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Re: Aside from successfuly orchastrate the coup what has she done? Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 30/09/2009 02:29:37 AM
More accurately, violent disgust.

So, Elaida is a power-obsessed despot. That's nothing new. But she used to be a formidable power-obsessed despot. Where is your knitting or your ivory figurines, Elaida? When she sent Alviarin crying to Mesaana in Crossroads of Twilight (and some people say nothing happened in that book...) I figured, 'this is what happens when you mess with this power-obsessed despot'. Elaida was a tyrannical egotist, but she got things done. Shrieking like a caricature over spilled soup on her carpet? Not impressive.



Elaida was never formidable. Oh she looked imposing to people who didn't know any better but it was all a front. She was always incompetent and never had her emotions under control.


What success can be laid at her feet?


She was raised to the Shawl in a very short time, and then became the White Tower's representative to one of their most important allies. She got Morgase (and Gareth Bryne) to follow Tower priorities, which was apparently difficult (though why is not something I'm too clear about). She overthrew Siuan, she broke the Black Ajah's stranglehold on the Amyrlin Seat. But more importantly, she has been described as formidable several times throughout the series, including by Siuan. Evidently, one cannot compare the perspective of the lost farmboy Rand in The Eye of the World to the perspective of a rival Amyrlin in this chapter, but there has still been a considerable shift in her characterisation. This is itself admitted in the work itself, when Egwene thinks: She joked - joked! - about how she had stolen the shawl from a woman, humiliating her to such an extent that she fled the Tower. Light! What had happened to Elaida? Egwene had met this woman before, and Elaida had struck her as stern, but not tyrannical. Power changed people. It appeared that, in Elaida's case, holding the Amyrlin Seat had taken her sternness and solemnity and replaced them with a heady sense of entitlement and cruelty.
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter

Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
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Your thoughts about TGS - chapter 2 *spoilers* - 24/09/2009 03:17:07 PM 7118 Views
Mind-numbingly boring... - 24/09/2009 04:22:52 PM 1870 Views
I thought it was excellent *NM* - 24/09/2009 04:32:05 PM 1080 Views
Only for someone who can't read between the lines. - 24/09/2009 07:40:18 PM 1716 Views
I adored it. *NM* - 24/09/2009 08:37:38 PM 928 Views
Agreed, but only because of the incredibly slow audio reading. FORTY-FIVE minutes for ONE chapter!!! *NM* - 25/09/2009 06:08:27 AM 977 Views
EVERY Chapter in the entire series is read that way. - 25/09/2009 01:40:07 PM 1385 Views
Yup, they're a lot of fun to listen to. - 26/09/2009 08:26:52 PM 1319 Views
Agreed. As for the speed issue... - 28/09/2009 02:11:13 PM 1240 Views
Cannoli’s journal of listening to “The Nature of Pain.” - 28/09/2009 01:03:35 PM 1889 Views
Chapter summary - 24/09/2009 04:31:01 PM 1972 Views
sounds like its RJs work from the dialogue *NM* - 24/09/2009 04:33:57 PM 851 Views
I agree - I'm certain it was RJ *NM* - 24/09/2009 04:36:12 PM 1012 Views
Agreed. It was RJ through and through. *NM* - 24/09/2009 04:36:13 PM 909 Views
+1 - 25/09/2009 06:03:44 AM 1393 Views
I should disagree - 26/09/2009 10:34:58 PM 1501 Views
Jordan left tons of background info in notes - 27/09/2009 07:36:11 PM 1393 Views
Re: Chapter summary - 24/09/2009 06:50:36 PM 1565 Views
Can someone explain to me where Egwene developed this immense love for the Tower? - 24/09/2009 04:44:28 PM 1569 Views
Well, she's replaced everything else in her life with the Tower. - 24/09/2009 04:47:05 PM 1575 Views
I always thought it was the small town thing - 24/09/2009 04:50:19 PM 1509 Views
Could it be that Fain could have contaminated her in tFOH? - 24/09/2009 04:51:56 PM 1447 Views
Can Fain do that? - 24/09/2009 04:53:57 PM 1424 Views
No he can't (couldn't) - 24/09/2009 05:02:21 PM 1640 Views
So you're saying that an antagonist is being portrayed as idiotic in this series? No way! - 24/09/2009 04:58:15 PM 1537 Views
I this case, I'm quite forgiving - 24/09/2009 05:36:59 PM 1438 Views
What has Gawyn done that demonstrates stupidity? - 28/09/2009 05:21:39 AM 1402 Views
Ambitious people are like that - 24/09/2009 05:08:27 PM 1475 Views
Re: Can someone explain to me where Egwene developed this immense love for the Tower? - 24/09/2009 06:01:46 PM 1416 Views
I don't think its necessarily for the tower itself - 24/09/2009 08:30:15 PM 1400 Views
This made my morning happy. - 24/09/2009 04:45:08 PM 1508 Views
I think it's different. - 24/09/2009 05:51:11 PM 1534 Views
True. - 24/09/2009 07:21:36 PM 1572 Views
Re: True. - 24/09/2009 07:30:06 PM 1423 Views
Re: I think it's different. - 25/09/2009 03:24:22 AM 1407 Views
There's still a difference... - 25/09/2009 04:28:55 AM 1323 Views
Re: There's still a difference... - 26/09/2009 12:30:28 PM 1340 Views
But... - 26/09/2009 03:44:31 PM 1364 Views
Re: But... - 26/09/2009 04:08:35 PM 1371 Views
She could have not bungled up... - 26/09/2009 05:17:02 PM 1151 Views
In PoD, it is revealed that Alviarin makes Elaida swear obedience to her. - 26/09/2009 07:48:01 PM 1411 Views
he's saying that. - 26/09/2009 10:12:16 PM 1270 Views
She also deposes Alviarin... - 26/09/2009 10:47:07 PM 1309 Views
Egwene matured a bit, BUT - 24/09/2009 04:51:53 PM 1400 Views
Ever had rancid oil? - 01/10/2009 08:42:59 PM 2127 Views
Is Alviarin finished? - 24/09/2009 04:52:31 PM 1517 Views
Two possibilities that come to mind - 24/09/2009 05:11:41 PM 1442 Views
Or - 24/09/2009 05:45:36 PM 1622 Views
Best idea ^ *NM* - 24/09/2009 08:27:15 PM 1218 Views
Egwene knows about the letter, and soon the BA hunters will too. - 24/09/2009 07:46:34 PM 1497 Views
She's got to be 'raised' to the shawl first, to take the 4 oaths. - 24/09/2009 10:33:42 PM 1400 Views
No they don't - 24/09/2009 11:03:09 PM 1303 Views
Oh, I thought you meant Elaida's new obedience oath *NM* - 25/09/2009 09:15:48 AM 896 Views
Her part will probably be... - 24/09/2009 06:06:08 PM 1466 Views
I think her mission has changed. - 24/09/2009 06:08:11 PM 1237 Views
Re: Is Alviarin finished? - 24/09/2009 09:08:29 PM 1365 Views
Good 1st chapter of Egwene's plotline! - 24/09/2009 05:15:32 PM 1458 Views
Painful to listen to - 24/09/2009 05:33:22 PM 1519 Views
Not finished it yet - 24/09/2009 05:42:18 PM 1601 Views
WHITE! - 24/09/2009 06:20:43 PM 1437 Views
Not White! (spoilers) And Seanchan attack idea. - 28/09/2009 02:26:06 AM 1475 Views
Yes, Mesaana's plain white dress seems somewhat peculiar - 24/09/2009 06:43:45 PM 1572 Views
But what if she has no choice but to stay? - 24/09/2009 08:02:01 PM 1249 Views
Are you kidding? Moridin would kill her - 24/09/2009 10:50:34 PM 1328 Views
She doesn't.. - 25/09/2009 06:36:22 AM 1311 Views
If this is true, it could be a ploy - 25/09/2009 03:06:45 AM 1399 Views
Plus, it avoids getting tangled in the Black Ajah hunt - 25/09/2009 03:11:38 AM 1231 Views
I struggle to think of Mesaana as a novice - 25/09/2009 05:16:57 AM 1419 Views
I disagree - 25/09/2009 11:08:34 AM 1517 Views
nice idea *NM* - 24/09/2009 08:29:56 PM 834 Views
I liked it *Spoilers* - 24/09/2009 05:49:41 PM 1412 Views
I think... - 24/09/2009 07:01:42 PM 1588 Views
Re: I think... - 24/09/2009 07:33:34 PM 1199 Views
Re: I think... - 24/09/2009 08:00:09 PM 1556 Views
Wasn't there a high turnover in War of Power as well? - 24/09/2009 08:07:38 PM 1254 Views
Re: Wasn't there a high turnover in War of Power as well? - 25/09/2009 03:43:22 PM 1420 Views
Chosen have been mindtrapped before - 25/09/2009 04:32:18 PM 1188 Views
Re: I think... - 25/09/2009 07:25:34 PM 1329 Views
Surely worse happened in the War of Power though before the seals were laid - 24/09/2009 07:58:54 PM 1366 Views
I was totally caught off guard! - 24/09/2009 05:50:39 PM 1409 Views
I all excited! - 24/09/2009 06:26:23 PM 1327 Views
Yay - 24/09/2009 07:00:41 PM 1588 Views
Egwene is arrogant as ever...thinking Rand can't possibly get along without guidance *NM* - 24/09/2009 08:25:24 PM 1073 Views
is she wrong? - 24/09/2009 08:34:44 PM 1479 Views
The problem is that Egwene isn't honest with herself. Two afterthouts as edits - 24/09/2009 08:43:38 PM 1595 Views
Re: The problem is that Egwene isn't honest with herself. - 24/09/2009 08:46:09 PM 1425 Views
I'm sure Moridin knows how to too - 27/09/2009 03:59:49 PM 1359 Views
Re: is she wrong? - 25/09/2009 03:38:09 AM 1483 Views
Re: is she wrong? - 25/09/2009 04:30:28 AM 1266 Views
You're totally wrong - 25/09/2009 02:23:27 PM 1431 Views
Re: You're totally wrong - 25/09/2009 03:32:22 PM 1380 Views
but she was absolutely essential in the successful completion - 29/09/2009 02:55:13 PM 1650 Views
I like Egwene but I didn't like her statement - 25/09/2009 05:03:33 AM 1555 Views
I agree, and one more reason why I agree - 25/09/2009 02:27:44 PM 1492 Views
I disagree in some ways - 25/09/2009 03:23:35 PM 1247 Views
I agree, and that is Rand's problem in the first place. - 25/09/2009 07:27:22 PM 1406 Views
Rand should invoke the 'Law of War' against the DO - 25/09/2009 06:19:56 AM 1358 Views
She wants part of the glory. *NM* - 25/09/2009 06:31:47 AM 814 Views
What will happen first: black ajah hunt ends or Seanchan attack the WT? - 24/09/2009 08:38:43 PM 1540 Views
I can never decide what I think will happen - 24/09/2009 08:44:03 PM 1432 Views
Re: I can never decide what I think will happen - 24/09/2009 09:25:18 PM 1390 Views
I disagree, the Rebels are better protected - 24/09/2009 09:36:19 PM 1450 Views
I agree with you. Rebels are harder to take (rebels have Asha'man too) *NM* - 24/09/2009 09:59:10 PM 911 Views
So do the Tower Reds, only the Seanchan don't know that yet... - 25/09/2009 04:46:17 AM 1342 Views
Yet according to one of Min's visions, Carlinya gets made "property" - 29/09/2009 03:09:28 PM 1238 Views
Re: Yet according to one of Min's visions, Carlinya gets made "property" - 29/09/2009 03:23:45 PM 1360 Views
OK, I didn't remember the details correctly - 29/09/2009 03:38:16 PM 1374 Views
Re: OK, I didn't remember the details correctly - 29/09/2009 04:11:22 PM 1474 Views
Harnan's tattoo is of a hawk, not a raven - 29/09/2009 04:37:27 PM 1475 Views
Oops. Then no other interpretations. - 29/09/2009 04:51:07 PM 1406 Views
Potential for conflicting prophecies? - 26/09/2009 08:49:04 PM 1165 Views
no.. - 26/09/2009 09:12:52 PM 1277 Views
The title of book 13... - 24/09/2009 09:19:17 PM 1266 Views
Swing and a miss. - 24/09/2009 10:33:46 PM 1469 Views
As said - 25/09/2009 06:37:46 AM 1264 Views
Or maybe the fortress in the blight? - 25/09/2009 12:51:05 PM 1296 Views
Yes, those Towers... - 25/09/2009 03:10:40 PM 1363 Views
Seems unlikely to me. - 25/09/2009 01:44:27 PM 1383 Views
Yeah, that's possible. - 25/09/2009 03:11:33 PM 1367 Views
Egwene's surprising decision... - 25/09/2009 08:38:51 PM 1219 Views
I think it's an exaggeration - 25/09/2009 09:01:22 PM 1336 Views
Re: Egwene's surprising decision... - 26/09/2009 12:58:51 AM 1393 Views
The Seanchan attack will happen first - 24/09/2009 10:47:50 PM 1249 Views
I think Egwene is building up an immunity to forkroot. *NM* - 25/09/2009 02:03:58 AM 906 Views
I'm kinda hoping Mesaana hands them all in a basket to Moridin. - 25/09/2009 02:51:55 AM 1142 Views
Egwene's respect reminds me of Niall's comment to Morgase - 25/09/2009 03:39:19 AM 1320 Views
Both at once, I don't think it will be a neat A then B, or B then A - 25/09/2009 03:53:30 AM 1357 Views
How would they possibly hear of Turan in Arad Doman? - 25/09/2009 02:34:34 PM 1347 Views
Raken - they are used as messengers - 25/09/2009 02:43:29 PM 1279 Views
Egwene... surprised me. It was great. - 24/09/2009 08:49:36 PM 1227 Views
I didn't catch any hints as to Mesaana's identity. Were there any? - 24/09/2009 08:51:23 PM 1279 Views
Katerine is Black Ajah - 24/09/2009 10:48:14 PM 1362 Views
Also... this makes me miss RJ even more - 24/09/2009 08:52:52 PM 1606 Views
I experienced just the opposite - 25/09/2009 06:40:53 AM 1426 Views
Totally disagree - 25/09/2009 06:58:36 AM 1306 Views
This was a truely beautiful chapter *NM* - 24/09/2009 10:22:48 PM 869 Views
Really? - 24/09/2009 11:37:59 PM 1322 Views
Daaayyum - when did Elaida become such a baller/shot caller? - 24/09/2009 11:23:41 PM 1279 Views
In regards to Alviarin. - 25/09/2009 01:32:09 AM 1430 Views
Could Elaida pass a 4th Oath? - 25/09/2009 05:13:08 AM 1351 Views
The Black Ajah would never stand for it, even if the other sisters would - 25/09/2009 06:38:19 AM 1495 Views
And therein lies Elaida's genius... - 25/09/2009 07:08:48 PM 1459 Views
Fain as the source of much of the Tower's woes - 25/09/2009 05:30:49 AM 1311 Views
No one else thinks Fain has had any influence on Elaida's erratic behavior? *NM* - 25/09/2009 05:32:05 PM 896 Views
I agree. Fain is affecting her, for certain. NT *NM* - 28/09/2009 02:30:45 AM 932 Views
What about Mesaana? - 25/09/2009 06:03:41 PM 1215 Views
Mat vs Egwene - 25/09/2009 03:34:35 PM 1345 Views
Re: Mat vs Egwene - 25/09/2009 03:38:39 PM 1355 Views
Re: Mat vs Egwene - 25/09/2009 03:40:32 PM 1364 Views
Re: Mat vs Egwene - 25/09/2009 04:16:16 PM 1367 Views
We already saw Mat confront Egwene in Salidar. What more - 25/09/2009 04:18:21 PM 1478 Views
Re: We already saw Mat confront Egwene in Salidar. What more - 25/09/2009 04:37:04 PM 1375 Views
That's not his argument though - 25/09/2009 04:34:35 PM 1193 Views
Ah okay. - 25/09/2009 04:36:00 PM 1297 Views
She seemed okay with it in KoD - 25/09/2009 04:38:53 PM 1443 Views
I think... - 25/09/2009 03:47:26 PM 1449 Views
Nice ideas! *NM* - 25/09/2009 03:51:01 PM 1102 Views
That is really good idea - 25/09/2009 08:12:34 PM 1529 Views
Though... - 26/09/2009 01:32:18 PM 1397 Views
Re: Mat vs Egwene - 25/09/2009 06:15:56 PM 1217 Views
egwene and elaida's 4th oath - 25/09/2009 03:51:36 PM 1355 Views
Egwene's Hypocrisy here is astounding: - 29/09/2009 03:39:25 AM 1329 Views
Egwene and Mesaana - 25/09/2009 06:07:37 PM 1385 Views
Come now...even though Mesaana is whimpy for a Forsaken, she would wipe the floor with Egwene... - 25/09/2009 06:10:13 PM 1421 Views
Alright, I *may* have overlooked that significant point. - 25/09/2009 06:21:09 PM 1241 Views
Agreed - 26/09/2009 06:36:01 AM 1318 Views
Depends on where the battle takes place. TAR = Egwene win. - 02/10/2009 06:10:07 PM 1407 Views
Egwene would need to lead a circle or use an angreal to beat her. *NM* - 25/09/2009 06:31:42 PM 881 Views
Unless it was based on willpower as in a conflict within Tel'Aran'Rhiod - 25/09/2009 07:19:50 PM 1327 Views
Humph. - 26/09/2009 03:27:09 AM 1267 Views
She was overconfident - 26/09/2009 03:24:51 PM 1316 Views
A lie by Elaida? - 27/09/2009 02:31:36 PM 1527 Views
Re: A lie by Elaida? - 27/09/2009 02:50:49 PM 1330 Views
Re: A lie by Elaida? - 27/09/2009 03:01:06 PM 1245 Views
I don't think it covers things like that - 27/09/2009 04:10:05 PM 1311 Views
She believes what she said *NM* - 28/09/2009 04:51:52 AM 865 Views
Remember, perspective. - 29/09/2009 12:14:59 AM 1210 Views
It might well be true - 29/09/2009 12:38:20 AM 1314 Views
Well... that elicited quite a reaction. - 28/09/2009 06:25:52 AM 1168 Views
I had many of those same thoughts. - 28/09/2009 05:27:43 PM 1394 Views
Re: I had many of those same thoughts. - 28/09/2009 06:42:56 PM 1143 Views
Re: I had many of those same thoughts. - 28/09/2009 11:08:00 PM 1303 Views
I've just learned to skip any female POV's written by RJ - 29/09/2009 04:38:45 AM 1328 Views
Hmmm.... - 29/09/2009 05:30:44 AM 1395 Views
Re: Hmmm.... - 29/09/2009 06:26:17 AM 1386 Views
Ridiculous - 30/09/2009 12:34:07 AM 1199 Views
Very. - 30/09/2009 02:40:07 AM 1331 Views
Re: Hmmm.... - 30/09/2009 03:00:01 AM 1304 Views
Re: Hmmm.... - 30/09/2009 04:32:14 AM 1364 Views
Re: Hmmm.... - 01/10/2009 03:23:21 AM 1297 Views
Re: Hmmm.... - 01/10/2009 04:51:14 AM 1308 Views
Re: Hmmm.... - 03/10/2009 01:57:24 PM 1623 Views
That's Mesaana's purpose actually *NM* - 06/11/2009 07:03:12 AM 810 Views
Elaida, Formidable? - 29/09/2009 11:48:04 PM 1375 Views
How do you figure? - 30/09/2009 12:15:47 AM 1125 Views
Aside from successfuly orchastrate the coup what has she done? - 30/09/2009 12:35:07 AM 1315 Views
Re: Aside from successfuly orchastrate the coup what has she done? - 30/09/2009 02:29:37 AM 1237 Views
Broke the Black Ajah's hold on the Amyrlin seat??????? - 30/09/2009 06:09:08 PM 1211 Views
Ignore *NM* - 30/09/2009 06:20:12 PM 849 Views
Oh yeah, and... - 29/09/2009 04:22:57 AM 1437 Views
Egwene in this chapter... - 29/09/2009 05:04:35 AM 1361 Views
Re: Egwene in this chapter... - 29/09/2009 05:59:33 AM 1468 Views
Author thoughts - Audiobook versus reading - 29/09/2009 05:30:39 AM 1354 Views
Yes, I've felt very much the same *NM* - 29/09/2009 12:52:52 PM 974 Views
A lot of that is the narrator - 29/09/2009 04:36:47 PM 1409 Views
The Dark One's Touch - 30/09/2009 06:21:24 PM 1441 Views
Good point! *NM* - 30/09/2009 06:26:51 PM 886 Views
Re: The Dark One's Touch - 30/09/2009 06:44:53 PM 1211 Views
What about the person who has the ter'angreal dagger? - 30/09/2009 07:11:18 PM 1212 Views
Re: What about the person who has the ter'angreal dagger? - 30/09/2009 07:17:06 PM 1434 Views
The Irony of Elaida - 30/09/2009 11:10:08 PM 1338 Views
LOL, I agree. - 01/10/2009 02:47:18 AM 1301 Views

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