It's only as skewed as it seems when you make the assumption that the Forsaken
darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 31/10/2012 04:34:11 AM
are unnecessarily stronger than they need to be. You and Sidious obess with the strength level of the Forsaken. But Lanfear doesn't need to be 5x Moiraine to explain what she is capable of, we are shown this when she was able to fight Alivia to a stand still despite a massive strength difference and the differential the Paralis Net gave Alivia. Strength is not what sets the Forsaken apart from the modern Channelers, training is!
RJ noted the Forsaken don't measure themselves via Strength and we hear them deride the training of modern AS almost every time it comes up. Certainly they note great strength in women such as Elayne, Nyneave, Someryn etc, but they only worry about them when training becomes an issue ... As Graendal points out to Sammael.
I don't need a Bell Curve to see raw power is not the driver for the Forsaken's appearance of vast Power. I just need to see them in action. Graendal's ability with Compulsion is among the most potent abilities in the series. With it she took on 2 other Forsaken and managed to come out on top. Semirhage didn't need huge volumes of Power to accomplish her deeds nor did Lanfear or Mesaana or any of the others. Certainly they are all close to the very top strength levels, but just as clearly there were dozens like them in the AoL who did not survive. They don't even need to be even significantly stronger than most AS to appear vastly more powerful. The training they have is far beyond what any AS can even dream of ... Couple that with being 2x the strongest AS and there is no way any AS or even most small circles could stand a chance beyond what we saw at the Cleansing. Each of the circles we saw there would have needed to be significantly stronger than an individual Forsaken to stand any chance, and none of them were more than 3 individuals and none of these individuals were of particularly significant strength, with the possible exception of Flinn.
In reality the Forsaken are probably no more than 25%-30% Stronger than Cadsuane who is 1.5x a Strong AS since she is around the same strength as Elza and Merise combined. But as Cadsuane notes most modern AS don't learn more than the standard AS weaves and almost never innovate or experiment. Mean while the Forsaken are among the most well trained individuals who ever lived. They don't need massive strength advantages to be practically gods in comparison to an AS. I see their training as the major differentiator. It is like having a PHD in English face off with a 2nd grader in a spelling bee. It's not just the IQ score you'd think about there.
RJ noted the Forsaken don't measure themselves via Strength and we hear them deride the training of modern AS almost every time it comes up. Certainly they note great strength in women such as Elayne, Nyneave, Someryn etc, but they only worry about them when training becomes an issue ... As Graendal points out to Sammael.
I don't need a Bell Curve to see raw power is not the driver for the Forsaken's appearance of vast Power. I just need to see them in action. Graendal's ability with Compulsion is among the most potent abilities in the series. With it she took on 2 other Forsaken and managed to come out on top. Semirhage didn't need huge volumes of Power to accomplish her deeds nor did Lanfear or Mesaana or any of the others. Certainly they are all close to the very top strength levels, but just as clearly there were dozens like them in the AoL who did not survive. They don't even need to be even significantly stronger than most AS to appear vastly more powerful. The training they have is far beyond what any AS can even dream of ... Couple that with being 2x the strongest AS and there is no way any AS or even most small circles could stand a chance beyond what we saw at the Cleansing. Each of the circles we saw there would have needed to be significantly stronger than an individual Forsaken to stand any chance, and none of them were more than 3 individuals and none of these individuals were of particularly significant strength, with the possible exception of Flinn.
In reality the Forsaken are probably no more than 25%-30% Stronger than Cadsuane who is 1.5x a Strong AS since she is around the same strength as Elza and Merise combined. But as Cadsuane notes most modern AS don't learn more than the standard AS weaves and almost never innovate or experiment. Mean while the Forsaken are among the most well trained individuals who ever lived. They don't need massive strength advantages to be practically gods in comparison to an AS. I see their training as the major differentiator. It is like having a PHD in English face off with a 2nd grader in a spelling bee. It's not just the IQ score you'd think about there.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
This message last edited by darius_sedai on 31/10/2012 at 04:47:57 AM
The Bell Curve revisited
29/10/2012 09:44:09 AM
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Re: The Bell Curve revisited
29/10/2012 10:21:27 AM
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That's incorrect...
29/10/2012 10:26:49 AM
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Re: That's incorrect...
29/10/2012 10:36:32 AM
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Re: That's incorrect...
29/10/2012 10:40:27 AM
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Re: That's incorrect...
29/10/2012 10:42:57 AM
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Hehe...There are a few disputing it vocally. Whether they're in their right mind, well...
29/10/2012 10:45:07 AM
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Re: Hehe...There are a few disputing it vocally. Whether they're in their right mind, well...
29/10/2012 10:49:49 AM
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Re: Hehe...There are a few disputing it vocally. Whether they're in their right mind, well...
29/10/2012 10:56:37 AM
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It's only as skewed as it seems when you make the assumption that the Forsaken
31/10/2012 04:34:11 AM
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RJ the physicist didn't know math, so that Shannow could be right...
29/10/2012 02:11:19 PM
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Re: RJ the physicist didn't know math, so that Shannow could be right...
29/10/2012 02:37:33 PM
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there are dozens of reasons for this
29/10/2012 08:18:18 PM
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Re: there are dozens of reasons for this
29/10/2012 09:07:35 PM
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Again I don't argue that genetics play no role
30/10/2012 01:57:24 AM
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Once again just so,we are clear on my stance with Genetics and Strength
30/10/2012 03:27:11 PM
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That the 1000 Novices aren't a random sample of the population?
29/10/2012 08:23:47 PM
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And why would it be biased towards those with lower strength?
29/10/2012 09:11:25 PM
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Absolutely no reason...
30/10/2012 01:35:35 AM
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Re: Absolutely no reason...
30/10/2012 06:43:54 AM
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Only if it was a random sampling. Which this is not.
30/10/2012 01:58:34 PM
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That's exactly the point. I want you to explain why it wasn't random.
30/10/2012 02:14:59 PM
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It wasn't random because it was a self-selected sample!
30/10/2012 02:43:03 PM
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Re: It wasn't random because it was a self-selected sample!
30/10/2012 02:47:30 PM
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Go read a stats text will you?
30/10/2012 02:54:16 PM
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Done
31/10/2012 09:34:11 AM
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You seem to have perfected whining to a Talent...
10/11/2012 10:14:19 PM
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Re: You seem to have perfected whining to a Talent...
11/11/2012 11:37:16 AM
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Seriously? I went and looked at some statistics books, and you won't even reply?
01/11/2012 12:13:49 PM
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Yes that totally makes sense
30/10/2012 08:07:16 AM
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That's not what happened...
30/10/2012 02:01:52 PM
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I hate to get into these things
29/10/2012 05:45:50 PM
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I would love for you to be right, because it would solve all our problems, but 0 is the challenge...
29/10/2012 07:56:34 PM
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In the truest sense, you are probably right that it is skewed
29/10/2012 08:20:52 PM
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Overwhelm Lanfear, not match her. *NM*
29/10/2012 08:26:09 PM
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Truth is, Moiraine was being overly optimistic...
29/10/2012 08:39:17 PM
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You're pathetic...
30/10/2012 01:20:01 AM
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The quote isn't specific
30/10/2012 08:32:36 AM
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Yet neither of them are at full potential and at least equal a Forsaken
30/10/2012 03:45:24 PM
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Re: In the truest sense, you are probably right that it is skewed
29/10/2012 09:10:27 PM
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Lots of people mean perfectly normal distribution when they say it
30/10/2012 05:25:35 PM
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Couldn't the Towers method of obtaining Aes Sedai be to blame?
30/10/2012 12:04:01 AM
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Re: Couldn't the Towers method of obtaining Aes Sedai be to blame?
30/10/2012 09:33:44 AM
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Are you sure about that?
30/10/2012 12:03:43 PM
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Re: Are you sure about that?
30/10/2012 12:19:34 PM
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That doesn't seem a coherent narrative to me
30/10/2012 04:26:25 PM
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Sharina did not have the Spark, nor did Nicola
30/10/2012 05:16:40 PM
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Re: Sharina did not have the Spark, nor did Nicola
30/10/2012 05:54:41 PM
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We do not know if Cadsuane or any of the Forsaken are Sparkers
30/10/2012 10:33:55 PM
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Re: We do not know if Cadsuane or any of the Forsaken are Sparkers
31/10/2012 12:30:52 AM
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A handful of examples are all we have and we have proof that an extremely strong Channeler
31/10/2012 02:58:57 AM
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you're confusing 2 things
30/10/2012 04:27:32 AM
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One thing
30/10/2012 05:23:17 PM
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That's the problem. The BC RJ has "built" has a minimum and a maximum value
30/10/2012 05:48:55 PM
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