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from the very beginning of this conversation I've been saying I'm theorizing darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 26/01/2016 04:09:19 PM

I find it beyond reason that the Forsaken use the exact same weave, or more to the point ONLY the exact same shielding weave as modern Aes Sedai. It's obvious that there are multiple ways to form weaves for pretty much any OP related feat, some more effective than others. Given that we've directly seen at least 3 occasions where a Forsaken clearly uses shielding to great effect over a stronger channeler (Lanfear v. Rand, Lanfear v. Asmodean and Graendal v. Aran'gar) it seems intuitively obvious that they are using techniques/weaves that are different from what Aes Sedai use.

I'm extrapolating from what we see from Berowyn's shield that flexibility in the shield is the key to this additional effectiveness, that does not mean that these shields are immediately flexible to the touch, only that they will bend rather than break when an appropriate amount of pressure is applied. In fact I'd say that I think if Nynaeve were to use Berowyn's weave against Berowyn we would not see the shield bend because Berowyn would not have the strength to apply the requisite pressure to force the shield. Perhaps Elayne or Egwene would be able to bend this shield but clearly they could not break through it. Perhaps if Nynaeve had used the same technique as Berowyn she could have held Logain with no problem, or perhaps this form of the weave is simply vastly more effective in blocking a woman from saidar and would be an epic failure in blocking saidin. It's not like Berowyn would have had tons of opportunity to practice shielding men. As I've said before, I suspect the existing weave the Aes Sedai use was probably used primarily to shield men and probably "perfected" by the Red, much like the Yellow "perfected" the Healing weaves all Aes Sedai used. After several thousand years it simply becomes part of the Aes Sedai standard set of weaves and no one thinks to tinker with it because they don't need too ... like so many Aes Sedai traditions they assume they've got the best solution and stubbornly refuse to attempt anything beyond.

Personally, I find it obvious that shielding men and shielding women would be more effective using different techniques. It's possible that Graendal used a totally different weave to cut off and shield Aran'gar than she used on Delana. Much like men use different weaves for Traveling than women use and the fact that there are many many weaves for Healing despite the fact that Aes Sedai only know and use the most basic rough forms.

So all of the quotes you keep throwing out are useless, because a shield is a shield until it comes across an unstoppable force. Think about a bow and arrow, the string on any given bow is obviously flexible, however the individual pulling it must be strong enough to draw the bow. To an individual too weak to move the bow the bow is essentially a solid object (thus Berowyn would be unable to bend Nynaeve's shield regardless of technique). To a person strong enough to draw the bow the string is a flexible piece of equipment, thus Nynaeve can and does bend Berowyn's shield. Just because something is described as a "wall" doesn't mean it's the same thing as something else described as a wall. Concrete and sheetrock can both be used to make walls, that doesn't mean they are the same quality.

Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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Angreal, Sa'angreal and Moiraine at 66 - 11/01/2016 08:53:23 AM 2122 Views
Or we can choose to assume Elayne is incorrect - 11/01/2016 03:50:14 PM 999 Views
Uhhh... - 12/01/2016 12:07:42 AM 1122 Views
Yet there are problems with either - 15/01/2016 08:52:04 PM 812 Views
Re: Yet there are problems with either - 16/01/2016 05:29:11 AM 1069 Views
Would you consider... - 17/01/2016 09:06:59 AM 934 Views
random thought on Shielding - 19/01/2016 07:34:20 PM 993 Views
You're forgetting the other side, though. - 19/01/2016 08:19:59 PM 1056 Views
yes but it doesn't proactively do this - 19/01/2016 10:06:25 PM 920 Views
Responding to a shield doesn't require proactiveness - 20/01/2016 05:53:24 AM 816 Views
it's a visualization thing really - 20/01/2016 04:39:08 PM 870 Views
Not the crux of the debate... - 21/01/2016 03:37:40 AM 958 Views
Not really though - 21/01/2016 05:00:34 PM 726 Views
I always explained it as - 21/01/2016 09:26:35 PM 961 Views
There's not much to go on since all the shields except Berowyn's are the same - 21/01/2016 09:55:14 PM 831 Views
That's precisely my point - 21/01/2016 10:09:02 PM 973 Views
now you are speculating based on a lack of evidence - 21/01/2016 10:39:13 PM 793 Views
There's actual evidence: - 22/01/2016 06:25:25 AM 984 Views
what's dense here is that you keep putting in quotes that don't support your position - 22/01/2016 03:28:16 PM 1106 Views
Whoa.. - 22/01/2016 04:24:19 PM 1052 Views
Not at all - 22/01/2016 05:03:50 PM 1001 Views
Wonderful - 22/01/2016 06:30:35 PM 976 Views
yup that's my argument. that and you're a dick so I'm done with this - 22/01/2016 06:46:23 PM 794 Views
Re: yup that's my argument. that and you're a dick so I'm done with this - 23/01/2016 02:35:33 PM 1090 Views
Petty much *NM* - 24/01/2016 02:50:32 PM 438 Views
Hmmm.... - 23/01/2016 03:06:15 PM 1039 Views
Let me clear this up - 25/01/2016 04:19:51 PM 1180 Views
Some more quotes - 25/01/2016 05:10:51 PM 940 Views
none of which I've denied or tried to prove otherwise - 25/01/2016 07:19:48 PM 1233 Views
Re: none of which I've denied or tried to prove otherwise - 26/01/2016 03:45:52 AM 1005 Views
Re: none of which I've denied or tried to prove otherwise - 26/01/2016 09:00:55 AM 1143 Views
Re: none of which I've denied or tried to prove otherwise - 26/01/2016 10:39:49 AM 939 Views
from the very beginning of this conversation I've been saying I'm theorizing - 26/01/2016 04:09:19 PM 845 Views
Oh well then I agree with you - 26/01/2016 08:50:55 AM 1043 Views
thanks - 26/01/2016 04:26:46 PM 1198 Views
Yes, but that's not what I'm arguing... - 16/01/2016 08:56:15 AM 777 Views
But additive doesn't explain buffers and being able to overdraw - 16/01/2016 03:02:33 PM 810 Views
Don't those two facts explain each other? - 16/01/2016 03:24:44 PM 847 Views
It actually seems counterintuitive to me - 19/01/2016 07:15:37 PM 791 Views
Simple - 19/01/2016 08:21:11 PM 913 Views
Not at all - 19/01/2016 10:17:39 PM 701 Views
Huh? - 20/01/2016 06:01:04 AM 916 Views
agree to disagree I suppose ... I don't see it this way *NM* - 20/01/2016 04:41:16 PM 495 Views
I didn't sense disagreement so much as confusion over my position. *NM* - 21/01/2016 12:01:16 AM 474 Views
Re: I didn't sense disagreement so much as confusion over my position. - 21/01/2016 02:07:21 AM 819 Views
Re: I didn't sense disagreement so much as confusion over my position. - 21/01/2016 03:32:59 AM 837 Views
I don't necessarily think that's true - 21/01/2016 05:07:40 PM 911 Views
I don't see how magnifiers solve this - 21/01/2016 10:01:17 PM 894 Views
Re: I don't see how magnifiers solve this - 21/01/2016 10:16:16 PM 838 Views
Uhhh... - 22/01/2016 06:51:11 AM 985 Views
Funny, I just saw this post - 17/09/2016 11:13:09 PM 704 Views
The very first chapter (the Prologue) disproves this - 03/10/2016 06:56:28 AM 778 Views
No it doesn't - 05/10/2016 12:47:03 AM 674 Views
Re: Don't those two facts explain each other? - 08/10/2016 05:06:53 AM 574 Views
Re: Yes, but that's not what I'm arguing... - 08/10/2016 04:52:06 AM 791 Views

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