I need to come and save you from blatant fallacies being spouted by the loonies.
Shannow Send a noteboard - 28/10/2012 05:56:21 PM
Yeah, that's all wrong. For one thing, RJ said strength is distributed over a bell curve, not strength levels. You're plotting the wrong data points.
That said, obviously each level corresponds to a range on the strength scale (whatever it was in RJ's, we can take it to be 1-100 and it will still work the same). The 21 levels are distributed over this scale. We don't know if each level represents an equal interval in the strength scale, but assuming we do, we'd expect a peak around 10/11, which is where you find it. However, you also need to note that the sampling in that list is atrocious. We tend to see and hear more about stronger Aes Sedai and very little about women too weak to become AS. That definitely causes skewing. Plus, the list is very subjective, and tries to make quantitative differences between "strong" and "very strong" and such terms.
That said, obviously each level corresponds to a range on the strength scale (whatever it was in RJ's, we can take it to be 1-100 and it will still work the same). The 21 levels are distributed over this scale. We don't know if each level represents an equal interval in the strength scale, but assuming we do, we'd expect a peak around 10/11, which is where you find it. However, you also need to note that the sampling in that list is atrocious. We tend to see and hear more about stronger Aes Sedai and very little about women too weak to become AS. That definitely causes skewing. Plus, the list is very subjective, and tries to make quantitative differences between "strong" and "very strong" and such terms.
Oh, ok. I always assumed the levels were evenly distributed. Do you know if there exists a large collection of channeler strengths, enough to make a plot?
I guess making a comprehensive list would be like the mother of all those riddles where you get information like "The man in house number two drinks wine" and "The French officer is the neighbour of the man who has a dog".
RJ spoke of the same bell curve holding now. He said strength was distributed over a bell curve. That 67.5% of channelers in that curve would be strong enough to be Aes Sedai. That this is true only in the modern age, since in the AoL, anyone could become Aes Sedai. There's no doubt at all that its the same bell curve.
If RJ said it, why are we discussing it? Do you have a link to the quote?
But really, 67.5% of the channeling population strong enough to be Aes Sedai? Aren't they sending away a majority of the novices and accepted because they aren't strong enough? Or is it because the majority don't have "what it takes to be Aes Sedai"?
Firstly, channeling strength IS linked to genetics. It is blatantly incorrect to say that it is solely linked to the soul.
In fact, it is linked to both the soul and the body. If Lews Therin's soul was reborn into a body that does not have sufficient strength, he will be weaker in the One Power than in his previous incarnation.
So yes, a weaker channeling gene pool will serve to reduce average strength.
Secondly, great work in applying a Bell Curve to the estimated channeler strengths of known channelers. It indeed clearly shows that the curve now spikes way lower than it did in the Age of Legends.
Furthermore, RJ has confirmed that 62.5% of female channelers are strong enough to pass the Aes Sedai test (meaning they are as strong as Daigian or stronger). This means that only 12.5% of channelers lie between Daigian and the average strength channeler.
We know that Daigian is roughly one third as strong as Moiraine. And we know that Lanfear is FAR more than twice as strong as Moiraine (meaning that Moiraine has to lie below the average strength channeler).
All of this tells us that all modern Aes Sedai come from less than 12.5% of the total female channeling population. This HAS to be the case, because if 37.5% lie below Daigian, then 12.5% lie between Daigian and the average strength, and if Moiraine lies BELOW the average strength, then all modern sisters who fall between Daigian and Moiraine come from LESS than 12.5% of the total channeling population.
There it is. Irrefutable, if you believe in the Bell Curve hypothesis.
This message last edited by Shannow on 28/10/2012 at 06:00:30 PM
Ch2 : Pevara & Androl and channeling implications
- 24/10/2012 06:40:47 PM
2979 Views
Did Perva actually initiate the link or was it Androl? *NM*
- 24/10/2012 07:02:15 PM
783 Views
Androl did. *NM*
- 25/10/2012 05:10:31 AM
1020 Views
But didn't Nynaeve do it first at the cleansing?
- 25/10/2012 12:43:15 PM
1296 Views
Pevara was thinking on very sketchy information.
- 25/10/2012 08:56:20 PM
1249 Views
Re: Ch2 : Pevara & Androl and channeling implications
- 25/10/2012 05:13:43 AM
1451 Views
Travelling
- 25/10/2012 08:56:41 AM
1272 Views
Yes that's a pet theory of mine
- 25/10/2012 04:21:53 PM
1292 Views
Re: Yes that's a pet theory of mine
- 25/10/2012 06:12:21 PM
1226 Views
Re: Yes that's a pet theory of mine
- 25/10/2012 08:50:15 PM
1130 Views
Perhaps, but if no on in the AoL could do it when mixed circles were common
- 28/10/2012 04:22:20 PM
1028 Views
How strong Pevara is...
- 25/10/2012 07:08:26 PM
1375 Views
I'm pretty sure Moiraine is closer to 30...
- 25/10/2012 07:41:37 PM
1066 Views
Agreed
- 25/10/2012 08:37:24 PM
1179 Views
That was disproved long ago...
- 26/10/2012 01:36:24 AM
1175 Views
But Moiraine isn't 'exceptionally strong'
- 26/10/2012 05:16:10 AM
1197 Views
Not particularly strong evidence for that last.
- 26/10/2012 05:36:54 AM
1163 Views
But we know that it takes significantly more strength to maintain multiple weaves
- 26/10/2012 08:14:58 AM
1089 Views
The Bell Curve explained...
- 26/10/2012 10:27:34 AM
1129 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained...
- 26/10/2012 11:40:04 AM
1116 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained...
- 26/10/2012 12:32:01 PM
1040 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained...
- 26/10/2012 12:48:51 PM
1173 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained...
- 26/10/2012 01:07:39 PM
1150 Views
Re: The Bell Curve explained...
- 26/10/2012 01:18:32 PM
1198 Views
Yet Sharina, Nynaeve etc exist, thus the BC is the same
- 27/10/2012 09:39:58 PM
1272 Views
The curve is OBVIOUSLY the same...
- 28/10/2012 01:50:37 AM
984 Views
Re: The curve is OBVIOUSLY the same...
- 28/10/2012 02:01:59 PM
1074 Views
You need to go read RJ's quotes:
- 28/10/2012 02:41:49 PM
1125 Views
Re: You need to go read RJ's quotes:
- 28/10/2012 05:39:12 PM
1013 Views
I need to come and save you from blatant fallacies being spouted by the loonies.
- 28/10/2012 05:56:21 PM
1018 Views
Re: I need to come and save you from blatant fallacies being spouted by the loonies.
- 28/10/2012 07:44:02 PM
1084 Views
This is like watching a train-wreck.
- 29/10/2012 02:58:51 AM
990 Views
Re: This is like watching a train-wreck.
- 29/10/2012 01:10:35 PM
1210 Views
So what's your conclusion?
- 29/10/2012 02:14:33 PM
993 Views
you do realize that is an impossible question to answer from the books right?
- 29/10/2012 07:50:02 PM
1116 Views
Excellent points...
- 29/10/2012 02:16:39 PM
968 Views
Re: Excellent points...
- 29/10/2012 02:47:30 PM
1108 Views
You seem confused.
- 29/10/2012 03:22:47 PM
960 Views
Re: You seem confused.
- 29/10/2012 03:41:48 PM
1004 Views
I think the point is that the AS didn't go force every woman in the area
- 29/10/2012 07:57:59 PM
952 Views
Re: You seem confused.
- 29/10/2012 08:23:22 PM
1143 Views
Re: You seem confused.
- 29/10/2012 08:57:11 PM
1109 Views
He drew graphs!
- 30/10/2012 12:49:09 AM
1003 Views
He drew graphs!
- 30/10/2012 12:49:09 AM
1003 Views
Re: Excellent points...
- 30/10/2012 12:20:00 AM
1051 Views
Re: Excellent points...
- 30/10/2012 07:49:57 AM
1043 Views
Re: You need to go read RJ's quotes:
- 29/10/2012 02:23:27 AM
1007 Views
Re: You need to go read RJ's quotes:
- 29/10/2012 07:33:44 AM
1028 Views
Huh?
- 29/10/2012 02:26:27 PM
1045 Views
Re: Huh?
- 29/10/2012 02:42:07 PM
980 Views
You don't seem to know what random means...
- 29/10/2012 03:25:57 PM
1005 Views
Re: You don't seem to know what random means...
- 29/10/2012 03:36:45 PM
1024 Views
Personally I just think that 1000 women being allowed to tag along is a drop
- 29/10/2012 08:05:33 PM
1053 Views
Re: Personally I just think that 1000 women being allowed to tag along is a drop
- 29/10/2012 09:04:02 PM
1088 Views
Geography alone can do this
- 30/10/2012 12:39:53 AM
1002 Views
Here's why its not random...
- 30/10/2012 01:04:18 AM
972 Views
Re: Here's why its not random...
- 30/10/2012 09:42:35 AM
1132 Views
Re: Here's why its not random...
- 30/10/2012 01:51:03 PM
973 Views
Re: You don't seem to know what random means...
- 29/10/2012 08:22:40 PM
960 Views
Re: You don't seem to know what random means...
- 29/10/2012 09:06:08 PM
1019 Views
Why must there be a mechanism?
- 30/10/2012 01:06:29 AM
983 Views
Re: Why must there be a mechanism?
- 30/10/2012 09:48:16 AM
939 Views
Nope...
- 30/10/2012 01:43:56 PM
1135 Views
Re: Nope...
- 30/10/2012 02:34:51 PM
979 Views
Oh my...
- 30/10/2012 02:50:12 PM
1034 Views
Thought experment time! Hurrah!
- 30/10/2012 03:27:01 PM
981 Views
But it is still possible in your example to get wildly varied results
- 30/10/2012 03:30:59 PM
924 Views
Re: But it is still possible in your example to get wildly varied results
- 30/10/2012 03:36:03 PM
1015 Views
Re: Yet Sharina, Nynaeve etc exist, thus the BC is the same
- 28/10/2012 01:39:55 PM
989 Views
The point is there are still people being born in the highest strength categories
- 28/10/2012 04:18:55 PM
1046 Views
Re: The point is there are still people being born in the highest strength categories
- 28/10/2012 05:21:44 PM
1010 Views
The curve hasn't shifted!
- 28/10/2012 05:39:42 PM
1123 Views
The fact is, Moiraine is not half as strong as Lanfear, hence she is below average strength.
- 28/10/2012 06:02:04 PM
1049 Views
Re: The fact is, Moiraine is not half as strong as Lanfear, hence she is below average strength.
- 28/10/2012 07:27:26 PM
973 Views
There is not a single quote in the series that states Moiraine is less than half the strength
- 28/10/2012 10:31:28 PM
1028 Views
How is this fact?
- 29/10/2012 02:59:49 AM
1087 Views
Re: How is this fact?
- 29/10/2012 07:04:15 PM
1032 Views
Explain Elza-Merise-Cadsuane then...
- 29/10/2012 08:20:14 PM
1000 Views
Re: Explain Elza-Merise-Cadsuane then...
- 29/10/2012 08:38:11 PM
1069 Views
Are you blind man?
- 30/10/2012 01:12:26 AM
1024 Views
Re: The curve hasn't shifted!
- 28/10/2012 07:36:36 PM
1020 Views
Well the most obvious thing is that RJ was quoted on the subject any number of times
- 28/10/2012 11:34:18 PM
1046 Views
On Raw strength scores I think you are pretty inline with my thinking
- 27/10/2012 09:37:25 PM
1158 Views
