It's only as skewed as it seems when you make the assumption that the Forsaken
darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 31/10/2012 04:34:11 AM
are unnecessarily stronger than they need to be. You and Sidious obess with the strength level of the Forsaken. But Lanfear doesn't need to be 5x Moiraine to explain what she is capable of, we are shown this when she was able to fight Alivia to a stand still despite a massive strength difference and the differential the Paralis Net gave Alivia. Strength is not what sets the Forsaken apart from the modern Channelers, training is!
RJ noted the Forsaken don't measure themselves via Strength and we hear them deride the training of modern AS almost every time it comes up. Certainly they note great strength in women such as Elayne, Nyneave, Someryn etc, but they only worry about them when training becomes an issue ... As Graendal points out to Sammael.
I don't need a Bell Curve to see raw power is not the driver for the Forsaken's appearance of vast Power. I just need to see them in action. Graendal's ability with Compulsion is among the most potent abilities in the series. With it she took on 2 other Forsaken and managed to come out on top. Semirhage didn't need huge volumes of Power to accomplish her deeds nor did Lanfear or Mesaana or any of the others. Certainly they are all close to the very top strength levels, but just as clearly there were dozens like them in the AoL who did not survive. They don't even need to be even significantly stronger than most AS to appear vastly more powerful. The training they have is far beyond what any AS can even dream of ... Couple that with being 2x the strongest AS and there is no way any AS or even most small circles could stand a chance beyond what we saw at the Cleansing. Each of the circles we saw there would have needed to be significantly stronger than an individual Forsaken to stand any chance, and none of them were more than 3 individuals and none of these individuals were of particularly significant strength, with the possible exception of Flinn.
In reality the Forsaken are probably no more than 25%-30% Stronger than Cadsuane who is 1.5x a Strong AS since she is around the same strength as Elza and Merise combined. But as Cadsuane notes most modern AS don't learn more than the standard AS weaves and almost never innovate or experiment. Mean while the Forsaken are among the most well trained individuals who ever lived. They don't need massive strength advantages to be practically gods in comparison to an AS. I see their training as the major differentiator. It is like having a PHD in English face off with a 2nd grader in a spelling bee. It's not just the IQ score you'd think about there.
RJ noted the Forsaken don't measure themselves via Strength and we hear them deride the training of modern AS almost every time it comes up. Certainly they note great strength in women such as Elayne, Nyneave, Someryn etc, but they only worry about them when training becomes an issue ... As Graendal points out to Sammael.
I don't need a Bell Curve to see raw power is not the driver for the Forsaken's appearance of vast Power. I just need to see them in action. Graendal's ability with Compulsion is among the most potent abilities in the series. With it she took on 2 other Forsaken and managed to come out on top. Semirhage didn't need huge volumes of Power to accomplish her deeds nor did Lanfear or Mesaana or any of the others. Certainly they are all close to the very top strength levels, but just as clearly there were dozens like them in the AoL who did not survive. They don't even need to be even significantly stronger than most AS to appear vastly more powerful. The training they have is far beyond what any AS can even dream of ... Couple that with being 2x the strongest AS and there is no way any AS or even most small circles could stand a chance beyond what we saw at the Cleansing. Each of the circles we saw there would have needed to be significantly stronger than an individual Forsaken to stand any chance, and none of them were more than 3 individuals and none of these individuals were of particularly significant strength, with the possible exception of Flinn.
In reality the Forsaken are probably no more than 25%-30% Stronger than Cadsuane who is 1.5x a Strong AS since she is around the same strength as Elza and Merise combined. But as Cadsuane notes most modern AS don't learn more than the standard AS weaves and almost never innovate or experiment. Mean while the Forsaken are among the most well trained individuals who ever lived. They don't need massive strength advantages to be practically gods in comparison to an AS. I see their training as the major differentiator. It is like having a PHD in English face off with a 2nd grader in a spelling bee. It's not just the IQ score you'd think about there.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
This message last edited by darius_sedai on 31/10/2012 at 04:47:57 AM
The Bell Curve revisited
- 29/10/2012 09:44:09 AM
1811 Views
Re: The Bell Curve revisited
- 29/10/2012 10:21:27 AM
1174 Views
That's incorrect...
- 29/10/2012 10:26:49 AM
1743 Views
Re: That's incorrect...
- 29/10/2012 10:36:32 AM
1134 Views
Re: That's incorrect...
- 29/10/2012 10:40:27 AM
977 Views
Re: That's incorrect...
- 29/10/2012 10:42:57 AM
962 Views
Hehe...There are a few disputing it vocally. Whether they're in their right mind, well...
- 29/10/2012 10:45:07 AM
1078 Views
Re: Hehe...There are a few disputing it vocally. Whether they're in their right mind, well...
- 29/10/2012 10:49:49 AM
965 Views
Re: Hehe...There are a few disputing it vocally. Whether they're in their right mind, well...
- 29/10/2012 10:56:37 AM
1049 Views
It's only as skewed as it seems when you make the assumption that the Forsaken
- 31/10/2012 04:34:11 AM
1315 Views
RJ the physicist didn't know math, so that Shannow could be right...
- 29/10/2012 02:11:19 PM
1076 Views
Re: RJ the physicist didn't know math, so that Shannow could be right...
- 29/10/2012 02:37:33 PM
1001 Views
there are dozens of reasons for this
- 29/10/2012 08:18:18 PM
1028 Views
Re: there are dozens of reasons for this
- 29/10/2012 09:07:35 PM
966 Views
Again I don't argue that genetics play no role
- 30/10/2012 01:57:24 AM
958 Views
Once again just so,we are clear on my stance with Genetics and Strength
- 30/10/2012 03:27:11 PM
956 Views
That the 1000 Novices aren't a random sample of the population?
- 29/10/2012 08:23:47 PM
898 Views
And why would it be biased towards those with lower strength?
- 29/10/2012 09:11:25 PM
922 Views
Absolutely no reason...
- 30/10/2012 01:35:35 AM
1018 Views
Re: Absolutely no reason...
- 30/10/2012 06:43:54 AM
931 Views
Only if it was a random sampling. Which this is not.
- 30/10/2012 01:58:34 PM
1020 Views
That's exactly the point. I want you to explain why it wasn't random.
- 30/10/2012 02:14:59 PM
945 Views
It wasn't random because it was a self-selected sample!
- 30/10/2012 02:43:03 PM
934 Views
Re: It wasn't random because it was a self-selected sample!
- 30/10/2012 02:47:30 PM
926 Views
Go read a stats text will you?
- 30/10/2012 02:54:16 PM
917 Views
Done
- 31/10/2012 09:34:11 AM
1724 Views
You seem to have perfected whining to a Talent...
- 10/11/2012 10:14:19 PM
1227 Views
Re: You seem to have perfected whining to a Talent...
- 11/11/2012 11:37:16 AM
1046 Views
Seriously? I went and looked at some statistics books, and you won't even reply?
- 01/11/2012 12:13:49 PM
1038 Views
Yes that totally makes sense
- 30/10/2012 08:07:16 AM
1043 Views
- 30/10/2012 08:07:16 AM
1043 Views
That's not what happened...
- 30/10/2012 02:01:52 PM
1023 Views
I hate to get into these things
- 29/10/2012 05:45:50 PM
1107 Views
I would love for you to be right, because it would solve all our problems, but 0 is the challenge...
- 29/10/2012 07:56:34 PM
1091 Views
In the truest sense, you are probably right that it is skewed
- 29/10/2012 08:20:52 PM
1086 Views
Overwhelm Lanfear, not match her. *NM*
- 29/10/2012 08:26:09 PM
568 Views
Truth is, Moiraine was being overly optimistic...
- 29/10/2012 08:39:17 PM
1019 Views
You're pathetic...
- 30/10/2012 01:20:01 AM
930 Views
The quote isn't specific
- 30/10/2012 08:32:36 AM
1053 Views
Yet neither of them are at full potential and at least equal a Forsaken
- 30/10/2012 03:45:24 PM
1551 Views
Re: In the truest sense, you are probably right that it is skewed
- 29/10/2012 09:10:27 PM
995 Views
Lots of people mean perfectly normal distribution when they say it
- 30/10/2012 05:25:35 PM
946 Views
Couldn't the Towers method of obtaining Aes Sedai be to blame?
- 30/10/2012 12:04:01 AM
1150 Views
Re: Couldn't the Towers method of obtaining Aes Sedai be to blame?
- 30/10/2012 09:33:44 AM
1076 Views
Are you sure about that?
- 30/10/2012 12:03:43 PM
1052 Views
Re: Are you sure about that?
- 30/10/2012 12:19:34 PM
968 Views
That doesn't seem a coherent narrative to me
- 30/10/2012 04:26:25 PM
1304 Views
Sharina did not have the Spark, nor did Nicola
- 30/10/2012 05:16:40 PM
1073 Views
Re: Sharina did not have the Spark, nor did Nicola
- 30/10/2012 05:54:41 PM
939 Views
We do not know if Cadsuane or any of the Forsaken are Sparkers
- 30/10/2012 10:33:55 PM
1112 Views
Re: We do not know if Cadsuane or any of the Forsaken are Sparkers
- 31/10/2012 12:30:52 AM
1050 Views
A handful of examples are all we have and we have proof that an extremely strong Channeler
- 31/10/2012 02:58:57 AM
921 Views
you're confusing 2 things
- 30/10/2012 04:27:32 AM
1238 Views
One thing
- 30/10/2012 05:23:17 PM
1031 Views
That's the problem. The BC RJ has "built" has a minimum and a maximum value
- 30/10/2012 05:48:55 PM
1052 Views
