 AM 1374 Views
Re: How is this fact? - 29/10/2012 07:04:15 PM 1225 Views
Not so - 29/10/2012 08:09:29 PM 1179 Views
Re: Not so - 29/10/2012 08:43:16 PM 1373 Views
Sure it is - 30/10/2012 01:43:39 AM 1320 Views
Explain Elza-Merise-Cadsuane then... - 29/10/2012 08:20:14 PM 1192 Views
Re: Explain Elza-Merise-Cadsuane then... - 29/10/2012 08:38:11 PM 1290 Views
Are you blind man? - 30/10/2012 01:12:26 AM 1215 Views
Re: Are you blind man? - 30/10/2012 09:23:37 AM 1232 Views
Cadsuane is just below Egwene... - 30/10/2012 01:37:54 PM 1162 Views
Your strength scores don't square with the Pevara quote - 30/10/2012 03:15:22 PM 1192 Views
Re: The curve hasn't shifted! - 28/10/2012 07:36:36 PM 1187 Views
On Raw strength scores I think you are pretty inline with my thinking - 27/10/2012 09:37:25 PM 1329 Views
And the facing a Foresaken comment is out of context anyway... - 28/10/2012 01:56:12 AM 1412 Views
Excellent point on raw v. Effective strength *NM* - 28/10/2012 04:13:21 PM 864 Views

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