I'm having trouble understanding your interpretation of the "Nynaeve would do better still" argument.
We have two options:
1)Angreal are multipliers: So Elayne's strength gets multiplied by X, and this happens to be twice Nynaeve's strength. For Nynaeve herself, of course, multiplying her strength by X would mean access to even more of the OP.
2) Angreal are additive: there's a lot going for this, especially based on what we know about Seeds now. If so, Elayne's level+X is twice Nynaeve's strength. Obviously, Nynaeve herself would do better if X were added to her greater strength.
In neither scenario do we have to assume that angreal somehow work differently based on your strength. They either add or multiply, and they do so evenly for all channelers.
Multiplier model makes the bracelet vastly too powerful for Rand to have had any chance on the docks. For it to have made Moiraine stronger than her previous level it would have needed to multiplied her new strength by at least 6x (possibly more), but that would have made Lanfear like 5x Rands strength on the docks which seems like a lot even with the fat man angreal. Especially since she had the bracelet before he drew through his angreal.
Additive model has flaws as well,as I mentioned in my earlier post that it doesn't fully explain how the Turtle could make Elayne 2x Nynaeve and still be a "weak" angreal, in fact it would likely be stronger than the bracelet given what we know it will make Moiraine stronger than level 13 but seems unlikely that she would be much beyond that from the way it's phrased.
Perhaps there are both multipliers and additive angreal.
A multiplier is the only reasonable explanation if Nynaeve can get more out of the turtle than Elayne can.
I've considered Fionwe's statement for a while now. It's possible that Nynaeve getting more out of the turtle is merely because she is stronger, so 2x will get her more. It could also mean that stronger people can gain more, and thus a higher multiplier. We don't know. BS answered how these things work but as usual he second guessed himself about five times in his own answer and we all know he knows &&&& all about the Power. I mean, he's written the books and then he answers a question on sa'angreal and isn't even sure how much they benefit channelers. He's a moron.
So according to me there are two potential theories...
Lanfear 100 + turtle (2x ) = 200
Moiraine 80 + turtle (2x ) = 160
Lanfear 100 + turtle (3x ) = 300
Moiraine 80 + turtle (2x ) = 160
Of course, there is a chance that it is additive AND a strong channeler can get more out of it. Maybe Elayne can get 120 out of the turtle as an additive and Nynaeve can somehow pull 140 out of it. That would technically satisfy many criteria and explain Moiraine being at 66 and then stronger than before. Her angreal could move add perhaps 90 strength and make her 91, and if Lanfear used it, it would add 150 strength and make her 250.
Elayne describes the amount of saidar entering her as a torrent compared to what she is used to. She says she's twice as strong as Nynaeve and then in the same breath says that the angreal is not strong. She's not even impressed. It once again makes me think that this is further proof that all channelers don't differ by much, and that Lanfear differs from other women by a factor of 2x at the most. If Nynaeve was truly as strong as big groups of women, then twice her power would make Elayne into a living army, but it seems not to. It's strong hint that true strength lies in big mixed circles or perhaps with a good sa'angreal, which is why Demandred used both for the Last Battle.
The thing though is, how could Rand think that he could shield seven women holding the Power with his angreal? We know that using the bell curve they could all be close to half his effective strength. Sure, he can channel more than 100 saidin in raw power, but does this affect shielding? I've always believed that raw power is perhaps one area where shielding is different which is why women struggle to hold men. The 150 saidin connection is thicker to cut and also allows a bigger pull on the Source that strains women trying to hold them.
If the fat man allows him to shield them all then I think he and Lanfear were fighting at many times their potentials. If a 'not strong' angreal makes Elayne more than twice as strong and one of the strongest male sa'angreal ever allows Rand to hold as little as 10x a man's power, then the gap inside is very small.
To be honest, if you look at all of this, I don't think the system has been well thought out. It's clear that there are no detailed notes on this - Brandon even said so. It's likely a waste of time to invest in this topic because I think it's a rough and undeveloped part of the Power in the books. We can add it to our list of nerdy gripes about the series.
Fan of Lanfear
*NM*
- 20/01/2016 04:41:16 PM
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